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Old 12-31-2016, 04:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
So basically in Brazil, they go by appearance? and have terms for different mixes in terms of appearance? While in the United States they are more concerned with White purity and go by ancestry, and label things binary Black or White with pure White being only designated as White?

As an AA, I personally find the Haitian racial classifications more comfortable, where they say "mix of black" or griffe.
Historically is not present, a 100 yes ago there was this view that white is only pure white by racist in the US, Some states even made it law back then. Modern in the US it's nothing like that race is not exclusive, I put it this way There is no specific box for being "mix", rather some multi racial can mark multiple boxes on The US Census.

So really it's the context of the topic or conservation, that why I brought Amerie for example who half black half Asian. If we were talking about Asian culture in that context she will be Asian, if we talking about black history and culture than see she will be Black.


Latin culture is different, the historic racism was different. Race associate with class, for example Lousiana was govern by the Franch and Spanish, Usually Creole is refer to things mix in latin America is mean the white colonist, but Creoles of color in Louisiana was a mix class. They had more status then Blacks but not as much as whites. This cause all kind of categories Quadroon, octoroon, hexadecaroon because how much European ancestry to African ancestry put you in a class. This why there so many racial categories in Latin America. black people wanted to be mix, mix people wanted to be white.

This is one of most interesting doc I ever seem, it's about Jazz, but it talks about race in Lousiana, @ 12:00 in speaks about Creoles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2hcore29s





'Mejorar la Raza': An Example of Racism in Latino Culture | The Huffington Post

https://www.britannica.com/topic/blanqueamiento


In the US race and class are not related, not matter how racism is in the US or how bad statistics are black Americans going to identify with at least partly being Black. It Latin countries were there was more complex caste system around race why would anyone want to identify as black or native? So a matrix of racial classifications came forth. This also makes more difficult fight racism in Latin countries. But there actually a growing movement that more people are starting to identify as Afro latino or having some African ancestry.

Last edited by chiatldal; 12-31-2016 at 05:04 PM..
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
This thread was started to learn more about Pan-Africanism and topics related to it. If you don't like it you can start a new one I find the topic interesting so I initially designed the thread to be controversial to elicit emotions in addition to facts to gain more insight.

I belong to a Brazilian forum with hundreds of members some of which are mixed who I have developed friendships with and where these topics are also discussed in Portuguese related to ethnicity and color in Brazil but the focus is to share genetic information. I don't expect you to agree with my views that isn't important to me. The thing is the thread was started over a year ago so some of my views have evolved a bit. I do that the labels used in Brazil related to color a a product of slavery I stand by my comments in reference to Brazil that these labels don't belong in a modern society.
I apologize for the way I came at you I was a bit defensive. But despite are disagreement I think we all here interesting in learning
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
As far as most black Americans are concerned you cannot speak Spanish or Portuguese and still be "black".


Black Americans are no more interested in the world outside of the USA than is your typical American. Good for vacation, but nothing more.


In fact a major tension exists between black Americans and other blacks as the latter think that the former make no attempt to understand that their perspective of race is different. Its only in the USA that people will argue that Alicia Keyes is black. Most definitely few Barbados see Rihanna as a black woman. She is "red", as is Beyoncé.
Definitely in the parts of Latin America with fewer Blacks people would call Rihianna and Alicia Morenos (means Black).

They have clearly Black features, and people who are either white or white/native or native aren't into going into defining 50 shades of Black.

As for the Caribbean or Northern South America, depends on who you're dealing with. This seems to be an obsession of yours, what people are called. Why do you care?
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
The vast majority of Afro-Brazilians are primarily of Portuguese descent there is no such thing as the one drop rule in Brazil all Brazilians of Colonial descent have African ancestors. Sadly there is a social hierarchy that favors those with more European features. The premise of the reporter from Al Jazeera is that that 51% of Brazilians are black.(Brazilians typically don't see it that way). Another example of one culture imposing their racial views on a different culture. Brazilians will have to work it out for themselves and the American/Anglo model is nothing to be proud of.
Much of this is foreigners obsessing over and deciding for themselves how Brazilians identify, and speaking out as the utmost authority on situations in Brazil when many haven't been or have not been in a long time. I notice there's no Brazilian voice on this matter on these threads. My main issue is that people are speaking for Brazilians, when they simply cannot.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
As to the statement above, I have to disagree. I am currently in BA and my friends here will tell you because I am dark skinned I would be referred to as Negro, not Moreno. Moreno for all intents and purposes outside of Spain is for Latino's of Caramel complexion. And you should know this living in NYC as I do.

Also, I spend a lot of time in Brazil and can tell you really dark skinned people there are referred to as Negro...everything in between has a name as well(Cafuso, Mulatto, Caboclo, etc) to describe their hue or blackness if you will. Even the darker Brown individuals in Mexico are not called Moreno. Puerto Rico and in some places in the DR yes.

