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Old 12-24-2016, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
You missed the point, My point was because of influences from traditional African culture evolve created something new. especially given pop culture..


This is true. In fact different groups of blacks lived in different environments and so created different responses to that environment.


And as a result of this misunderstanding and conflict emerges which means that different black groups often deal with each other through a lens of mistrust and even contempt.


So to claim that all blacks agree to one unifying theme of what "blackness" is all about is fantasy.


Go into a housing project and tell a kid that he is "African". I don't think that his response will be nice, because most likely he doesn't understand the Africans that he does see (because they don't "act black").


I can well bet what those Senegalese living in Harlem think of black Americans, given that the dominant image in their heads will not be people with values that they consider to be positive.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
There is also an accent connection between the West Indies and West Africa.

Belizean Kriol, Jamaican Patois, Bajan Creole, Trinidadian Creole as well as American Gullah with west african pidgin english, this is why the West Indian and West African accent have a similarity.
I have never heard any one claim that Jamaicans, Bajans, and Trinis have the same accent.


I can mimic Nigerians pretty well. Believe me I don't do so with a West Indian accent. So I am not sure of what you speak.


Yes the creoles of the Caribbean are built off of a grammatical base of a synthesis of a variety of West African linguistic systems, but there are other influences as well. Which is why Jamaicans, Bajans, and Trinidadian accents are radically different from each other. When a Haitian speaks English I know that he is a Haitian.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Agbor View Post

In majority black or all-black societies "Black" is not an important identity. Ethnicity is the primary identity. Once in Africa, I think "Black" or "African" identity or heritage means nothing, Yoruba, Edo, Fon, etc. carry more weight than being "Black". I think Pan African heritage only matters a great deal in majority white societies where blacks are marginalized because of their Black or African heritage.

Some Black Americans or other Diaspora blacks go to Africa soon realize how Western they really are and some of the customs they might not be able to deal with.


This is in fact true. I did my undergrad in the UK and encountered British blacks of Caribbean descent. In the 70s they had been hugely rejected by the UK society, so had developed an oppositional culture. As some one who didn't grow up in a majority white culture I didn't understand their need to do so, and found their identity of being Caribbean people as hilarious, given that to me they were Caribbean inflected black Cockneys.


I now understand the psychic need that blacks who grow up in majority white societies need to develop a pan African identity. But I do know that these same blacks often don't understand blacks who don't grow up in majority white societies, so have a different identity formation than they have.




Yes there IS a loose identity among black people. Yes all things being equal a black person will gravitate to another, even one outside of his group, in a white majority situation. But we still have a ways to go before we begin to understand and accept each other before we can speak of a pan African identity.


And YES a black American will have very valid reasons to more closely identify with a black immigrant than with a white American. At times their very survival might depend on it. So while I don't agree that Pan Africanism, meaning that there is one black global population acting in unison, exists I do believe that a lose black collaboration does.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanLuis View Post
Delusional. Specially those that claim the Olmecs and other Native Americans were African.


I suggest that you research the complexities of black identity formation before you make further comments, or you might find yourself allied with certain white supremacists here, who I will not name, because I don't want this thread to be locked.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krock67 View Post
This dated article sums up some of the real challenges that exist today.

''A lot of the black Americans come here expecting to find their brothers and sisters,'' the executive said. ''But they don't share a common language or culture or background. All they share is their black skin.''

'Where is the hope for us in America?'' Mr. Moses said. ''We will never be in charge. We will always be 10 percent. We will always be fighting to keep some cop from shooting us in the back. But here it's worth the battle. You can win this here.''

Some Black Americans Find Only a Chill in South Africa - The New York Times


This is an excellent article. I especially noted the part where the South Africans take bets as to how long it would take before the black American expressed being home. I went to Gambia not long after the TV series Roots was filmed The locals asked us where we were from, noting that we couldn't be black Americans as they hadn't seen us kiss the ground and express being home.


There is a need for many blacks who feel rejected by their majority white countries to find a "homeland" where they think that they belong. I understand this, though they also need to understand why Africans find these attitudes to be hilarious.


Those from the majority black Caribbean feel less of a need to do this. The focus is more on discovering the degree to which African culture has been retained in modern Caribbean culture. And at a superficial level there is much of it, though when one gets deeper into the less western influenced aspects of Africa we begin to realize how superficial the commonalities are.


I will however state that it is a distinct MINORITY of American blacks who manifest an interest in Africa. In fact most even reject being called "African American". There is a joke about the fact that if a white person refers to a black person as "African American" then he doesn't mix too much with blacks as most blacks refer to each other as "black".
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
So much bigotry and ignorance in this post. But I put it this way, Racism is to put another group down by race

You basically over generally any one black who want to learn there roots and than negativity at that.

Your literal definition of racist.


Well I warned Urban Luis about who his friends will be, and here they show up.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Black brazilians are more embracing there African heritage then Black Americans


It is NOT that they embrace it more. It is that Brazilian culture is more African. So even white Brazilians embody a high degree of Africanism by virtue of being Brazilian.


This is because of the large numbers of slaves taken over, 5 million, vs. the mere 500k into what is now the USA. This is also how late there was an active importation of enslaved peoples into Brazil when compared to the USA. Most slaves brought to the USA arrived before 1776. Huge numbers were still being brought into Brazil up to the 1860s.


