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Old 01-06-2017, 11:35 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Nope, these are misfits and losers of American society, who are crabs in a bucket that try to pull as many down as they can.

The one thing under the sun they won't claim is personal responsibility.

The afronut kryponite.

"Federal data confirms that 73 percent of African-American births in 2010 were out of wedlock. Estimates for the percentage of African-American children growing up in single-parent households are slightly lower, at 67 percent."

Politifact
You are so bizarrely racist and sadist part is you think you making a point

"The one thing under the sun they won't claim is personal responsibility." Who are they? Do you know all of "they" to know what all they think?....................... You basically assume that because I'm black I don't think children born out wedlock is a problem?......

I just told you racism is deeming a group superior to another, if you generalize another group by race negatively it's literally the definition of racism.


Fallacy: Hasty Generalization

Quote:
Also Known as: Fallacy of Insufficient Statistics, Fallacy of Insufficient Sample, Leaping to A Conclusion, Hasty Induction.

Description of Hasty Generalization

This fallacy is committed when a person draws a conclusion about a population based on a sample that is not large enough. It has the following form:

Sample S, which is too small, is taken from population P.
Conclusion C is drawn about Population P based on S.
The person committing the fallacy is misusing the following type of reasoning, which is known variously as Inductive Generalization, Generalization, and Statistical Generalization:

X% of all observed A's are B''s.
Therefore X% of all A's are Bs.
The fallacy is committed when not enough A's are observed to warrant the conclusion. If enough A's are observed then the reasoning is not fallacious.

Small samples will tend to be unrepresentative. As a blatant case, asking one person what she thinks about gun control would clearly not provide an adequate sized sample for determing what Canadians in general think about the issue. The general idea is that small samples are less likely to contain numbers proportional to the whole population. For example, if a bucket contains blue, red, green and orange marbles, then a sample of three marbles cannot possible be representative of the whole population of marbles. As the sample size of marbles increases the more likely it becomes that marbles of each color will be selected in proprtion to their numbers in the whole population. The same holds true for things others than marbles, such as people and their political views.

Since Hasty Generalization is committed when the sample (the observed instances) is too small, it is important to have samples that are large enough when making a generalization. The most reliable way to do this is to take as large a sample as is practical. There are no fixed numbers as to what counts as being large enough. If the population in question is not very diverse (a population of cloned mice, for example) then a very small sample would suffice. If the population is very diverse (people, for example) then a fairly large sample would be needed. The size of the sample also depends on the size of the population. Obviously, a very small population will not support a huge sample. Finally, the required size will depend on the purpose of the sample. If Bill wants to know what Joe and Jane think about gun control, then a sample consisting of Bill and Jane would (obviously) be large enough. If Bill wants to know what most Australians think about gun control, then a sample consisting of Bill and Jane would be far too small.

People often commit Hasty Generalizations because of bias or prejudice. For example, someone who is a sexist might conclude that all women are unfit to fly jet fighters because one woman crashed one. People also commonly commit Hasty Generalizations because of laziness or sloppiness. It is very easy to simply leap to a conclusion and much harder to gather an adequate sample and draw a justified conclusion. Thus, avoiding this fallacy requires minimizing the influence of bias and taking care to select a sample that is large enough.

One final point: a Hasty Generalization, like any fallacy, might have a true conclusion. However, as long as the reasoning is fallacious there is no reason to accept the conclusion based on that reasoning.
Error There, you don't know anything remotely about my views or me, you blandly making generalizing about me with comments about what you think Pan Africanists are which base on a whole another generalization itself.

But Lets look pass your obsessive racist generalization

So let talk about your link here and break down your racist logic..........
  1. Your link has nothing to do with what I said or the poster you responded to said, literally AFP nor I was speaking about children born out of wedlock, Your logic was literally let me post something randomly about black people.

  2. I don't know you if realize this but ummmm believing there racist issue in America as well as there issue in the black community blacks need to work on is not a conflict.

  3. What I find interesting about racist a lot of conservative far wing white racist believes generalizing people as out to get is you is racist, which is true, assuming all white people is hateful would be racist, but at the same time they essentially believe that Blacks are hateful out to get them them.

