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Old 06-04-2016, 01:55 PM
 
329 posts, read 244,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You seem to be a bunch of theory and rhetoric. Do you actually own a business, or are you one of those dreamers? That rhetoric that you chat is so "1970", when we were waving fists in the air.


If in the 150 years since slavery ended black Americans haven't been able to practice this group economics, then why will they be able to do so with people who are radically different, and who live thousands of miles away?


Understand something. A Chinese American is usually one 1-3 generations separated from the people in China.


Black Americans experienced a far more radical separation, and this rupture has been in place for over 200 years. So you cannot compare Chinese Americans with black Americans.


Black Americans and Africans might as well be 2 different races. In fact few black Americans can be mistaken for an African.




Please indicate in what situation have you seen black Americans cooperate to build this utopian society that you describe.


Asians and others have business driven cultures. They know how to cooperate with each other. They aren't afraid to talk business. Blacks of the Diaspora are not like this. We will sooner support people from other groups than our own.


Why don't you chat with black business owners and ask them about the challenges that they face dealing with blacks? In fact I know several black property owners who are reluctant to deal with other blacks. And these include American black owners. The stuff that black tenants will bring to them they would never bring to a non black property owner.

Again, we're going in circles. Talk about theory and rhetoric, you're doing the same. Who said anything about building a utopian society? Not I. You're making presumptions based on your experiences (as am I) in which we've already discussed has guided our different perspectives. 150 years after slavery and Black Americans hadn't gotten it together? You're starting to sound like a white supremacist lol. We've already discussed the likes of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Ok, Rosewood, Harlem etc. These were places where Black Americans prospered in spite of systematic racism. One could make the argument that Black Americans were forced to work together because of segregation which is why they developed the way they did but I don't see any reason why this can't happen today.

Have you ever asked yourself why those wealthy African and Black American business owners you've dealt with preferred to work with whites? I have a pretty good guess, I believe it's because whites (Americans and Europeans) tend to have access to most of the world's capital and resources. This is pure speculation on my part of as to why of course.

According to the 2016 Nielsen report Black Americans have the spending power of 1.2 trillion dollars, which would make us the 15th largest economy in the world. There's no reason that the money Black Americans used to buy things that benefit other groups can't be used to benefit Black Americans and in turn benefit those that have connections with us. Instead many of us like to make excuses as to why we can't. If Black Americans and Africans (West and Central) had the capital and owned resources there wouldn't be a need to go to others to do business except to expand. Exactly how other groups do.

My opinion is that it will take conditioning from childhood of the next generation to want and prefer to work in their own best interests that benefit those that look like them and to whom they're descended.

You keep making references to business owners you've dealt with which in my opinion is a very narrow perspective as you hadn't met all the African and Black business owners across the globe. I've met quite a few African and Black Americans where I Iive and they work together just fine. Again, we're coming from two completely different experiences.

Last edited by jkc2j; 06-04-2016 at 03:13 PM..
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:35 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,932,888 times
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Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Again, we're going in circles. Talk about theory and rhetoric, you're doing the same. Who said anything about building a utopian society? Not I. You're making presumptions based on your experiences (as am I) in which we've already discussed has guided our different perspectives. 150 years after slavery and Black Americans hadn't gotten it together? You're starting to sound like a white supremacist lol. We've already discussed the likes of Black Wall Street in Tulsa, Ok, Rosewood, Harlem etc. These were places where Black Americans prospered in spite of systematic racism. One could make the argument that Black Americans were forced to work together because of segregation which is why they developed the way they did but I don't see any reason why this can't happen today.

Have you ever asked yourself why those wealthy African and Black business owners you've dealt with preferred to work with whites? I have a pretty good guess, I believe it's because whites(Americans and Europeans) tend to have access to most capital and resources. This is pure speculation on my part of course.

According to the 2016 Nielsen report Black Americans have the spending power of 1.2 trillion dollars, which would make us the 12 largest economy in the world. There's no reason that the money Black Americans use to things that benefit other groups can't be used to benefit Black Americans and in turn benefit those that have connections with us.

My opinion is that it will take conditioning from childhood of the next generation to want and prefer to work in their own best interests that benefit those that look like them and to whom they're descended.

You keep making references to business owners you've dealt with which in my opinion is a very narrow perspective as you hadn't met all the African and Black business owners across the globe. I've met quite a few African and Black Americans where I Iive and they work together just fine. Again, we're coming from two completely different experiences.


