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Old 07-19-2016, 12:43 PM
 
332 posts, read 245,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Because you keep making the same point, and not even expanding on it.


Blacks do not have an economy which allows them to invest in each other. So unless you have ideas as to how this economy will be developed what you seek will not happen.


Telling upper middle class blacks that they must invest what they don't have, when their financial situation is quite vulnerable makes no sense. There aren't enough black athletes to make a difference either, so don't even go there.
Dude, I've literally spent the last few pages expounding on my ideas. Not sure what you're reading. It's obvious you have your opinions but it seems to you keep repeating the same hypothetical scenerios about athletes and entertainers investing when you and I know there are more middle and upper class Blacks than just those professions. A 1.2 trillion dollar spending power just doesn't come from no where. You keep trying to change the narrative of the conversation. First your argument was that "Blacks don't have an obligation to invest in their communities"(to which I rebutted with conditioning the next generation and encouraging current wealthy Blacks to invest to create a new economic reality) to "Blacks don't have the economic capacity"(to which I refuted with the 1.2 trillion dollar spending power) My opinion is that it's not an issue of can but will. Again, we'll just agree to disagree.
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Old 07-19-2016, 03:43 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Dude, I've literally spent the last few pages expounding on my ideas. Not sure what you're reading. It's obvious you have your opinions but it seems to you keep repeating the same hypothetical scenerios about athletes and entertainers investing when you and I know there are more middle and upper class Blacks than just those professions. A 1.2 trillion dollar spending power just doesn't come from no where. You keep trying to change the narrative of the conversation. First your argument was that "Blacks don't have an obligation to invest in their communities"(to which I rebutted with conditioning the next generation and encouraging current wealthy Blacks to invest to create a new economic reality) to "Blacks don't have the economic capacity"(to which I refuted with the 1.2 trillion dollar spending power) My opinion is that it's not an issue of can but will. Again, we'll just agree to disagree.


No you have lectured blacks who you think are successful to invest in the black community. You have NOT established how they can do so, given the barriers which they have, and the vulnerable position that most of them find themselves in.


What you have is a vision. NOT an actionable idea, and when you grow up you will learn what that means.


There are 42 million blacks, with a median household income of $40k. This is NOT enough even to be in the middle class these days. So there goes your $1.2T. Seems good until you break it down into what is available to real black folks to use.


The $1.2T leaves black pockets within minutes of being earned, so it is really meaningless!


As to the wealthy blacks. Which ones are wealthy? You cannot even determine this. You don't even know how many of them are indeed doing things within the black community (Oprah does more than you think, as does Magic Johnson and others). But there are NOT enough to make a difference.


You cannot demand that the average upper middle class black sacrifice when they are struggling along as is. And you have NOT come with any specific ideas as to how they can channel what little they can to do what you wish them to do. These are folks who have to work hard, and barely have enough time to spend with their families, and yet you demand the world from them.


They do NOT operate within a black economy. They operate within a hostile market based economy, and are often the last hired and the first fired. The black population offers NO SAFETY net if they lose their jobs and their businesses fail. Even now with the economic recovery the black middle class is worse off than it was in 2000 because the majority either work in the public sector, or in administrative support position in the corporate sector.


I know that you are a child, but seriously! The only conditioning that most upper middle class blacks can do is for their own kids, and others within their family structures. They lack the ability to go tell bus drivers or low level civil servants to change their ways, and the definitely CANNOT help the under class.


And why will they when its their ability to succeed WITHIN THE MAINSTREAM which accounts for their success. Not engaging in some nebulous dream that blacks can create their own little society independent everything else.


In fact even Asian small business people want their kids to work for Goldman Sachs, and those people have more of an entrepreneurial culture than we will ever have. Look at how highly assimilated Asian Americans are, even if their foreign born parents aren't!
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Old 07-19-2016, 08:30 PM
 
332 posts, read 245,355 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
No you have lectured blacks who you think are successful to invest in the black community. You have NOT established how they can do so, given the barriers which they have, and the vulnerable position that most of them find themselves in.


What you have is a vision. NOT an actionable idea, and when you grow up you will learn what that means.


There are 42 million blacks, with a median household income of $40k. This is NOT enough even to be in the middle class these days. So there goes your $1.2T. Seems good until you break it down into what is available to real black folks to use.


The $1.2T leaves black pockets within minutes of being earned, so it is really meaningless!


As to the wealthy blacks. Which ones are wealthy? You cannot even determine this. You don't even know how many of them are indeed doing things within the black community (Oprah does more than you think, as does Magic Johnson and others). But there are NOT enough to make a difference.


You cannot demand that the average upper middle class black sacrifice when they are struggling along as is. And you have NOT come with any specific ideas as to how they can channel what little they can to do what you wish them to do. These are folks who have to work hard, and barely have enough time to spend with their families, and yet you demand the world from them.