  4. What happen here you was aware of someone black speaking on a topic relating to black people, and the racist alarm went off in you. you instantly came in to try to argue a racist generalizing points that had nothing to do with what was being discus.
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:14 AM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Rihanna being a "red woman" in Barbados is put into a separate "racial" category. She isn't merely a light skinned black. In many parts of the Caribbean some one looking like Alicia Keyes, or even Halle Berry, would be seriously confused as to why you would consider them "black".


Now some "red" people self identify as black, and some don't. This largely depends on their family culture, the closeness of ties with black family members, or the degree to which they have traveled beyond the Caribbean, or the political ideology. I will expect Rihanna to self identify as "black" given her close ties to her black mother, her troubled ties to her "red" father, and her massively heavy exposure to US patterns of racial identity.






This is my point about blacks needing to understand that each black society has its own heritages which in turn informs identity formation.


Go to Nigeria and tell an Igbo that they should embrace a Hausa and adapt being "black" as their primary identity and they will see you as being mad. You are aware of the ethno-religious violence which has occurred in Nigeria, and I am not talking about extremists like Boko Haram.


Blacks need to understand that there is no universal from of identity formation that works throughout the world. In Africa ethnicity is way more important. In Latin America few want to be black, so look for the most minute evidence of non black heritage, and until recently, there was very weak identity formation based on "blackness". In the non Hispanic Caribbean mulattos evolved as a buffer group between the numerically dominant black population and the minute white population. In the USA a "one drop rule" was developed as part of Jim Crow, to curb the growing power of mulattos.




So we need to respect that the role of "blackness" differs depending on where one is. Some one screaming that a Temne is "black" might have you classified as mad. They know they are just as they know that most whites have brown hair. To them skin color is no more important in identity formation than is hair color for whites.
The one drop rule is not literally. But the term was created during Jim Crow because during the time racists thought whites can not be mix, it meant exude mix people from whites. Again Latin counties there was racial caste system, that mean if you was mix you was treated better than blacks but not as good as whites. This is why in Latin America being called Black was a negative thing until recently.

Heck the term in the US wasn't popular either, "color" and "negro" was up to the 60's, think about that for a second. In the 60's in the US there was the black is beautiful movement and James Brown say it loud stuff growing. So Black Americans started embracing being called Black and started rejecting terms like negro and color.

but Your missing my point, Your talking about color I'm talking about ancestry, It doesn't matter the term as long as that term translate as the same thing,

So it doesn't matter lets say on Mars Alicia Keys, and Halle Berry and etc are call green, that means Green on Mars, means of partly African ancestry. That would equal to being call Black in the US. Alicia Keys, and Halle Berry can be called what ever as long as it translates of at least partial African ancestry it's actually would mean the same thing.

Actually the Caribbean is a good example BoB Marley had conflicts for being mix, but that relevant that didn't stop him from embracing his African heritage.

Also I think several of yall think pan Africanism means blacks must agree with each other. That's not what it means.
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:14 AM
 
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As far as black identity is concerned, I have met several people from southern Libya, who would obviously be considered racially black without argument in terms of appearance. I am thinking that at some point generations ago, they lost their
African ethnic identity. (maybe their ancestors came over from Mali or something?)...

I remember we had a student from Sudan who was working in one of our offices, If he was born in America, he would be considered a "light-skinned black" (he had a big "Afro" and would not stand out in any AA community in the U.S.) A white
American co-worker upon finding out he was from Sudan, and since Sudan was in Africa, asked him "What tribe are you
from?" He became very angry and said he was from the city, the capital at that (Khartoum) and that he didn't belong to a
tribe.

I explained to the co-worker, he probably considers himself Arab, the tribal people in Sudan live in the South and are rural
I think the underlying mindset is "Arabs live in cities, tribal people don't" . I suspect that "blacks" in the Arab world have a more sense of being "Arab" than "black" if they do not belong to the Nuer or Dinka etc. Have there been any research on
blacks living in Arab societies?
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Old 01-08-2017, 09:30 AM
 
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However, in the U.S. he has AA and white American friends and goes to the local AA barbershop for haircuts.