Its amazing how one can tell a person's age by what they say. A young person has yet to experience life, so sees the world in terms of what they think that it should be, rather than what it is.


Well in order to change the world you need to understand how it works.




Yes you are correct that wealthy blacks (from all parts of the world) prefer to integrate themselves into the mainstream, where they will have more access to resources. They have businesses to run, and payrolls to meet, so don't have time for fantasy chatter.


In addition unlike other minority groups, we blacks don't respect each other. We have this need to feel better than other blacks, while simultaneously pulling down those who we suspect are better off than we are. As a result we don't trust one another enough to take risks with each other.


This isn't based on my experiences. This is based on data that even you allude to about black expenditures.


Black Americans have huge spending power. And yet black American wealth is abysmally small. Clearly the vast majority of that spending power is entering other communities. Of the $1.2 trillion which is spent, how much do you think remains within the various black communities? Very little. How much of it is used to employ blacks? Not much more, as we cannot even mobilize ourselves to leverage what we spend to change the behaviors of the non blacks who we buy goods/services from.


Do you know that the median wealth of black households is less than $20k. That means that 50% of blacks have less than $20k when one even includes the equity that they have in their homes. Black unemployment is more than double that of whites, with even Hispanic immigrants being less likely to be unemployed. And in fact fewer than 60% of black males of working age have jobs.


So when we juxtapose the tremendous spending power of blacks, with our dire condition, quite clearly our spending is empowering OTHER communities, and not ours.


I will challenge each and every black person to calculate what % of their expenditures remains within the black community after two cycles. By this I mean that if a black rents from another black, what % of that rent, once paid, is spent on goods/services provided by another person.


So really who cares about the mythologies of the Black Wall Street, etc. There were 10million blacks in the USA when these communities existed, yet we probably cannot name more than 5 of the type. And in fact so vulnerable were even these relatively affluent blacks, that when their communities were destroyed, they lacked the ability to recreate them. In fact no one even knows what happened to these people after this destruction occurred.


Black prosperity peaked in 2000, and has declined since. What made 2000 better than before or after is that this was the time when the highest % of blacks had jobs, and the highest % of blacks were engaged in management and professional services, almost always either in the public or corporate sectors.


What is clear is that entrepreneurial activity has played a minimal role in acquiring black wealth, or even income, beyond the individual successes of a few.


It will be a better use of your time to admit to these realities, and to figure out how these might be overcome.
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Old 06-04-2016, 04:22 PM
 
329 posts, read 244,595 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Its amazing how one can tell a person's age by what they say. A young person has yet to experience life, so sees the world in terms of what they think that it should be, rather than what it is.


Well in order to change the world you need to understand how it works.




Yes you are correct that wealthy blacks (from all parts of the world) prefer to integrate themselves into the mainstream, where they will have more access to resources. They have businesses to run, and payrolls to meet, so don't have time for fantasy chatter.


In addition unlike other minority groups, we blacks don't respect each other. We have this need to feel better than other blacks, while simultaneously pulling down those who we suspect are better off than we are. As a result we don't trust one another enough to take risks with each other.


This isn't based on my experiences. This is based on data that even you allude to about black expenditures.


Black Americans have huge spending power. And yet black American wealth is abysmally small. Clearly the vast majority of that spending power is entering other communities. Of the $1.2 trillion which is spent, how much do you think remains within the various black communities? Very little. How much of it is used to employ blacks? Not much more, as we cannot even mobilize ourselves to leverage what we spend to change the behaviors of the non blacks who we buy goods/services from.


Do you know that the median wealth of black households is less than $20k. That means that 50% of blacks have less than $20k when one even includes the equity that they have in their homes. Black unemployment is more than double that of whites, with even Hispanic immigrants being less likely to be unemployed. And in fact fewer than 60% of black males of working age have jobs.


So when we juxtapose the tremendous spending power of blacks, with our dire condition, quite clearly our spending is empowering OTHER communities, and not ours.


I will challenge each and every black person to calculate what % of their expenditures remains within the black community after two cycles. By this I mean that if a black rents from another black, what % of that rent, once paid, is spent on goods/services provided by another person.


So really who cares about the mythologies of the Black Wall Street, etc. There were 10million blacks in the USA when these communities existed, yet we probably cannot name more than 5 of the type. And in fact so vulnerable were even these relatively affluent blacks, that when their communities were destroyed, they lacked the ability to recreate them. In fact no one even knows what happened to these people after this destruction occurred.