They do NOT operate within a black economy. They operate within a hostile market based economy, and are often the last hired and the first fired. The black population offers NO SAFETY net if they lose their jobs and their businesses fail. Even now with the economic recovery the black middle class is worse off than it was in 2000 because the majority either work in the public sector, or in administrative support position in the corporate sector.


I know that you are a child, but seriously! The only conditioning that most upper middle class blacks can do is for their own kids, and others within their family structures. They lack the ability to go tell bus drivers or low level civil servants to change their ways, and the definitely CANNOT help the under class.


And why will they when its their ability to succeed WITHIN THE MAINSTREAM which accounts for their success. Not engaging in some nebulous dream that blacks can create their own little society independent everything else.


In fact even Asian small business people want their kids to work for Goldman Sachs, and those people have more of an entrepreneurial culture than we will ever have. Look at how highly assimilated Asian Americans are, even if their foreign born parents aren't!

Ok bro, I hear you loud and clear lol. Basically, what you're saying is that Black Americans who have a spending power of 1.2 trillion dollars are too broke to invest in their own communities lol. According to your logic every other group has this capacity to invest in themselves except Blacks. I guess we should just continue spending our money with every other group rather than our own, while Arabs, Asians, Hispanics and others groups continue to build within their groups and open up shop in ours. Boy, am I glad the younger generation doesn't have a mindset like yours or else we'd always be at the bottom of the economical barrell. Making other groups wealthy then wonder why Blacks can't get it together. Luckily myself and others whom I know are looking to change things.
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Old 07-19-2016, 09:05 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkc2j View Post
Ok bro, I hear you loud and clear lol. Basically, what you're saying is that Black Americans who have a spending power of 1.2 trillion dollars are to broke to invest in their own communities lol. According to your logic every other groups has this capacity to invest in themselves except Blacks. I guess we should just continue spending our money with every other group rather than our own, while Arabs, Asians, Hispanics and others groups continue to build within their groups and open up shop in ours. Boy, am I glad the younger generation doesn't have a mindset like yours or else we'd always be at the bottom of the economical barrell. Making other groups wealthy then wonder why Blacks can't get it together. Luckily myself and others whom I know are looking to change things.

You know what. Arabs, Asian, Hispanics and others don't talk. They do. They don't demand that "rich people should change mindsets". They go out and start businesses within their networks. They laugh at people like you, as this chatter indicates how blacks don't even begin to understand the world of business.


While you chat they are minting money from the $1.2T that you are chatting about.




Black people are always good at telling what other black people should be doing, which is why after much time wasted we still do not have an economic system and over 90% of the money that blacks spend leaves the black population immediately.


What you babble about isn't new. Since Marcus Garvey there has been this talk, and I can tell you that blacks talk more about blacks having to do this or that for other blacks. Yet here we are in 2016 known as people who spend money, totally unable to even economically dominate our neighborhoods. These other groups laugh at us, call us stupid, and scoff at people like you who don't build anything.


If you want change YOU GO AND DO IT. Don't sit down and scream that "rich" blacks should do it. Very few blacks are independently wealthy, even the ones who you think are rich.


Here is what I do. If I see two blacks who need to meet each other in order to build their businesses I link them. I don't waste time about what the other 42 million blacks do or don't do. I don't waste time trying to change any one's minds. All I try to do is to ensure that the blacks who I can help I help. This way at least something small happens, as opposed to folks like you who want to build a huge empire, and cannot even build a shack.
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Old 07-30-2016, 09:12 PM
 
332 posts, read 245,355 times
Reputation: 351
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
You know what. Arabs, Asian, Hispanics and others don't talk. They do. They don't demand that "rich people should change mindsets". They go out and start businesses within their networks. They laugh at people like you, as this chatter indicates how blacks don't even begin to understand the world of business.


While you chat they are minting money from the $1.2T that you are chatting about.




Black people are always good at telling what other black people should be doing, which is why after much time wasted we still do not have an economic system and over 90% of the money that blacks spend leaves the black population immediately.


What you babble about isn't new. Since Marcus Garvey there has been this talk, and I can tell you that blacks talk more about blacks having to do this or that for other blacks. Yet here we are in 2016 known as people who spend money, totally unable to even economically dominate our neighborhoods. These other groups laugh at us, call us stupid, and scoff at people like you who don't build anything.


If you want change YOU GO AND DO IT. Don't sit down and scream that "rich" blacks should do it. Very few blacks are independently wealthy, even the ones who you think are rich.


Here is what I do. If I see two blacks who need to meet each other in order to build their businesses I link them. I don't waste time about what the other 42 million blacks do or don't do. I don't waste time trying to change any one's minds. All I try to do is to ensure that the blacks who I can help I help. This way at least something small happens, as opposed to folks like you who want to build a huge empire, and cannot even build a shack.