One day I was on a shuttle passing this barbershop, as we passed, I saw 5 Saudi men enter in traditional robes, headgear,
sandals one guy was sitting in the chair was getting his haircut with his headgear on the side table! You don't expect to see
that as a usual occurrence in rust belt cities. But we were in a cosmopolitan area of the city. The "rapper/homeboys" cutting the Saudi's hair.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,203 posts, read 1,579,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
With due respect to you I will not gauge the degree of one's black identity with the degree to which one identifies with American blacks.


1. AAs can often be just as xenophobic towards immigrants, including black immigrants, as any red blooded Trump supporter. And I have experienced this. Now less visible in NYC as the black immigrant descended population is huge, but its amazing the levels of ignorance that can occur in areas where American blacks are less exposed to foreign blacks.


2. Face it AA political leadership is atrocious and has damaged blacks in the USA, so if the gauge of solidarity is based on the degree to which one identifies with many causes then one is mistaken. One doesn't leave a country to migrate to another to wallow in self pity and hear endless wails about "the MAN". And I get the impression that many younger AAs are also sick of this, as indeed are others, but their racial solidarity leads them to say nothing.


Seriously what is to be gained by occupying Jeff Session's office? How does that help the biggest problem that blacks have, and that is the need to become fully incorporated into the economy?
I am wondering how you could gauge anyone's blackness? Not specifically calling you out but could you expond on how ones blackness can and should be gauged? Im sure we would all agree on the foolishness of some self haters but please expound...

1. Everyone can and will be xenophobic to others they have no intimate knowledge of and judge based off of bulls$$t stereotypes because of that ignorance. We all have seen this up close and at a distance. Aand those targets of xenophobia can be just as ignorant and prejudice as well to a degree. That is ESPECIALLY evident here in NYC. Aand it is in no way shape or form isolated to American people of color.

2. I agree and disagree on this point to a degree. Just like buttholes, everyone has an opinion on this topic. Wwhat is more interesting to me is what people who hold that same opinion would deem as the error and a plausible alternate route or solution. But I surely respect ones opinion. I am of an opinion myself that first open dialogue in which the root cause of the issue is discussed and acknowldged has not happened. So people talking about it is a good thing.Same as I spend a month every year in an apartment i own in Rio and from the Brazilians I have come to know hear some of the same socio-economic gripes. I even sat in on a few college classes at Universidade Federal in Rio during a discussion about the quota systme that was enacted and some business lectures and the same is evident there as well. Which speaks to your statement One doesn't leave a country to migrate to another to wallow in self pity and hear endless wails about "the MAN".

All of this is good communication we just approach it from the slightest of diffeent viewpoints
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:42 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
As far as black identity is concerned, I have met several people from southern Libya, who would obviously be considered racially black without argument in terms of appearance. I am thinking that at some point generations ago, they lost their
African ethnic identity. (maybe their ancestors came over from Mali or something?)...

I remember we had a student from Sudan who was working in one of our offices, If he was born in America, he would be considered a "light-skinned black" (he had a big "Afro" and would not stand out in any AA community in the U.S.) A white
American co-worker upon finding out he was from Sudan, and since Sudan was in Africa, asked him "What tribe are you
from?" He became very angry and said he was from the city, the capital at that (Khartoum) and that he didn't belong to a
tribe.

I explained to the co-worker, he probably considers himself Arab, the tribal people in Sudan live in the South and are rural
I think the underlying mindset is "Arabs live in cities, tribal people don't" . I suspect that "blacks" in the Arab world have a more sense of being "Arab" than "black" if they do not belong to the Nuer or Dinka etc. Have there been any research on
blacks living in Arab societies?
It's interesting because a lot of these terms with Greek and Arabic origins means black. Bilad es-Sudan translate in Arab loosely as Land of the Blacks. The Sudan is basically another term for the Sahel. The country of Sudan is name after the Sudan larger region. So if you hear the phrase the Western Sudan it's referring to Mali, Mauritania maybe Niger.

Sudan | Define Sudan at Dictionary.com
noun
1.
a region in N Africa, S of the Sahara and Libyan deserts, extending from the Atlantic to the Red Sea.