Black prosperity peaked in 2000, and has declined since. What made 2000 better than before or after is that this was the time when the highest % of blacks had jobs, and the highest % of blacks were engaged in management and professional services, almost always either in the public or corporate sectors.


What is clear is that entrepreneurial activity has played a minimal role in acquiring black wealth, or even income, beyond the individual successes of a few.


It will be a better use of your time to admit to these realities, and to figure out how these might be overcome.


Throwing the age argument in there I see lol. Age doesn't nessarily mean wisdom as you may know.

Black Americans have the capacity to change our economic condition overnight. The issue again is there's too many of us that make excuses as to why we can't. Whatever is stopping wealthy Black Americans like Opera, Bob Johnson, Beyonce etc from investing in the communites from which birth them is beyond me. With the amount of Black American entertainers, athletes and professionals we have in this country we shoud've has a Black Wells Fargo, Home Depot, Caribbean Cruise line, Verizon, IBM long ago. Call me an idealist but please believe there are some in my generation like myself that seek to change these things.

Last edited by jkc2j; 06-04-2016 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:46 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,932,888 times
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Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Throwing the age argument in there I see lol. Age doesn't nessarily mean wisdom as you may know.

Black Americans have the capacity to change our economic condition overnight. The issue again is there's too many of us that make excuses as to why we can't. Whatever is stopping wealthy Black Americans like Opera, Bob Johnson, Beyonce etc from investing in the communites from which birth them is beyond me. With the amount of Black American entertainers, athletes and professionals we have in this country we shoud've has a Black Wells Fargo, Home Depot, Caribbean Cruise line, Verizon, IBM long ago. Call me an idealist but please believe there are some in my generation like myself that seek to change these things.


Put it this way, I have had 30 years to experience more in life than you have had. This includes the arrogance of being young. Yes we all went through that stage.


Now part of your arrogance is the fact that you seem to think that your ideas are unique. Your ideas are almost 100 years old. I know that you have heard of Marcus Garvey.


Wealthy blacks made their money, just as wealthy people from other groups did. In most instances it wasn't just from blacks. Look at Oprah's audiences, and also note that she only gained access to them because white gate keepers were sufficiently impressed with her ability to attract the audiences that their advertisers wanted.


Bob Johnson made money when he sold his company to Viacom. Few of his BET advertisers were black companies. Beyoncé makes money from every one, and I suspect that most who attend her concerts aren't blacks. The athletes make money for playing for white owned teams.


So why are black people always telling other blacks what they ought to do with their money, when they played little role in these people make that money?


They can do as they wish with the money that they made. They have no obligation to invest in risky black ventures.


Now as to black owned banks. Well we have had many of those, with most now bankrupt, or absorbed by other banks. These banks have limited branch/ATM networks, and don't offer the range of products that the larger banks can. Their lending practices are even more conservative than the main stream banks, due to the high levels of loans in default, and their limited deposit base (black folks lack the disposable income to save large amounts).


This is what I mean about age. You might be the smartest person out, but you haven't had enough experience to know what is real, and what is idealistic.


Blacks don't have the time for pipe dreams, which is why the vast majority support Hillary and not Bernie.
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Old 06-06-2016, 11:34 PM
 
329 posts, read 244,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Put it this way, I have had 30 years to experience more in life than you have had. This includes the arrogance of being young. Yes we all went through that stage.


Now part of your arrogance is the fact that you seem to think that your ideas are unique. Your ideas are almost 100 years old. I know that you have heard of Marcus Garvey.


Wealthy blacks made their money, just as wealthy people from other groups did. In most instances it wasn't just from blacks. Look at Oprah's audiences, and also note that she only gained access to them because white gate keepers were sufficiently impressed with her ability to attract the audiences that their advertisers wanted.


Bob Johnson made money when he sold his company to Viacom. Few of his BET advertisers were black companies. Beyoncé makes money from every one, and I suspect that most who attend her concerts aren't blacks. The athletes make money for playing for white owned teams.


So why are black people always telling other blacks what they ought to do with their money, when they played little role in these people make that money?


They can do as they wish with the money that they made. They have no obligation to invest in risky black ventures.


Now as to black owned banks. Well we have had many of those, with most now bankrupt, or absorbed by other banks. These banks have limited branch/ATM networks, and don't offer the range of products that the larger banks can. Their lending practices are even more conservative than the main stream banks, due to the high levels of loans in default, and their limited deposit base (black folks lack the disposable income to save large amounts).