My dude, you know nothing about me or my background. I do a lot more than chat on internet forums unlike yourself. No one said rich Blacks had to do anything, I only mentioned possible solutions to assist with the common goal of economic improvement. That simple.

Good for you that you help link black business owners but why stop there? Why not teach other aspiring Black business owners how to build and operate a business. Why not share some of that knowledge you've gained with young people whom may want to do what you do? I guess that'd be asking too much huh lol.
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Old 08-07-2016, 11:03 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,937,902 times
Reputation: 3799
[quote=jkc2j.
Good for you that you help link black business owners but why stop there? ..[/quote]

And here you are telling black people what to do again. You need to focus on what you are doing, and stop telling others what to do with the money that they DO NOT have!


I have been working around black businesses now for 30 years. How long have you been working with them?


Until we have thriving black businesses that can develop a vibrant economic ecosystem telling blacks who don't have money or business expertise to start businesses is just asking for failure.

So rather than starting millions of business, 95% of which will fail, my focus is to help ensure that the 5% with a chance to succeed actually do thrive.

The best way to get blacks interested in business ownership instead of safe employment is to show them models of success.

Without thinking too hard I can think of at least 10 black real estate developers in NYC right now, but most blacks don't even know that they exist. Now if these guys developed scale and visibility then more blacks will see success in this, instead of becoming a VP at Citigroup!

So my focus is to work with what is there instead of encouraging people to engage in dreams when most lack the capital, social connections, or mindset for this to work.
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Old 08-10-2016, 04:43 AM
 
3 posts, read 3,198 times
Reputation: 10
I'd say pan-Africanism is something of a delusional fantasy. There's no African wide culture that could unite the continent. I mean you see serious divisions in the African Union based on language, region and even ethnicity. The Au's a joke anyway, jam-packed with dictators and demagogues who abuse their own people...it's hard to believe that such types could care about much else. Maybe I'm just biased because I'm an individualist and loathe all supranational organisations.
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:48 AM
 
205 posts, read 838,840 times
Reputation: 123
"...Someone once told me, “It would be dope to live in a place where black people made all the political decisions, like it is in Africa”. This is an expectation those who romanticize Africa hold. Unfortunately, a black ruling class isn’t as idealistic as it may sound. I wonder how African Americans would react to black leaders who sign contracts selling the livelihood of their brethren to outsiders? What might they think of black governors and ministers who would much rather pocket millions than provide clean water and electricity to the masses?

Africans in the diaspora who return after several years hold similar expectations as African Americans. They too look forward to that feeling of belonging and connection. However, the reality that they will never be able to interact and relate to their land of origin in the same way quickly confronts them. These expats reluctantly realize that a resume button does not exist. In fact, they now possess a level of elitism that prevents them from ever reaching that state of “belonging” they once felt but now crave. African Americans will also be confronted with such complexities..."

If African Americans Returned to Africa
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Old 09-04-2016, 02:31 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,936 posts, read 6,276,213 times
Reputation: 12383
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
Technically, black Africans sold other Africans as commodity,so I don't think Africans ever gave a damn about Africans in North America, not from the beginning. Pan Africanism is very much a product of the African American inferiority complex. Africa is a large diverse place, the concept of Pan Africanism is ridiculous.
I think most internationalism is ridiculous. It is a way for leaders to pal around with other leaders at the public expense. And this is not limited to Africa. I generally don't like the UN.

I have nothing against mutual defense pacts such as NATO or bilateral agreements between countries with common borders or true common interests. But to create a phony Kumbaya experience at public expense? Bah humbug.
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:23 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
6,898 posts, read 4,243,943 times
Reputation: 5878
Quote:
Originally Posted by krock67 View Post
"...Someone once told me, “It would be dope to live in a place where black people made all the political decisions, like it is in Africa”. This is an expectation those who romanticize Africa hold. Unfortunately, a black ruling class isn’t as idealistic as it may sound. I wonder how African Americans would react to black leaders who sign contracts selling the livelihood of their brethren to outsiders? What might they think of black governors and ministers who would much rather pocket millions than provide clean water and electricity to the masses?

Africans in the diaspora who return after several years hold similar expectations as African Americans. They too look forward to that feeling of belonging and connection. However, the reality that they will never be able to interact and relate to their land of origin in the same way quickly confronts them. These expats reluctantly realize that a resume button does not exist. In fact, they now possess a level of elitism that prevents them from ever reaching that state of “belonging” they once felt but now crave. African Americans will also be confronted with such complexities..."

If African Americans Returned to Africa
Some people also believe Kunta Kinte was a real person.
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