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Old 07-04-2016, 01:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Again, go back re read my posts. We've already had this discussion. Of course there were Blacks laborers, maids, etc. You also had Black banks, grocery stores, law firms, hardware stores, restaurants etc. Of course we're speaking of the early 20th which slavery was barely over 60 years old at this point. The point is most of these businesses were Black owned and places like Black Wall Street thrived because we were working together. Forced or not.

That's not even taking to account the suffocating Jim Crow laws of the time that kept Blacks from obtaining some of the same resources that whites had. I believe we did quite well given the circumstances but according to your standards we didn't so much. That's non sense.

Again, Black people have been conditioned since slavery that we can't thrive without the help of outside groups. We've been taught that we don't need each other in order to be successful and thrive. As an individual, one can become quite successful, as a group, not so much. In my opinion this is why Blacks can be easily controlled and can't have an agenda that benefits the group as a whole.

If my Black owned business depends solely on the patronage from outside groups then I'm also subject to said groups best insterest more than my own. The solution is that we need people committed to the well being of the whole group and not just the individual. Too many educated Blacks once they get to a certain level it seems as if they turn their backs on the communites which birth them. When the ones that have means don't invest and build businesses in their communities it leaves the door wide open for other groups to come in and capitalize. It's that simple.

As I've stated on multiple posts, we need a reconditioning of the mind set, which starts with the next generation.
You still cannot explain why if those "black Wall Streets" were so pervasive and successful, why almost none of them remained in place by the dawn of the Civil Rights movement. In fact most were destroyed by jealous whites, and those so displaced, lacked the means to recreate these communities.


Please don't chat about the law firms of the pre Civil Rights era. The black owned law firms today are more numerous, and also more successful. There are more black lawyers today than at any other time. You need to get out a bit more.


The black banks have suffered the fate of small banks all over the USA. The few remaining only exist because of capital injected from mainstream entities.




Now let us look at the condition of those black businesses which DO invest within poor black communities.


Does the meager success of these entities provide incentive for others to follow? How will these upper middle class blacks attract the capital to build business, given the track record of failure among black business located in poor black communities with limited spending power? Where are the deep pockets of cash within the black community to provide risk capital?


The black entities which succeed, are those more thoroughly integrated into the US economic systems. Those less successful at this remain under capitalized and financially weak.




You do know that the child of an upper middle class black is more likely to fall into poverty, than similar kids of other groups. This largely because large numbers of them live in, or near to poor black communities, or therefore vulnerable to all of the external and internal factors which create these problem plagued neighborhoods. So why blame those blacks who think that being a good parent means sheltering their kids from this?
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
"
I'm not convinced most Africans see black Americans as cousins I've watched the dynamics for years and don't even think some Africans view Africans from other Africans as cousins. I notice a significant difference when two individuals of the same country meet especially the same tribe vs the almost indifference you see sometimes when two Africans from different countries meet each other for the first time at work.


All one needs to do is to look at where Africans live, and work and who they marry. They prefer Africans primarily (especially those from their nation and/or ethnic group). Next it will be non African blacks (preferably Caribbean blacks, where there is some sharing of an immigrant experience).


The notion that they are oblivious to racism, which they might get from attempting to fully integrate with whites, is a joke.


Sorry to break it to you, but having lived in the USA for 30 years, and worked in offices where most of those present are white, I am yet to meet the "color blind" white.


Any African who tells you that they live in the USA, and don't notice race, is fooling you. Merely telling you what they think that you want to hear.


The USA is defined by race, and this being especially so for blacks, regardless of their ethnic or cultural origins.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:24 PM
Status: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,829 posts, read 21,135,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You still cannot explain why if those "black Wall Streets" were so pervasive and successful, why almost none of them remained in place by the dawn of the Civil Rights movement. In fact most were destroyed by jealous whites, and those so displaced, lacked the means to recreate these communities.


Please don't chat about the law firms of the pre Civil Rights era. The black owned law firms today are more numerous, and also more successful. There are more black lawyers today than at any other time. You need to get out a bit more.


The black banks have suffered the fate of small banks all over the USA. The few remaining only exist because of capital injected from mainstream entities.


The goal of Urban Renewal was to destroy Black owned small businesses so they could be replaced with mega corporations. Think about it: at the time Black urban neighborhoods were safe and vibrant, no govt program was needed to improve them! It reminds me of how America wanted to "improve Iraq" (translation: hand over control of their oil to Shell and Exxon) and now we would just love to return to the Iraq of Saddam. Rich White Americans destroyed inner city Black America to take their businesses, now we're spending trillions a year on the disaster that resulted.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:27 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,927,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Over 70% to 75% of Black Americans are middle class

And The Black American buying power is over 1.1 Trillion while not the same thing that number is in the area of a top 15 GPA...

So it Black Americans did invest it would help a lot.......

The's a wreath gap between Black and white Americans,

How ever

The's a wreath gap between Black Americans and non western counties.


The average black household income is $ 40k, so not what most would claim to be truly middle class. The median net worth of the average black household is under $20k, and this includes their home equity, so quite dire.


In fact fewer than 10% of black households had earnings in excess of $100k, where one would expect the type of discretionary earnings to allow investment in risky ventures.


So please tell me where is the money within the black population to fund high risk ventures, which startup businesses by definition are, given the high failure rates.


