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Old 12-05-2016, 08:48 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
No you don't.

Every person, black, white or any other race, is unique. Their goals are shaped by where they were born, where they grew up and where they currently live, not by their race. An African-American from Kentucky cannot relate to what a Ghanaian goes through. And on the white side of the coin, white nationalists in North America love to proclaim their European-ness, but they don't have the faintest friggin' clue about European culture. Do you think white dude Francois in Paris looks at white dude Bob in Alabama and thinks "My brother!"?.
That's because they're not "European".
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Old 12-05-2016, 11:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctic_gardener View Post
Cannot agree. There is absolutely nothing in common between Irish-descent Americans (excluding 1st generation immigrants) and Irish people. Similarly, African-Americans (excluding 1st gen immigrants) really have nothing in common with Africans except for appearance.
Not true Immigrant and people migrating shape culture, the new country become a mix of cultures. St Patrick day is Irish, Halloween is has Celtic roots. A lot state dances are line and Squared dancing which is also Irish. I like to study all cultures not just Black related, so I looked into all that.


A lot of the tridional religious and sexual dances from Africa has huge effect on pop culture though out the Americas. US, Brazil, West indies and etc.



A lot of people don't know this but African religious express mixed in Black churches, which is way Black Churches are commonly and historically expressive with dancing, music and etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmmTMg3e5Uo

The dancing in Black churches contrast white American churches during the time. And general much of the West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZMRrUOCXJs

Dancing become secular in Juke Joint after the civil war to the 1950's. This Help create The Blues, R&B and Rock and Rolls.




Also In New Orleans, New Orleans was govern by French and Spanish though colonial history which were less restrictive toward slaves practicing their African Culture than the British. Most slaves in New Orleans were not from Africa but the West indies which also held higher degree of African tradition.


New Orleans creole, Haitian creole, are mix between French, African and Native American words. New Orleans voodoo, Haitian Vodou, comes from West African Vodun. Basically African culture had strong influence on New Orleans.

Jazz came New Orleans, the instrument was European classic and Military but they played them polyrhythmic


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv3OU1QBX8E



Traditional African dances are polycentric, Which contrast Ballet and Many European Folk dances. Both of these had major influence early 21 century American pop culture. A lot of music and dancing that came out of Black communities challenged Western mortality. So had hip movements, bending, vibration and etc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcJyZA-rrE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKJbQ-dB3E

I was looking at Afro Brazil and Afro West Indian culture.

1. There's a Parallel between Brazilian Samba music and dancing, and American Jazz and Swing dance. They have no direct connection just similar roots which cause them to have similar to each other. Look at last video of Marble Lee she basically did a few Samba steps with out trying she was actually Tap and Swing Dancing.

2. Later with more connection in the modern world Funk and traddiational Afro beat have an influence on each other. During the 60's and 70's Black Americans started putting African prucession in music.

3. Ragge is influence and conneted with R&B

4. Hip Hop, Dance Hall, Brazilian Funk, and A lot of African pop genres Bongo Flava, soukous, Kwaito and etc are connected and parallels. They are very different but they have a similar anesthetic in stressing rhythm.
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Hudson Valley/Upper Downstate/Lower Upstate
439 posts, read 255,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Not true Immigrant and people migrating shape culture, the new country become a mix of cultures. St Patrick day is Irish, Halloween is has Celtic roots. A lot state dances are line and Squared dancing which is also Irish. I like to study all cultures not just Black related, so I looked into all that.


A lot of the tridional religious and sexual dances from Africa has huge effect on pop culture though out the Americas. US, Brazil, West indies and etc.



A lot of people don't know this but African religious express mixed in Black churches, which is way Black Churches are commonly and historically expressive with dancing, music and etc.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmmTMg3e5Uo

The dancing in Black churches contrast white American churches during the time. And general much of the West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZMRrUOCXJs

Dancing become secular in Juke Joint after the civil war to the 1950's. This Help create The Blues, R&B and Rock and Rolls.




Also In New Orleans, New Orleans was govern by French and Spanish though colonial history which were less restrictive toward slaves practicing their African Culture than the British. Most slaves in New Orleans were not from Africa but the West indies which also held higher degree of African tradition.


New Orleans creole, Haitian creole, are mix between French, African and Native American words. New Orleans voodoo, Haitian Vodou, comes from West African Vodun. Basically African culture had strong influence on New Orleans.

Jazz came New Orleans, the instrument was European classic and Military but they played them polyrhythmic


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv3OU1QBX8E



Traditional African dances are polycentric, Which contrast Ballet and Many European Folk dances. Both of these had major influence early 21 century American pop culture. A lot of music and dancing that came out of Black communities challenged Western mortality. So had hip movements, bending, vibration and etc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcJyZA-rrE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhKJbQ-dB3E

I was looking at Afro Brazil and Afro West Indian culture.

