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Old 08-22-2015, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Kūkiʻo, HI & Manhattan Beach, CA
2,627 posts, read 6,218,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Still a lot of guess work involved in that research. And, even to the extent of DNA results showing sub-Saharan African DNA, many assumptions not supported by concrete evidence. That explains why I have doubts. Even Ancestry.com acknowledges that it cannot establish a definitive link due to gaps in family history, which, as I mentioned in my earlier post, isn't exactly shocking.
Of course, if the Ancestry.com findings are correct, Obama's mother had at least 1/4096 (or 0.024%) African ancestry, which is fairly negligible. Many other so-called "white" folks in the United States probably have similar trace amounts of African ancestry, which might create a bit of a conundrum for those that wish to apply the "one-drop rule." In other words, the homegrown "white" folks in the United States just might be more "African American" than immigrants from South Africa.
The Genetic Ancestry of African Americans, Latinos, and European Americans Across the United States
A lot of Southern whites are a little bit black - The Washington Post
White? Black? A Murky Distinction Grows Still Murkier
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:20 PM
 
1,614 posts, read 1,216,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lantern400 View Post
Why do you doubt that he had slave ancestors on his
mother's side?
Why does it matter? Not every black can claim having slave relatives.
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Old 09-02-2015, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
11,665 posts, read 6,271,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv my dayton View Post
Why does it matter? Not every black can claim having slave relatives.
The OVERWHELMING majority of African Americans (if not every single African American as the term was originally understood) has slave ancestors. Even to the extent that African Americans in the US were not enslaved (though I remind people that even northern states were once big on slavery), there has been so much intermarriage between different groups of African Americans, that I'd find it hard to believe that any African American alive today doesn't have any slave ancestors.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:05 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
.
In England most people have no problem what-so-ever accepting the offspring of Caribbean/African/Indian people as British. That's what they are and they don't even feel the need to hyphenate their identity, they are just British.

..

To my knowledge no one rejects Americans of African descent as Americans. They are seen as an AMERICAN group, with a rich heritage which has had TREMENDOUS impact on what being AMERICAN is, dominating that nation's music traditions, and having strong impact on its speech patterns. Playing a role in crafting institutions, which have been used by other groups, such as immigrants, gays, and women. Indeed injecting a sense into the American thought that it is a MULTI ethnic/cultural nation, and this being a STRENGTH.

The USA prides itself as a nation with immigrant roots and as such in areas with high immigrant populations, there are definite ethnic identities. Italians and the Irish definitely retain some ethnic identity, even though the vast majority do not have any ties to their ancestral lands, nor do they practice any aspect of those cultures. Even in the Appalachian regions the locals have a strong sense of being Scots-Irish, these being descendants of a 17th C migration.

British is a generic national term like American. Ask non white Britons if they are "English", and it is possible that the vast majority will say no. Over 90% of them are born in England. English has become an ethnic term, as is Welsh, and Scottish.

There is a definite Indian, Pakistani, African, and even Caribbean identity in the UK. Being British is what binds the whole, just as being American does.

There is also a definite sense of being Black. Race is a powerful social construct in the UK. In fact of the 2 million blacks in the UK 85% of them, for census purposes, self identify as either "African British", or "Caribbean British". One can readily collect data on the various ethnic groups in the UK and can determine their socio economic attainment (Indians above native English, Africans/Caribbean below, and Pakistanis/Bangladeshis at the bottom). African/Caribbean blacks are MORE likely to be incarcerated relative to British whites, than is the case for black Americans vs. white Americans. Despite the fact that the UK does NOT have a prison industrial complex as does the USA!

So to claim that one is British, with no ethnic qualifiers, is pure nonsense. The UK, in fact, now prides itself in being more "tolerant" (I guess still trying to accept diversity), than any other European nation. It is in fact the European nation where non whites have achieved the greatest level of upward mobility.

In addition, Latin America isn't the halcyon place that you always pretend that it is. Journey to every where in Latin America, and the most African, and most Indian looking people are at the BOTTOM of society. And there are definite identities surrounding that, even if elites wish to squash such discussion. Latin America has ALL the issues of racism that one can find in Europe and in North America!

Last edited by caribny; 09-22-2015 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:16 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
From my experience, they see themselves as British and most other British people accept them as that. .. In fact, one of the issues France is having with some Muslims doesn't has anything to do with their looks or race and everything to do with their reluctance to culturally become French. Americans may have issues seeing a black as charcoal guy simply as French, but that's more of a US issue due to the racial undercurrent that pemeates much of everything in the US. Many Americans still have a hard time seeing past skin color.

Utter nonsense. France is one of the most RACIST countries in Europe. Like Latin Americans, they have developed a well orchestrated propaganda to pretend otherwise, and to squash all discussion on this topic.