In addition in Brazil the slaves were in huge plantations where they often outnumbered the whites. In the USA in the early tobacco days the slaves were in small plantations located in regions where whites outnumbered them. So in Brazil it was easier for African culture to survive and to be transmitted to later generations.


When slavery ended a high % of the freed population in Brazil were either African born or had family members who were. So that as these peoples began to have autonomy over their lives their retention of African culture was higher.


Now we can debate about whether there is more "black pride" in Brazil. Only 6% of the population self identifies as black, even though most will agree that the Afro descendant population is considerably larger than that. The notion of "advancing the race" is widespread and many still try to have kids with lighter skinned people to achieve this goal. In fact the % of the population which self identifies as "black" has been declining.


So the fact that there are more African elements among Brazilians (without regard to racial identity) than among black Americans is a function of history. Not because some how black Brazilians embrace African culture more than do their American counterparts.


In fact many white Brazilians cite the acknowledgement of the African contribution to Brazilian culture as evidence that racism in Brazil doesn't exist. A lie for any who have visited that country.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Historically no, but modernly it is worst, there a far worst racial equality gap in latin America Colombia, Brazil, Cuba and etc then the US.


There never been jim crow like racist system in latin America. but there is extreme colorism,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0ODz9aIQ_k

The moreno/mulatto thing wasn't my point but anyway it goes Black brazilians are more embracing there African heritage then Black Americans

Proof that it is worse in Colombia, Brazil, Cuba, etc. than the US rather than anecdotal claims and newspaper articles?

Have you ever been to those places?

Mind you Latin America is a significantly large region and there are huge differences, even on different sections of the country. You cannot speak for all Latinos or all Black Latin Americans on this issue, and progress varies from country to country. You sound like an afrocentrist with extremely shallow or superficial knowledge of Latin America.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
This is an excellent article. I especially noted the part where the South Africans take bets as to how long it would take before the black American expressed being home. I went to Gambia not long after the TV series Roots was filmed The locals asked us where we were from, noting that we couldn't be black Americans as they hadn't seen us kiss the ground and express being home.


There is a need for many blacks who feel rejected by their majority white countries to find a "homeland" where they think that they belong. I understand this, though they also need to understand why Africans find these attitudes to be hilarious.


Those from the majority black Caribbean feel less of a need to do this. The focus is more on discovering the degree to which African culture has been retained in modern Caribbean culture. And at a superficial level there is much of it, though when one gets deeper into the less western influenced aspects of Africa we begin to realize how superficial the commonalities are.


I will however state that it is a distinct MINORITY of American blacks who manifest an interest in Africa. In fact most even reject being called "African American". There is a joke about the fact that if a white person refers to a black person as "African American" then he doesn't mix too much with blacks as most blacks refer to each other as "black".
True of it being a minority. Even among Black students who studied "Africana" studies, I know very few who have an actual interest in Africa. One got a teaching job in Central Africa and is learning French and one of the Native languages.

Part of this is also a financial and an educational issue. For any American to be able to stay overseas long, they need money and they will need to be able to get a job. In order to get visa sponsorship one generally needs an advanced education. So obviously only a minority of African Americans could work in the Congo, Angola, etc long term.
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Old 12-24-2016, 09:53 PM
 
24,247 posts, read 17,643,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
It is NOT that they embrace it more. It is that Brazilian culture is more African. So even white Brazilians embody a high degree of Africanism by virtue of being Brazilian.


This is because of the large numbers of slaves taken over, 5 million, vs. the mere 500k into what is now the USA. This is also how late there was an active importation of enslaved peoples into Brazil when compared to the USA. Most slaves brought to the USA arrived before 1776. Huge numbers were still being brought into Brazil up to the 1860s.


In addition in Brazil the slaves were in huge plantations where they often outnumbered the whites. In the USA in the early tobacco days the slaves were in small plantations located in regions where whites outnumbered them. So in Brazil it was easier for African culture to survive and to be transmitted to later generations.


When slavery ended a high % of the freed population in Brazil were either African born or had family members who were. So that as these peoples began to have autonomy over their lives their retention of African culture was higher.


Now we can debate about whether there is more "black pride" in Brazil. Only 6% of the population self identifies as black, even though most will agree that the Afro descendant population is considerably larger than that. The notion of "advancing the race" is widespread and many still try to have kids with lighter skinned people to achieve this goal. In fact the % of the population which self identifies as "black" has been declining.


So the fact that there are more African elements among Brazilians (without regard to racial identity) than among black Americans is a function of history. Not because some how black Brazilians embrace African culture more than do their American counterparts.


In fact many white Brazilians cite the acknowledgement of the African contribution to Brazilian culture as evidence that racism in Brazil doesn't exist. A lie for any who have visited that country.
What people put on an application is different from what people will call you out on the streets, and this is true in anywhere in Latin America.

Have you been in BRAZIL recently? A number of things change dramatically on the ground in the region as a whole, and what was the case in the 80s or even in the 90s is not necessarily the case today. Or what is the case in one part of the country might not be the case in another part of the country.
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