1. There's a Parallel between Brazilian Samba music and dancing, and American Jazz and Swing dance. They have no direct connection just similar roots which cause them to have similar to each other. Look at last video of Marble Lee she basically did a few Samba steps with out trying she was actually Tap and Swing Dancing.

2. Later with more connection in the modern world Funk and traddiational Afro beat have an influence on each other. During the 60's and 70's Black Americans started putting African prucession in music.

3. Ragge is influence and conneted with R&B

4. Hip Hop, Dance Hall, Brazilian Funk, and A lot of African pop genres Bongo Flava, soukous, Kwaito and etc are connected and parallels. They are very different but they have a similar anesthetic in stressing rhythm.
This is what "dropping the mic" looks like (in written-form)...
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:10 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamaicaOnTheHudson View Post
Actually, Pan-Africanism is absolutely a reality. Many Diasporans in the Americas and Europe are financial and cultural partners with Africans on the continent. That doesn't mean that we should attempt to co-opt/adopt cultures that we are not members of. However, there is a shared commonality between African peoples around the globe. It's the same affinity that Americans of Irish ancestry have with Ireland (and native-born Irish). That group has the same "authenticity issues" that we have in our society (i.e. "Plastic Paddies"). That said, at the end of the day, family is family...
I don't deny that SOME blacks from the Americas might have financial involvement in Africa. I don't deny that real friendships exist between open minded Africans from the continent and similar people from the Diaspora.


An Irish American knows that at least some of his ancestry is from Ireland, and he might even know the region of his ancestors. He might also be in touch, or can track down relatives.


Sail from Senegal to Angola, and then onto Mozambique and you will see the vastness of the lands that descendants from Transatlantic slavery came from. So distant were these lands that in most cases encounters between the various groups occurred for the first time in the tobacco farms of Virginia, the cane fields of Barbados or the gold mines of Minas Gerais, Brazil.


99.9999999999999999% of the blacks in the Americas have no idea of what their ethnic ancestral identities in Africa were. So they have no "home" to return to, except in some feel good generic Africa. They don't know the languages, nor do they have the ability to participate except within the more westernized elements of these African cultures.


So there is no African Disapora in the way that a Jewish or even an Indian or Chinese diasporas exist.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:15 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamaicaOnTheHudson View Post
That's nice, but untrue. We share a common goal...


And what is this goal? And why have sub Sahara nations and CARICOM had such a tough time becoming united? What of the friction between the various black ethnic groups in the USA where there is no love lost between the various African American, West Indian/Haitian, Afro Latino and continental African groups. Or in the UK between the Afro Caribbean and African populations. In fact in the latter there have even been some instances of violence, especially involving Somalis.
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Old 12-06-2016, 11:21 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamaicaOnTheHudson View Post
This is what "dropping the mic" looks like (in written-form)...





Its interesting that when folks talk about pan African solidarity the focus is usually music and dance. This being the venue where most African influences have survived.


However African dance is more than singing and dancing. And even then we exaggerate. How many black Americans know or care about the music of Senegal, Nigeria, Congo or South Africa?


Let us discuss the very different forms of family structure which developed in black societies in the Americas where slavery existed in comparison with that of most parts of Africa. I suspect that Africans don't even understand the concept of "Baby Mamma", which is very widespread among blacks in the Caribbean, Latin America and also the USA.


That slavery thing that we went through was very traumatic and the end product was very different from the enslaved person who was brought to these shores.
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Old 12-06-2016, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Hudson Valley/Upper Downstate/Lower Upstate
439 posts, read 255,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Its interesting that when folks talk about pan African solidarity the focus is usually music and dance. This being the venue where most African influences have survived.


However African dance is more than singing and dancing. And even then we exaggerate. How many black Americans know or care about the music of Senegal, Nigeria, Congo or South Africa?


Let us discuss the very different forms of family structure which developed in black societies in the Americas where slavery existed in comparison with that of most parts of Africa. I suspect that Africans don't even understand the concept of "Baby Mamma", which is very widespread among blacks in the Caribbean, Latin America and also the USA.


That slavery thing that we went through was very traumatic and the end product was very different from the enslaved person who was brought to these shores.

Eh, we focus on "music and dance" because of the importance of oratory tradition in our culture. "Dance and music" was never just dance and music--it was/is a means of storytelling and passing down history.

So, yeah, it's not just "dancing"...
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Old 12-06-2016, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Hudson Valley/Upper Downstate/Lower Upstate
439 posts, read 255,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I don't deny that SOME blacks from the Americas might have financial involvement in Africa. I don't deny that real friendships exist between open minded Africans from the continent and similar people from the Diaspora.
Agree. In fact, that number is growing substantially...


Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
An Irish American knows that at least some of his ancestry is from Ireland, and he might even know the region of his ancestors. He might also be in touch, or can track down relatives.
He may or may not. More than likely, the knowledge/understanding of Irish heritage would stem from a) an Irish surname (coupled with a certain coloration) and b) family history (via oral tradition). Some Americans of (recent Irish) ancestry may have documents (i.e. immigration papers) which would indicate descendancy. Most, however, do not.

Regardless, being a part of a Disapora is complicated: Members of diasporas (African, Irish, Italian, Jewish, Chinese, whatever) often have visible ties to their homeland. That means that whether or not direct decendancy is present, can or cannot be documented, or is recognized by others is irrelevant. The fact that we are disaporans is, literally, written across our face. Some embrace that, others chose not to...



Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Sail from Senegal to Angola, and then onto Mozambique and you will see the vastness of the lands that descendants from Transatlantic slavery came from. So distant were these lands that in most cases encounters between the various groups occurred for the first time in the tobacco farms of Virginia, the cane fields of Barbados or the gold mines of Minas Gerais, Brazil.
And? Your point is? China's vast too. It also has more than 50 ethnicities, and seven language dialects. Guess what? They're all Chinese. If one Chinese person is HAN and the other HUI, they're both Chinese. If the Han Chinese immigrates to Brazil and the Hui migrates to Hawaii, they're still both of Chinese ancestry. Furthermore, if those immigrants have children, their descendants will share that ancestry and, therefore, be a part of that diaspora.



Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
99.9999999999999999% of the blacks in the Americas have no idea of what their ethnic ancestral identities in Africa were.
Again, your point? Who cares if the majority of Americans of African descent know their "ethnic ancestral identities"? Thanks to phenotypical genetic expression, most can safely narrow it down to one continent...

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So they have no "home" to return to, except in some feel good generic Africa. They don't know the languages, nor do they have the ability to participate except within the more westernized elements of these African cultures.
First, there's nothing "generic" about Africa. It's the prototype--and where civilization, montheism and life itself began...
Second, as mentioned earlier, there's no need for diasporans to maintain every aspect of their respective origins in order to be members of a diaspora. Luckily, those of the Africa diaspora have more visible proof of ancestry, but the same concept applies to other groups as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
So there is no African Disapora in the way that a Jewish or even an Indian or Chinese diasporas exist.
Yes, there is...Period. I'm a (proud) member and you are a member as well (whether you recognize it or not).

Have lovely day.

Last edited by JamaicaOnTheHudson; 12-06-2016 at 01:37 PM..
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Hudson Valley/Upper Downstate/Lower Upstate
439 posts, read 255,034 times
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Default Oh yeah...

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The most valid point that he made was about generational transfer of culture, values and identities. His comparison between Jews and blacks was on point.


Jews know that their survival depends on supporting each other. Its an instinct. They don't have to have "buy Jewish" campaigns. A Jew will know that he has to lookout for business opportunities for another Jew, because he is part of a network, and the more he puts into it, the more he gets out.


Hispanics, and Asians, and some Africans are also like that.


Blacks of the Diaspora (American, Caribbean) aren't like that. We love socializing with each other. We also love protests, but we are too dumb to organize the protest in such a way that we empower each other. So we buy the "African" attire from the Korean, and we use white owned buses, hotels, and food caterers.


Quick! How much money did blacks make from the Million Man March? How much money do blacks make from the West Indian Day Carnival in Brooklyn? Both huge events. Answer. Very little. What is disturbing is that we do NOT even discuss this.


Yet we talk about black group economics.
I found this post you wrote a few years ago. In it, you admit that there's a Black Diaspora. Unless, there's a country and/or continent named "Black", I'm assuming these Black Disaporans have roots in Africa. My question to you now, is what's changed in two years? Take yo' time...
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,202 posts, read 1,577,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
This sounds interesting. How do you think your goals differ from a similar group of businesses cooperating that aren't run by"people of color"? Can you elaborate on the formula?
Most people, and I reiterate MOST, are in business to make money. Capitalism and the churning of profits are their motivation whether or not the goods or services they render is a passion of theirs or not. The point that I reiterated was that people of color, whom are conscious to the fact that no matter where they are in the world as a person of color, we all share the same ancestral heritage and story for the most part can come together and share their love of cultural experience as well as capitalism. It has nothing to do with a jewish, latino, hungarian and afro-american group of businessman to your point. Have you in particular experienced what it is like to be black in brazil, or london, or peru? I think you discount the consciousness of individuals and the eagerness to learn about others whom are identical to them in the minority but from another country. Though we grew up in different countries our experiences are nearly the same. And sharing those nuances is what brings us together because no matter what you are still a black man or woman in those countries. That is from a macro level. Now how shall you like to dissect this from a micro level??
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