France has had race riots. Those rioting are NOT immigrants. It is the grand children of immigrants, who have developed an oppositional identity BECAUSE they are REJECTED because they are NOT "French" in the way that the French want them to be. Among these are people of WEST African stock and ANTILLEANS! NOT just North Africans.

France does NOT give ethnic minorities space to develop their identities, and to mobilize to resolve societal problems the way that one can see in the USA, Canada, the UK, and probably the Netherlands.

There is honesty about racism in the USA to a greater degree than there is in places like France and Latin America, because the strong ethnic identities allows minority groups to mobilize and to give voice.

In Latin America we have light skinned people screaming that there is no racism, while denying darker skinned people the right to discuss a social phenomenon which affects THEM! Now that there is mobilization in countries like Brazil, we are hearing all about the hypocrisy of Latin America. Ditto for France.

Last edited by caribny; 09-22-2015 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:27 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Lantern400 View Post
What's the reason for that? None of the white people I know (including my family) call themselves European, but they always identify as Italian, German, Polish, French, whatever country in Europe their family came from.

I guess history isn't your strong point.


1. The countries which exist in contemporary Africa didn't exist in the 17th and 18th centuries during the slave trade.

2. The knowledge of the specific ethnic identities has been wiped out, so slave descended blacks, have no idea what their African ancestries were, though DNA ancestral tests addresses that to some degree.

3. Slaves of different ethnic groups were lumped together, BEATEN or even KILLED, if they continued to overtly practice aspects of their SPECIFIC African ethnic cultures.


4. One of the most horrendous systems of INSTITUTIONALIZED bigotry was practiced in the USA up to around the early 70s, with strong vestiges of this still remaining. So any ethnic identity was replaced by a generic identity as blacks.

5. Black American intellectuals developed the term African American to group these people as an ethnic group, rather than merely as a skin color. The term African was injected because what united all of these peoples was a common African ancestry (occurring in varying degrees).

6. The vast majority of black Americans prefer to be called Black American. In fact a comedian even had a joke that any white person, approaching a black person, calling them African American, didn't have too many black friends. African American is a PC term.

So don't ask stupid questions as to why black Americans don't call themselves Congolese, Nigerian, Liberian, or Senegalese.
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Old 09-22-2015, 11:29 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,925,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv my dayton View Post
Cant we just call one another American? We usually can tell from ones appearance what they are. We have some of the dumbest logic on the plant. Humans are humans but we still seem to require specifics when its just doesnt matter nor is it important.

And how do you define American? Blonde hair, apple pie, beef and potatoes, and country western music?

There are too many different "Americas" for one generic term to apply to all.

Leave that nonsense to the French who tell kids in Guadeloupe and Martinique that their ancestors were Gauls, and then scream all sorts of obscenities if the response, was no, that their ancestors were ENSLAVED by Gauls.
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Old 09-23-2015, 05:25 PM
 
177 posts, read 152,724 times
Reputation: 931
OMG - so much ignorance.

Native Americans ARE NOT Asian - they don't come from Asia.

There also is no such thing as 'RACE' other than an archaic designation that we still use, based upon historically inaccurate science.

The term' African American' refers to 'black people' of African Descent within the US. It is often used ignorantly and thoughtlessly by others to describe anyone living in the US who appears to be of African Descent.

An Asian person in the US is not 'Chinese American' unless he has has become an American Citizen and is descended from China.

Obama is the first African President because he is not descended from Slaves and thus does not have the typical African American historic context, but as an African American man, has experienced his life similarly to African Americans who are descended from slaves due to systemic racism.

South Africans, regardless of what colour their skin is, are South Africans. Same with Kenyans, Egytians, Somolians etc. Yes, there are 'white people' who live in most countries of the world are have become naturalised citizens.

There is no such thing as a pure anything. Genetically, it is foolish to judge a person's 'Race', by their skin colour; like a light skinned African American who can pass as 'white', may have more 'African genetics' within them, than someone who is far darker. Likewise, a person who considers themselves 'White' may have less 'European Genes' than someone who is dark skinned.

The moral of the story and the thread, is simply, don't make statements of fact, when fact is the furthest from the content of your post.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:43 AM
 
Location: Poshawa, Ontario
2,986 posts, read 3,318,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
Why not just call them "White African-American"?
Why not just call yourself "American"? After all, the only person who truly gives a rat's ass where you came from before moving to America is YOU.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:07 PM
 
6,300 posts, read 3,566,992 times
Reputation: 22002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Concaine View Post
OMG - so much ignorance.

Native Americans ARE NOT Asian - they don't come from Asia./
Where in the world did you get that notion?



Archaeological Dig Shows Native Americans First Came From Asia | TIME.com

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Native-...lar-appearance

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-arti...ican-migration
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