This is what I mean about age. You might be the smartest person out, but you haven't had enough experience to know what is real, and what is idealistic.


Blacks don't have the time for pipe dreams, which is why the vast majority support Hillary and not Bernie.

You kinda lost me after claiming that I'm being arrogant. Didn't know having an opinion about Black issues would warrant that label. If that's the case then I guess you're arrogant as well, especially when talking about your age as if that makes your point of view superior. Two adults can have a disagreement without resorting to name calling but I guess at your age you hadn't learn to be cordial when having discussions.

Who said my views were unique? Most of my views come directly from people like Marcus Garvey, Dr. Claude Anderson, Dr. Amos Wilson etc. Thanks for pointing that out to me though.

No one is trying to tell Black people how to spend their money, but you do realize that in cooperative economics you're looking at the long term benefits for all within said group. Being a business owner (as you say) you of all people should know this. Circulating the money within the black community allows businesses within these communities to prosper. It's that simple. Asians do it, Hispanics, Jews etc. You have to create businesses and for those businesses to employ people within the community or else you're looking at a state of perpetual economic dependency. If Blacks don't own anything thing or produce anything how do you suppose Blacks become economically independent?

Oprah got her education at Tennessee State University which is an HBCU. She got her first job in broadcasting at WVOL which is a Black owned urban am radio station in Nashville. Most of her early development stemmed directly from the black community.

BET would have never been what it was without the Black audience.

Beyoncé's career was started with having a primarily Black audience. The mainstream didn't take notice until the Black community made her popular. So yeah, they can thank their success in partial due to the support of the community from which they started.

My question to you is if not cooperative economics then what's the solution for Blacks on the continent and the diaspora to build themselves up economically? Since you seem to have all the answers I'm curious to know. Seems all you're doing is giving your opinion as to why it wouldn't work rather than offer plausible solutions.

Last edited by jkc2j; 06-07-2016 at 01:02 AM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
You kinda lost me after claiming that I'm being arrogant. Didn't know having an opinion about Black issues would warrant that label. If that's the case then I guess you're arrogant as well, especially when talking about your age as if that makes your point of view superior. Two adults can have a disagreement without resorting to name calling but I guess at your age you'd hadn't learn to be cordial when having discussions.

Who said my views were unique? Most of my views come directly from people like Marcus Garvey, Dr. Claude Anderson, Dr. Amos Wilson etc. Thanks for pointing that out to me though.

No one is trying to tell Black people how to spend their money, but you do realize that in cooperative economics you're looking at the long term benefits for all within said group. Being a business owner (as you say) you of all people should know this. Circulating the money within the black community allows businesses within these communities to prosper. It's that simple. Asians do it, Hispanics, Jews etc. You have to create businesses and those businesses employ people within the community or else you're looking at a state of perpetual economic dependency. If Blacks don't own anything thing or produce anything how do you suppose Blacks become economically independent?

Oprah got her education at Tennessee State University which is an HBCU. She got her first job in broadcasting at WVOL which was a urban am radio station in Nashville. Most of her early development stemmed directly from the black community.

BET would have never been what it was without the Black audience.

Beyoncé's career was started with having a primarily Black audience. The mainstream didn't take notice until the Black community made her popular. So yeah, they can thank their success in partial due to the support of the community from which they started.

My question to you is if not cooperative economics then what's the solution for Blacks on the continent and the diaspora to build themselves up economically? Since you seem to have all the answers I'm curious to know. Seems all you're doing is giving your opinion as to why it wouldn't work rather than offer plausible solutions.


Your arrogance comes, not from having an opinion, but in your insistence that things can "just happen".


If they can just happen, then why haven't they already happened? You weren't the first person to have your ideas, so did you ever stop to think what happened?


It would be better if you analyzed the UNDERLYING reasons why it isn't happening, and beyond some shallow "blame whitey". You aren't doing this, so that makes you arrogant in that you dismiss the experiences of others who tried to do this, and failed. Including the same people who you mention.


Now aside from writing books, what has Claude Anderson achieved? Does he own a company with 1.000 employees, based on his application of Cooperative Economics? The man is just peddling books, and yes I have heard of him. Not saying that he is a bad man. Just saying that he has failed at the idea that he peddles as the solution. And he has set the stage for all sorts of frauds to peddle dreams to vulnerable people. I can mention names, but will not do so.