Word Origin and History for Sudan Expand
1842, from Arabic Bilad-al-sudan, literally "country of the blacks," from sud, plural of aswad (fem. sauda) "black."

Similarly Ethiopia comes from the Greeks

Merriam-Webster Ethiopian
Definition of Ethiopian
1
: a member of any of the mythical or actual peoples usually described by the ancient Greeks as dark-skinned and living far to the south
2
archaic : a black person
3
: a native or inhabitant of Ethiopia

Keep in mind there was Arab slave trade as well, Racist ideas didn't just happen with the Europeans. So there some what of racial caste system that happen in Arab societies as well.



henry louis gates docs, This Doc is about Nubia Kush which was in Sudan, And the Swahili coast which form between a mixture of Bantu and Arabic. So some parts touch on the info your asking.

56 mins in the professor speaks with men in Kenya in A Swahili city state who clearly have significant black African ancestry. Blandly say they are just Arabic and don't have black African ancestry. As people became mix they start to deny there African ancestry. The Arab traders started to have a lot of black concubines. There children rather than saying there mix with black, started deny there part black altogether.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu-oheAjjYA

This is common theme Latin America had a similar effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RlG4b3LV9o

In Latin America as well as East African, White and Arab men had relation with Black women, but never was it Black men had relations with Arab or white women. Because these society had racist patriarchal views. That black or native men could not have relations with white or Arab women, and that went against the caste system of those societies.


In the US someone light skined Black people will be offended by blackface, in latin American they want because they don't consider themselves Black. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, Malcom X were light skin imagine if they didn't identify as being at least partial African decent. But rather carry a notion because they are mix they better than darker Blacks. That would askew the whole civil right movement.

Instead of Black Americans hoping to change the views of some white Americans, it would had been Dark skined Blacks hoping to change the views of some white Americans and Mix Americans co signing those views because they want a middle privilege for being mix. It would just made everything more complex and more difficult to fight racism.


After slavery in the US there was period of Black progressing, The Harlem reminiscence. The civil rights movements, The black arts movement and etc. The Harlem reminiscence also called the New Negro movement was the first time in the US really the Americas besides Haiti that people of African decent had a positive out look on themselves. By the 60's the black art movement was first time Black Americans started embracing being called Black.

I remember their was a thread with a poster from Columbia or Venezuela who was Stunned at the amount of Black Americans he saw on US TV, The irony even in America the a under representations to the percentage. But rather in Latin American countries there such a low representations of Afro Latinos or even natives that the US might have seem strange to him. that's I posted that video of the Afro Brazilian women speaking out that she couldn't be the dancers of that show because she was too dark. Racism not just the blandly bigotry of Jim crows lynching and etc. Racism can manifested with negative stereotypes, if someone associate black people as criminals that can hurt that person chances of employment.


In the US the reconstruction era was meant in integrate former slaves into society, it was largely a failure because Lincoln death and the Jim crow laws that came later. but one of few success was the Historical Black collages system. There was clearly nothing remotely like this in Brazil. After Slavery in Latin America many country adopted "Blanqueamiento" polices. They blatantly did nothing to bring up the social mobility of former slave. As strange as it seems many aspect of Afro Latin culture that major part of there overall culture now. Like Samba in Brazil or Rumba in Cuba was outlawed. It wasn't until the 1930's were Brazil started to embracing being multi cultural.

But even after that remain problems a white American can embrace Jazz that didn't mean racial stereotypes didn't harbor, A white Brazil could embrace Samba but that didn't mean racial stereotypes didn't harbor. But by this time Brazil began embrace itself as the racial democracy which was half true. One end Brazil never had the post slavery violence like in the US, the other racial equality gap in Brazil was ignored. The issue get more complex through the changing government system though out Brazilian history.


My point being call Black in the US has little to do with the one drop rule, it was the movements though black American history. The civil right movements black Americans basically started going I'm not ashamed my Ancestors were slave in fact I'm proud of them. That mixed with the US was never a complex racial caste system with a middle mix class that gain status by their whiteness which what happen in Latin America.