And as far as the socioeconomic/racial issues facing people of visible Afro, Indigenous, or Afro Indigenous descent they most certainly are issues. Favelas and Barrios in countries with large Afro___ populations are mainly populated by the racial groups I just listed. I spend a month each year in Brazil and can tell you the majority of Afro/ people are towards the bottom of the socioeconomic scale.
BA as in Buenos Aires? Well I am darker than Rihianna, and I am called moreno in the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Colombia, and moracho in Paraguay (means same thing as moreno). What people in NYC would say is irrelevant to what people in Latin America would say, and clearly that varies enormously depending on the country and even on the region of the country. As noted, in the places I have been to, I have seen moreno applied to all Black people so word usage can certainly vary. I've not seen moreno applied to anyone of caramel complexion, but I am not sure what caramel complexion is.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:27 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
I apologize for the way I came at you I was a bit defensive. But despite are disagreement I think we all here interesting in learning
No problem. I think the discussion is an important one and if we start excluding people from the discussion that we disagree with and only speak to people with like opinions then that potentially limits the learning process. Despite the fact that some have verbalized I don't belong in this discussion I disagree I see this discussion as a learning process and learning has no color in my opinion.
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
1. I would love to but No, 2. I don't have to I get this from Afro Latinos, and even the things I brought up involves Afro Latino speaking. I literally just posted a video of Afro Brazilian woman speaking about racism. 3. Many Latin countries even acknowledge this is an issue.

I know how broad Latin America is with different political systems and cultures, But though those different political systems and cultures there is this pattern was my point.

What I said was modernly racism is worst in latino America than the US, The racial income equality gap doesn't just exist in the US, it exist all though out the Americas. With Latin America having far more poverty than the US. Latin American counties racial income equality is than the US.

The UN
Race and Poverty in Latin America: Addressing the Development Needs of African Descendants


The World Bank
Beyond the soccer fields, racism is the enemy of millions of Latin Americans



Brazil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-zo8lyOAs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1xnIdtn3FI


This not southside Chicago, An American ghetto has nothing on a brazilian fevela



Choco is the poorest department of Colombia it's all has largest black percentage of Any department.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7xSrrgKN0
The US has the most people per capita and in sheer numbers locked up in prison, and they are disproportionately Black. The war on drugs has been a war on Black people to an extent, and so has the war on crime. So half of Black America is locked up, and whatever superficial gains made under the civil rights movement maybe undone by the Trump administration.

So please tell me how racism is worse in Latin America? There's no objective proof, besides your own biases and your being upset that some people call themselves names other than Black. If true, why would you even care that they may call themselves names other than Black? Are you upset that they get to leave a label you have imposed on you?
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Old 12-31-2016, 06:31 PM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Much of this is foreigners obsessing over and deciding for themselves how Brazilians identify, and speaking out as the utmost authority on situations in Brazil when many haven't been or have not been in a long time. I notice there's no Brazilian voice on this matter on these threads. My main issue is that people are speaking for Brazilians, when they simply cannot.
I don't speak for Brazilians however I found the video to be unbalanced and very pessimistic that's why I made my statements. I really don't appreciate Anglo's getting on their high horse regarding racial matters.
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Old 01-01-2017, 01:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AFP View Post
I don't speak for Brazilians however I found the video to be unbalanced and very pessimistic that's why I made my statements. I really don't appreciate Anglo's getting on their high horse regarding racial matters.
Take my home city NYC. The people doing the low level service jobs (retail, supermarket, drug stores, cleaning the subways and doing the lowest level public transportation work). Mostly Black or a dark skinned/Afro Latino. The people getting shot by the police? Black. The public education system here in the US mostly fails minorities, and teachers are 80% white females. There's no real hope for reforming the public education system.

These Anglos (not just Americans, some Anglo Caribbeans on this thread) are only bringing up Latin America and putting it down as a distraction.

Some of the people here may say, but there's more public school graduates in the US than Latin America? It still doesn't prove the US is better, because the if someone wants to sell fruit on the streets to make money in Latin America, they can. The US enforces licenses and permits which further locks poor minorities out of the workforce. Of course the US is the country where people don't have to fear calling the first lady a gorilla or other deplorable names they never would have called a white first lady.
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Old 01-03-2017, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
BA as in Buenos Aires? Well I am darker than Rihianna, and I am called moreno in the Dominican Republic, Mexico, Colombia, and moracho in Paraguay (means same thing as moreno). What people in NYC would say is irrelevant to what people in Latin America would say, and clearly that varies enormously depending on the country and even on the region of the country. As noted, in the places I have been to, I have seen moreno applied to all Black people so word usage can certainly vary. I've not seen moreno applied to anyone of caramel complexion, but I am not sure what caramel complexion is.
Yes, Buenos Aires...and here in the Barracas barrio I am not referred to as Moreno, nor am I to any Puerto Ricans when I travel to San Juan or in the DR. Also, neither in Brazil. They have light skinned people whom would be called "high yellow" in America that when you ask them will say they are Negra/o in Brazil. The ones that do not want to specifically identify as black but more indegenous and portuguese have all sorts of other descriptors they use...see my last post.

And to say that what a Dominican from Santo Domingo or Santiago would say that currently resides in NYC is irrelevant is ridiculous....all of the Latino population in the 5 Burroughs is not home grown dude.....thats very reckless.
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