Tennessee didn't make Oprah rich. Its her high level of success, in Chicago, the 3rd largest media market which set the stage for her going national. Had she remained in Tennessee, she would have remained an upper middle class woman, forever watching her ratings, and fearing that she would be axed, as she got older and fatter.


Ditto Beyoncé. If she just depended on the black markets she would have disappeared, just like so many others. Watch Unsung on TV One if you doubt this. Its her ability to draw audiences of millions, which is what made her rich.


Don't even get into BET, because they single handedly did a lot of damage to black people. Bob Johnson was a pimp who peddled poison to blacks, so that he could sell ads to whites. I blame him for the destruction of black culture, every time I see a kid with pants down to his knees muttering some filth denigrating black women, or extolling violence, or justifying the "N" word.


I mean what people refer to themselves by a name which was intended to demean them? And the resurgence of the "good hair" and light skinned complex is a phenomenon that BET was also guilty of peddling. By the late 70s we had almost gotten over this. By the 90s it was terrifying in how firmly this self hate had reasserted itself.


Asians and Hispanics succeed in ethnic networks because they have a different culture and heritage. They don't cooperate from a moral standpoint either. They do so for survival. Their value systems are oriented towards supporting each other.

Ours aren't, and after 100 years of trying this isn't going to happen. Its too late as the best and the brightest of blacks can swim in the mainstream. Too bad if the others can't.


Blacks don't need each other to survive, and those of us who thrive, usually do so OUTSIDE of the black population. It is their high INTEGRATION with the mainstream which aids their success. So for these reasons we don't cooperate with each other. In fact black business OUTSIDE of majority black communities (which are usually majority poor) usually do better than those located within those communities.


My solution is for blacks who own business to develop networks which support their business. This could be with blacks, and it can also include non blacks. Blacks are fundamentally capitalists, and our origins in slavery make us very individualistic. We don't trust each other, and if we went through the Black Power era and still don't I don't see that happening.

So that group cooperative stuff is just pure nonsense. Even Koreans don't operate from that stand point. If a Korean doesn't bring anything to the table, he is isolated by other Koreans.



Call me cynical but I don't see this cooperative economics working. We missed the bus on that one. If you want to buy and sell books and chatter go ahead. But folks who need to survive, or desire to thrive, aren't going to bother with you.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:30 AM
 
329 posts, read 244,595 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Your arrogance comes, not from having an opinion, but in your insistence that things can "just happen".


If they can just happen, then why haven't they already happened? You weren't the first person to have your ideas, so did you ever stop to think what happened?


It would be better if you analyzed the UNDERLYING reasons why it isn't happening, and beyond some shallow "blame whitey". You aren't doing this, so that makes you arrogant in that you dismiss the experiences of others who tried to do this, and failed. Including the same people who you mention.


Now aside from writing books, what has Claude Anderson achieved? Does he own a company with 1.000 employees, based on his application of Cooperative Economics? The man is just peddling books, and yes I have heard of him. Not saying that he is a bad man. Just saying that he has failed at the idea that he peddles as the solution. And he has set the stage for all sorts of frauds to peddle dreams to vulnerable people. I can mention names, but will not do so.


Tennessee didn't make Oprah rich. Its her high level of success, in Chicago, the 3rd largest media market which set the stage for her going national. Had she remained in Tennessee, she would have remained an upper middle class woman, forever watching her ratings, and fearing that she would be axed, as she got older and fatter.


Ditto Beyoncé. If she just depended on the black markets she would have disappeared, just like so many others. Watch Unsung on TV One if you doubt this. Its her ability to draw audiences of millions, which is what made her rich.


Don't even get into BET, because they single handedly did a lot of damage to black people. Bob Johnson was a pimp who peddled poison to blacks, so that he could sell ads to whites. I blame him for the destruction of black culture, every time I see a kid with pants down to his knees muttering some filth denigrating black women, or extolling violence, or justifying the "N" word.


I mean what people refer to themselves by a name which was intended to demean them? And the resurgence of the "good hair" and light skinned complex is a phenomenon that BET was also guilty of peddling. By the late 70s we had almost gotten over this. By the 90s it was terrifying in how firmly this self hate had reasserted itself.


Asians and Hispanics succeed in ethnic networks because they have a different culture and heritage. They don't cooperate from a moral standpoint either. They do so for survival. Their value systems are oriented towards supporting each other.

