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Old 03-17-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Triad, NC
47 posts, read 26,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
This is the big DISCONNECT which invalidates Pan Africanism and the disconnect between Afro-Americans and Africans in many cases..A Nigerian friend explained to me that most of the world thinks in terms of ethnic and CULTURE differences FIRST...He said only Americans and South Africans think in terms of race FIRST.

In parts of the world where Blacks are marginalized because of their "blackness" thus "otherness" black identity is in the forefront of primary identity...

In majority black societies in Africa everyone is black so black means nothing and ethnic differences are the forefront of primary identity.

Americans are big into heritage and racial background as in African-American, Irish-American Italian-American.. People from the respective countries in Africa, Ireland, Italy are thinking they are all Americans why are they saying Italy, Ireland etc. ? In their mind there is nothing CULTURAL about them except being an American..

Because of the history of racism, discrimination and deliberate exclusion of blacks in America, not being seen as fellow Americans...A culture of opposition has developed to a degree in black america...The primary identity formation is one of race, based on what was done to blacks by others because of race..

This alienation causes some blacks to have a romantic identification with Africa and fall into Pan African ism
and Afro Centricism. They may feel a great distance and op positional between them and whites but fail to
realize that the sub-culture of opposition is still culturally American...

From a cultural standpoint, New World Blacks are a Western people with African isms embedded in their
various cultures, but not Africans...As one African told me, they have the PURE BLACK system of doing things.

Pan African ism fails to take into account what is shared by black people and what is NOT shared on a global scale..
I agree with you almost completely except that the reason "black/blackness" doesnt mean much because everyone is "black" . The idea of people being "white"/"black" is western cooked up nonsense which doesn't have any meaning in their respective countries. Part of people's identity is their language. There is no "black" language. Part of it is their customs. There is no "black" custom etc

People like supreme mega man are making an emotional argument and not one based on reality.
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Old 03-17-2016, 07:50 PM
 
691 posts, read 920,312 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennedinho View Post
I agree with you almost completely except that the reason "black/blackness" doesnt mean much because everyone is "black" . The idea of people being "white"/"black" is western cooked up nonsense which doesn't have any meaning in their respective countries. Part of people's identity is their language. There is no "black" language. Part of it is their customs. There is no "black" custom etc

People like supreme mega man are making an emotional argument and not one based on reality.
Right, the identities of "black" and "white" originated when RACE-BASED slavery was instituted in the New
World..When it dawned on the European Powers that African slavery was profitable, people who were of different ethnic groups: Yoruba, Mandingo, Fula, Mende, Temne Soso etc. who were captured and sent to
the New World settlements were labeled as "black" and the European colonists labeled themselves as "white". I think basically before humans encountered other "races" they thought of themselves by national
origin or ethnic group.

In the area now known as the United States,in particular after Bacon's Rebellion the aristocrats instituted a caste system based strictly on race with labels at the time of "white" "black" and "red"...This race problem
which is really a "white" problem ( fear of genetic annihilation) was created on purpose based to divide and conquer. In Bacon's rebellion Blacks, Whites and Indians rebelled so the ruling class brought off poor whites and said "you are white like us, so watch those "Blacks" and "Reds."


So now in the United States you have a highly racialist culture with people saying "black" "white"
"black music" , "black customs" "black english" etc. American racism was developed on purpose.

For example, a Dutch European man came to the U.S. and had to fill out forms which had the classification of "White" he said, He never thought of himself as a "White" man until he came to the United States,he had always thought of himself as Dutch as opposed to British,French or Spanish etc.

I have LIVED with West Africans, so I KNOW that they think of themselves by ethnic identity and language
FIRST as their primary identity. When people say "BLACK' in the United States it is assumed they are
referring to people who are Americans who are descended from African slaves in varying degrees.

In monochromatic indigenous societies,there is no use for "race", when you have non-monochromatic, non-indigenous settler societies with a dominate group then race is used to control populations.
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Old 03-17-2016, 08:15 PM
 
2,344 posts, read 952,068 times
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You know it just dawned on me that the United States is older than most modern day African nations.