In Africa they don't have to identify with being Black if they identify with there ethnicity that by default is there blackness anyway. In the Arab world and some parts of East Africa is works similar to latin America there was a racial caste system.
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Old 01-19-2017, 03:55 PM
 
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This is a descendant of nubian olmecs & one of the "divine children of the sun"?


The Nutty Professor (6/12) Movie CLIP - He's Gonna Blow! (1996) HD

LOL, the afrocentrics.
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Old 02-01-2017, 10:01 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
This is a descendant of nubian olmecs & one of the "divine children of the sun"?

LOL, the afrocentrics.
Nobody in this thread said dang thing about "descendant of nubian olmecs & one of the "divine children of the sun"?"

When you was in school and your teacher taught you about Europe, is the first thing that came to your mind is white Aryan conspiracy theories.... Or do you just do this random hasty generalization to black people because your bigot?

Your so racist it's sad....

so correction LOL bigots who such a bigot his own ignorance amuse himself
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:22 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,929,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
After slavery in the US there was period of Black progressing, The Harlem reminiscence. .


The issue isn't that blacks progressed more in that era than they currently have. It is clear that the black middle class today are considerably more socially and economically integrated into the mainstream than they were 90 years ago. It is also clear that the black middle class is considerably larger now than it was then.


The difference is that in that early era blacks had no expectation that whites would do the right thing and be fair. They saw improvement purely in the efforts that they themselves undertook, so they focused in and celebrated black achievement. Much emphasis on those who were a "credit to the race", so the Harlem Renaissance focused on these, and deplored those who engaged in socially destructive ways.


The dividing point came in the 60s with the Civil Rights movement. The emphasis was on appealing to white social conscience during the mid 60s, shifting to placing the blame on white racism by the 70s. So rather than ignoring social pathologies there was full emphasis on them. Rather than stigmatizing blacks who engage in self destructive behavior we excuse such on white racism.


Its as if one needed to make the point by placing undue focus on black failure. No wonder "blackness" has become conflated in the eyes of many young blacks with negative behavior and being uncouth.


So in 2016 we almost want to define "blackness" by the ghetto, even though fewer than 30% of blacks are poor. In the 20s when 80% of blacks were poor they refused to define themselves by this poverty. Look at how poor blacks dressed up to the 1950s compared to now and see the difference.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:48 PM
 
691 posts, read 918,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The issue isn't that blacks progressed more in that era than they currently have. It is clear that the black middle class today are considerably more socially and economically integrated into the mainstream than they were 90 years ago. It is also clear that the black middle class is considerably larger now than it was then.


The difference is that in that early era blacks had no expectation that whites would do the right thing and be fair. They saw improvement purely in the efforts that they themselves undertook, so they focused in and celebrated black achievement. Much emphasis on those who were a "credit to the race", so the Harlem Renaissance focused on these, and deplored those who engaged in socially destructive ways.


The dividing point came in the 60s with the Civil Rights movement. The emphasis was on appealing to white social conscience during the mid 60s, shifting to placing the blame on white racism by the 70s. So rather than ignoring social pathologies there was full emphasis on them. Rather than stigmatizing blacks who engage in self destructive behavior we excuse such on white racism.


Its as if one needed to make the point by placing undue focus on black failure. No wonder "blackness" has become conflated in the eyes of many young blacks with negative behavior and being uncouth.


So in 2016 we almost want to define "blackness" by the ghetto, even though fewer than 30% of blacks are poor. In the 20s when 80% of blacks were poor they refused to define themselves by this poverty. Look at how poor blacks dressed up to the 1950s compared to now and see the difference.


Appealing to white social conscience went too far in that it excused bad behavior. This bad behavior was then used by racists to stereotype against black people as in "see I told you this is how they are." I think the younger people now see "blackness" as automatically ghetto...They don't realize that they are defining themselves according to a white stereotype of them. They are not defining themselves by self-internal positive means.

This is an aspect of the dumb-downing of American popular culture since the 1960s. The black musical groups in the 1960s wore suits and ties, very neat and polished...The women wore elegant wigs and gowns. Think of the Supremes and the Temptations. Now it is tatoos, gold teeth and Honey Boo Boo.
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