Ours aren't, and after 100 years of trying this isn't going to happen. Its too late as the best and the brightest of blacks can swim in the mainstream. Too bad if the others can't.


Blacks don't need each other to survive, and those of us who thrive, usually do so OUTSIDE of the black population. It is their high INTEGRATION with the mainstream which aids their success. So for these reasons we don't cooperate with each other. In fact black business OUTSIDE of majority black communities (which are usually majority poor) usually do better than those located within those communities.


My solution is for blacks who own business to develop networks which support their business. This could be with blacks, and it can also include non blacks. Blacks are fundamentally capitalists, and our origins in slavery make us very individualistic. We don't trust each other, and if we went through the Black Power era and still don't I don't see that happening.

So that group cooperative stuff is just pure nonsense. Even Koreans don't operate from that stand point. If a Korean doesn't bring anything to the table, he is isolated by other Koreans.



Call me cynical but I don't see this cooperative economics working. We missed the bus on that one. If you want to buy and sell books and chatter go ahead. But folks who need to survive, or desire to thrive, aren't going to bother with you.

No one is "blaming whitey" as you say, the issue as to why Blacks aren't working together today is multilayered, there's not just one specific answer. Is there a lack of trust within the black community? Yes, but again this comes down to social conditioning which traces it's origin to slavery. In my opinion focusing too much on the why nothing gets done. An earlier of my responses to that would be to focus on the next generation. In my opinion is that it's the reposibility of those whom own or operate businesses within the Black community to educate the younger generation the importance of ownership and what it means to circulate money within their communities. This needs also needs to be taught and applied at home. Will Black issues be fixed overnight by doing this? Of course not, but we have to start somewhere. I don't buy the "it's too late in the game" argument. Guess, I'm too much of an optimist.

Of course, if Black business owners want to expand their economic base by collaborating with other groups there's nothing wrong with that. That's called good business sense but not having control of your own destiny by owning or producing is not.

Blacks don't need each other to survive? That's a first. Tell that to the likes of Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas, Toussaint Louverture etc. Tell that to all the young Black men and women gunned down by police. Just beause there's a few wealthy Blacks that are well off doesn't mean Blacks as a whole are. From my observations all ethnic and racial groups in this country operate in their own best interest in order to survive. Black Americans are the only ones conditioned not to.

Last edited by jkc2j; 06-07-2016 at 02:15 AM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:10 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,932,888 times
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Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
No one is "blaming whitey" as you say, the issue as to why Blacks aren't working together today is multilayered, there's not just one specific answer. Is there a lack of trust within the black community? Yes, but again this comes down to social conditioning which traces it's origin to slavery. In my opinion focusing too much on the why nothing gets done. An earlier of my responses to that would be to focus on the next generation. In my opinion is that it's the reposibility of those whom own or operate businesses within the Black community to educate the younger generation the importance of ownership and what it means to circulate money within their communities. This needs also needs to be taught and applied at home. Will Black issues be fixed overnight by doing this? Of course not, but we have to start somewhere. I don't buy the "it's too late in the game" argument. Guess, I'm too much of an optimist.

Of course, if Black business owners want to expand their economic base by collaborating with other groups there's nothing wrong with that. That's called good business sense but not having control of your own destiny by owning or producing is not.

Blacks don't need each other to survive? That's a first. Tell that to the likes of Harriet Tubman, Frederick Douglas, Toussaint Louverture etc. Tell that to all the young Black men and women gunned down by police. Just beause there's a few wealthy Blacks that are well off doesn't mean Blacks as a whole are. From my observations all ethnic and racial groups in this country operate in their own best interest in order to survive. Black Americans are the only ones conditioned not to.

Yes all of the black folks who thought that the world would change because Obama became the first black president. Where are they today? As broke as they were in 2008.


And what of the cities with the black mayors. You think that police shootings are lower. Try DC, Baltimore, Atlanta, Detroit and Philly when it had a black mayor. HIGHER than white run NYC, which is no paradise either.


FACT. Blacks cannot rely on the black community to achieve their goals in the same way that other groups, including whites can. Those blacks who are most successful are the ones with the strongest alliances to the mainstream. You think that if I went to them and reported your prescriptions for black success they would listen to you? No. They would recite all the difficulties that they had when they were reliant on black markets, and how it changed as they were able to broaden their reach.