We have been American black people longer than they have been "Nigerian" or "Senegalese" etc.
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Old 03-17-2016, 09:24 PM
 
691 posts, read 920,312 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
You know it just dawned on me that the United States is older than most modern day African nations.

We have been American black people longer than they have been "Nigerian" or "Senegalese" etc.
True, but they have been Yoruba, Hausa-Fulani Ibo or Wolof, Mandingo, Pular which is older and longer than the United States,Nigeria or Senegal.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,648 posts, read 27,082,820 times
Reputation: 9580
[quote=SuperiorMegaman;43378925]
Quote:


Actually it does. Its a general term. Black people just need to do more research and see where there heritage lies. Hint: its not in the American south.
As to our history as it pertains to America, yes it is. The vast majority (like 95% or higher) will never visit a country in Africa or relocate to Africa. There is a nice little romance but sorry, we can't just pick an African culture and country and say this is our heritage. We are our own people over here now and this is no disrespect to Africa. But it is what it is. BTW, I despise the term African American. Just say Black (though I have problems with that as well) or just simply American.
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Old 03-19-2016, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
18,648 posts, read 27,082,820 times
Reputation: 9580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
True, but they have been Yoruba, Hausa-Fulani Ibo or Wolof, Mandingo, Pular which is older and longer than the United States,Nigeria or Senegal.
Great point. I can understand "Nigerian-American". But when you break it down, I'm quite sure they would go by Fulani even over Nigerian and Ovimbundu over Angolan. Black Americans have no idea what they were before this trade as to pinpoint which is which in their lineage. Nor do we actually care to do so. Well me personally. Hell we are so mixed up even within our own selves let alone with europeans or asians or native americans, or w/e to even figure out just one particular culture. But again, I can at least understand Nigerian-American. At least it speaks on a nationality. There is no such nation as African. Even Asian-Americans know their nationality and that's what they refer to more than just Asian from my talks with them.
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Old 03-20-2016, 12:06 PM
 
2,344 posts, read 952,068 times
Reputation: 1789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
True, but they have been Yoruba, Hausa-Fulani Ibo or Wolof, Mandingo, Pular which is older and longer than the United States,Nigeria or Senegal.
Maybe. But we're a 350 year old tribe of black people that's native to the U.S and has been around longer than Nigerians have been Nigerian.
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Old 03-30-2016, 12:57 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
For example, a Dutch European man came to the U.S. and had to fill out forms which had the classification of "White" he said, He never thought of himself as a "White" man until he came to the United States,he .


That is because he views being Dutch as monolithic. They have a different classification for Dutch born people whose origins are outside of Europe.


That same Dutch person, walking down the streets of Amsterdam, will very quickly group people from Curacao, and the Congo as "black".


The USA was diverse from its ORIGINS, given that the European invaders encountered Native Americans, and very quickly brought in slaves from Africa. So the white American has a more highly defined sense of being "white" than do their counterparts in Europe.


And despite their pretense, so too do white Brazilians from the elite and upper middle classes.
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:01 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
Reputation: 3799
[quote=Spade;43418307]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorMegaman View Post

) or just simply American.


Except that no one is just "American", especially some one who is visibly non white.


A visit to a Trump rally will quickly dispel that myth. When they say they want America to be great again, and they want back THEIR America, they don't mean those whose ancestors have visible signs of sub Saharan African ancestry. They refer to the USA of 1955, not that of 2000!
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Old 03-30-2016, 01:11 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
Reputation: 3799
[quote

Creoles live in more than Louisiana, and yes, I am perfectly certain that I am black. The point I was making was that I can't pull a Rachel Dolezal and walk into a room and say I'm white and reap the benefits of being white. I wouldn't be seen as white even if I were 50% white--or even 75% white!. And yes, a lot of Black people call their hair nappy--I could just as easily said wooly, kinky or 4c. You just made a generalized statement. How many black people do you know?[/quote]



While all that is true, and the notion that a visibly African descended person in the USA, who isn't fabulously wealthy or famous, is not merely "American", they reality is that you are of African DESCENT, and NOT African.


I don't object to the term "African American", as I see it as describing an ethnic group with its own heritage, and history that evolved from 400 years of existence in the USA. But the dominant term is "American", with the "African" describing the kind of American the person is.
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