I will put aside the fact that blacks are very risk averse, so will be even be less inclined to invest in speculative ventures than will be others with comparable wealth. We have less group cohesion than do other non white groups, so trust each other less. Another reason why we will not invest in these startup ventures.


Folks got to stop being silly.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
. Think about it: at the time Black urban neighborhoods were safe and vibrant,.


So why did upwardly mobile blacks want to flee if these were halcyon areas of prosperity?


Yes there was redlining and "urban renewal", which made what was already vulnerable, even worse, but seriously pretending that Harlem was a rich neighborhood packed with black owned businesses is beyond silly. Even worse will be if one pretended that the Southside of Chicago, with its notorious slums, was this way.


The bulk of the businesses located in these communities were non black owned. As the purchasing power declined as upwardly mobile blacks left (as do most people who are upwardly mobile leave poor communities), and crime soared, these businesses closed.


Generational shifts also made the kids of these immigrant (non black) owned businesses disinclined to keep these open.


What happened in Southern towns? The whites, who dominated the commercial thoroughfares of those towns fled, with coming integration. Blacks lacked the economic means to replace these businesses, so the cities collapsed. Surely if a prosperous black business community existed in a city like Jackson, MI, it wouldn't have collapsed, as it indeed did.
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Old 07-05-2016, 09:18 AM
 
Location: London, NYC & LA
842 posts, read 654,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
All one needs to do is to look at where Africans live, and work and who they marry. They prefer Africans primarily (especially those from their nation and/or ethnic group). Next it will be non African blacks (preferably Caribbean blacks, where there is some sharing of an immigrant experience).


The notion that they are oblivious to racism, which they might get from attempting to fully integrate with whites, is a joke.


Sorry to break it to you, but having lived in the USA for 30 years, and worked in offices where most of those present are white, I am yet to meet the "color blind" white.


Any African who tells you that they live in the USA, and don't notice race, is fooling you. Merely telling you what they think that you want to hear.


The USA is defined by race, and this being especially so for blacks, regardless of their ethnic or cultural origins.
Can't disagree with any of that.. Caribny on point as usual..
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Old 07-05-2016, 01:21 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
6,898 posts, read 4,232,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
All one needs to do is to look at where Africans live, and work and who they marry. They prefer Africans primarily (especially those from their nation and/or ethnic group). Next it will be non African blacks (preferably Caribbean blacks, where there is some sharing of an immigrant experience).


The notion that they are oblivious to racism, which they might get from attempting to fully integrate with whites, is a joke.


Sorry to break it to you, but having lived in the USA for 30 years, and worked in offices where most of those present are white, I am yet to meet the "color blind" white.


Any African who tells you that they live in the USA, and don't notice race, is fooling you. Merely telling you what they think that you want to hear.


The USA is defined by race, and this being especially so for blacks, regardless of their ethnic or cultural origins.

1. I offered my opinion regarding my experience working with first generation African immigrants many of whom have been in the USA less than 15 years(as a whole the Africans I know are not warm and embracing of other black cultures and seem quite status obsessed). Two of my are married to non-Africans one is married to a a white-American the other is married to someone withe a Nigerian father and a black American mother.

2. Didn't make that statement.

3. You don't need to inform me of something I already know.

4. You have no way of knowing that for certain.

5. I am quite aware that the US isn't a colorblind society.
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Old 07-06-2016, 09:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
1. I offered my opinion regarding my experience working with first generation African immigrants many of whom have been in the USA less than 15 years(as a whole the Africans I know are not warm and embracing of other black cultures and seem quite status obsessed). Two of my are married to non-Africans one is married to a a white-American the other is married to someone withe a Nigerian father and a black American mother.

2. Didn't make that statement.

3. You don't need to inform me of something I already know.

4. You have no way of knowing that for certain.

5. I am quite aware that the US isn't a colorblind society.


Your comments are typical of those who form opinions of others based upon who they encounter, and what these people chose to tell you.


While Africans have identities which are distinct from black Americans, to claim that they don't have greater connection to them than they do to whites is plainly wrong.
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Old 07-06-2016, 12:46 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
6,898 posts, read 4,232,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Your comments are typical of those who form opinions of others based upon who they encounter, and what these people chose to tell you.


While Africans have identities which are distinct from black Americans, to claim that they don't have greater connection to them than they do to whites is plainly wrong.


I am unsure really I don't have anyway to verify if what particular individuals have told me is truthful in regards to this issue. The word I originally used was affinity defined as natural liking or sympathy for.




I'm not sure if I posed that question on this forum the answers would be honest.





Well I will pose it anyway for those that are Africans(black Africans) born in Africa but living in the USA.


Do you have a greater affinity for black Americans over white Americans?
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Old 07-07-2016, 03:22 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,927,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I

Do you have a greater affinity for black Americans over white Americans?


The answer is that immigrants from Africa, who arrive as adults, do not have great affinity for black Americans. They have GREATER affinity for those black Americans, who they share socio economic status with, than they do with whites.


The contempt that African immigrants have is directed mainly towards the inner city black American, but the truth is that upwardly mobile black Americans share the same perspective.


This is the USA. Life can be lonely for a black immigrant who lives surrounded by whites. The reality is that few whites embrace blacks as they do other whites, so Africans don't have much choice.
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