Those who do depend on black patronage are struggling, under capitalized, under patronized, etc. I live in a black community where there are 3 Korean Laundries and only one black one. That black man is friendly, and knows his customers. His costs are higher, so his prices are about 10% higher.


He lacks the advantages that the Koreans have because he lacks a black network which can provide resources to his business. Those Negroes rush to the Koreans. Couldn't be bothered to support him, though they will harass him with their church raffles, and be shocked if he ran them out of his store.


So what do you think his reaction will be if I tell him that he has an obligation to educate blacks? He will probably suggest that they need to stop going to the Korean and start coming to his store first, and then maybe he will have the means to help them.


In the interim all he has the time for is to grow his business as best as he can, and SURVIVE!


I can tell you other stories about blacks who provide services to other blacks, who then proceed to not pay them, but then rush to pay MORE to non blacks.


Pardon me if many think that it is not worth it at a time when the world is less hostile to us as individuals.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:05 PM
 
329 posts, read 244,595 times
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Yes all of the black folks who thought that the world would change because Obama became the first black president. Where are they today? As broke as they were in 2008.


And what of the cities with the black mayors. You think that police shootings are lower. Try DC, Baltimore, Atlanta, Detroit and Philly when it had a black mayor. HIGHER than white run NYC, which is no paradise either.


FACT. Blacks cannot rely on the black community to achieve their goals in the same way that other groups, including whites can. Those blacks who are most successful are the ones with the strongest alliances to the mainstream. You think that if I went to them and reported your prescriptions for black success they would listen to you? No. They would recite all the difficulties that they had when they were reliant on black markets, and how it changed as they were able to broaden their reach.




Those who do depend on black patronage are struggling, under capitalized, under patronized, etc. I live in a black community where there are 3 Korean Laundries and only one black one. That black man is friendly, and knows his customers. His costs are higher, so his prices are about 10% higher.


He lacks the advantages that the Koreans have because he lacks a black network which can provide resources to his business. Those Negroes rush to the Koreans. Couldn't be bothered to support him, though they will harass him with their church raffles, and be shocked if he ran them out of his store.


So what do you think his reaction will be if I tell him that he has an obligation to educate blacks? He will probably suggest that they need to stop going to the Korean and start coming to his store first, and then maybe he will have the means to help them.


In the interim all he has the time for is to grow his business as best as he can, and SURVIVE!


I can tell you other stories about blacks who provide services to other blacks, who then proceed to not pay them, but then rush to pay MORE to non blacks.


Pardon me if many think that it is not worth it at a time when the world is less hostile to us as individuals.

I personally think it's sad that you've had the experiences that you've had dealing with other Black Americans in your business dealings, which obviously has helped formulate your world view on this topic.

No, it's not a fact that Black Americans can't rely on their communities to be successful. That's your opinion based on your own subjective experiences. Buy hey, believe what you want at this point. It's pretty clear nothing I say will make you see another perspective on the subject. No one said the task would be easy. After a certain age it's difficult to recondition a person's mind after being programmed to think a certain way for so long.

Some Black Americans believe that they can't achieve anything on their own without the help from outside groups. What I've been saying though for the last few pages is that there should be a focus on conditioning the next generation for this. Those Black business owners and professionals whom desire to work together to invest in our communities should be the ones to teach, of course not every Black person has the want or desire to. That's fine, I'm only focused on the ones that do, which I personally know a few. It's my opinion that no matter the current circumstances Black Americans are faced with we have the wherewithal to change our circumstance. We know that it's possible because it's been done before whether forced or not.

Again, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.

Last edited by jkc2j; 06-07-2016 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:50 PM
 
10 posts, read 5,299 times
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I came across these videos which I found interesting the Dr. traced her roots to Cameroon through DNA and wants to reconnect the demeanor of the reporter in Cameroon during the interview I thinks speaks volumes, I think he views her as an American interloper. I don't think that most Africans view African-Americans as African. I actually felt bad for her during the interviews she seems like a nice lady and he behaved like an ass in my opinion.

I have noticed that some African-Americans want to reconnect with their African roots but I don't believe the feeling is mutual with Africans. What do you think? I really think most Africans would prefer African-Americans stay out of Africa.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57S69g0Rb5k





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrVD2u_o8qU
Where did you get the impression that most Africans wish that African Americans would stay out of Africa? I've spoken with a decent number of native Africans and the general consensus is, they wish Europeans would return to Europe and stay off of their land.
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