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Old 02-02-2017, 06:52 PM
 
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The weakest and most dysfunctional aspects of Black American culture were amplified on purpose and used against Black
Americans.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The issue isn't that blacks progressed more in that era than they currently have. It is clear that the black middle class today are considerably more socially and economically integrated into the mainstream than they were 90 years ago. It is also clear that the black middle class is considerably larger now than it was then.


The difference is that in that early era blacks had no expectation that whites would do the right thing and be fair. They saw improvement purely in the efforts that they themselves undertook, so they focused in and celebrated black achievement. Much emphasis on those who were a "credit to the race", so the Harlem Renaissance focused on these, and deplored those who engaged in socially destructive ways.


The dividing point came in the 60s with the Civil Rights movement. The emphasis was on appealing to white social conscience during the mid 60s, shifting to placing the blame on white racism by the 70s. So rather than ignoring social pathologies there was full emphasis on them. Rather than stigmatizing blacks who engage in self destructive behavior we excuse such on white racism.


Its as if one needed to make the point by placing undue focus on black failure. No wonder "blackness" has become conflated in the eyes of many young blacks with negative behavior and being uncouth.


So in 2016 we almost want to define "blackness" by the ghetto, even though fewer than 30% of blacks are poor. In the 20s when 80% of blacks were poor they refused to define themselves by this poverty. Look at how poor blacks dressed up to the 1950s compared to now and see the difference.

Your making generalization and using broad terms, and trying to explaining issue as if they are simply black and white. As well as over thinking.


But first of all let talk about "ghetto" a ghetto is place so how the hell does a "name" become "ghetto" .... How does "braids" become ghetto? I remember going to a singer name Tinashe youtube video she half Zimbabwean and her name is shona but people were calling her name ghetto.

Your saying Blacks are defining there self base on "ghetto" I say the opposite anything that has anything to do with black culture is being called ghetto. Both stuff that is low brow and ridiculous stuff that has nothing to do with class. And that's the problem the generalizing.

Also your Harlem Renaissance statement is broad. Jazz during that age was seem as edging, the turn of century the flappers women started dressing with shorter dresses, dancing became more sexualize, A lot of clubs were speak easy illegal or bars during prohibitions, many famous Jazz musicians did drugs, had have tough lives, many from New Orleans associated with the brothels of storyville New Orleans. All generations are more liberal and rebellious to the last.

If young black kids started punk rock that would be views as "ghetto" ........

No body black excuse self destructive behavior on white racism. The irony is usually white racist say that line when they want to speak broad, and with no specific or ignore what ever issue was being discus. Again it's not a black or white issue people can walk and chew gum, people can criticize issues in their communities as well be aware and try to knock down glass ceiling.
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Agbor View Post


Appealing to white social conscience went too far in that it excused bad behavior. This bad behavior was then used by racists to stereotype against black people as in "see I told you this is how they are." I think the younger people now see "blackness" as automatically ghetto...They don't realize that they are defining themselves according to a white stereotype of them. They are not defining themselves by self-internal positive means.

This is an aspect of the dumb-downing of American popular culture since the 1960s. The black musical groups in the 1960s wore suits and ties, very neat and polished...The women wore elegant wigs and gowns. Think of the Supremes and the Temptations. Now it is tatoos, gold teeth and Honey Boo Boo.
So did gangster then back then whats your point? 90% of America don't wear suits and ties causally why should blacks?


But a huge no................ Today people dress and act how the hell the they want to. As I said All generations are more liberal and rebellious to the last. post 60's a larger group of sub and counter cultures emerge that people follow and etc.


But I don't think you know much about the history of racism in the US worked. 1920, 1940. 1960, 1980, 2000 blacks had the same stereotypes.... it didn't matter the genre, the clothes non of that. cause all of it was relevant, no matter what blacks did became a negative stigma with it for just facts black were doing it.

Blacks shouldn't care what someone thinks about the way they dress in the first place. be a individual people should do what ever they like and appeal to them.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Agbor View Post


I think the younger people now see "blackness" as automatically ghetto...

This is an aspect of the dumb-downing of American popular culture since the 1960s. The black musical groups in the 1960s wore suits and ties, very neat and polished...The women wore elegant wigs and gowns. Think of the Supremes and the Temptations. Now it is tatoos, gold teeth and Honey Boo Boo.

Its isn't that blacks in the 20s were better off, as indeed most were poor, and Harlem was extremely over crowded with many living packed in rooming tenements. Its that they always wanted to "represent the race" which meant not being a disgrace.

Now suburban middle class black boys, who haven't suffered any experience with poverty, watch videos and think that looking like a criminal is being authentic.

You can blame Puffy, Russell Simmons, and others who said that this is "keeping it real" when in the early 80s many complained that they were offering poor role models to inner city black youths. Of course the West Coast mob were plain out criminals, and didn't even hide it, with their frequent shoot outs.

In fact all one needs to do is to listen to 80s rap to see how that genre wasn't always as degraded as it is now often promoted to be. Kid 'n Play, Public Enemy, Will Smith etc.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Also your Harlem Renaissance statement is broad. Jazz during that age was seem as edging, the turn of century the flappers women started dressing with shorter dresses, dancing became more sexualize, A lot of clubs were speak easy illegal or bars during prohibitions, many famous Jazz musicians did drugs, had have tough lives, many from New Orleans associated with the brothels of storyville New Orleans. All generations are more liberal and rebellious to the last.

.

If you wish to define yourself by a culture which glorifies violence, misogyny, etc, feel free. I do know that while the blues had its "naughty" side it wasn't as bare facedly vulgar as what we see peddled as "black culture" today.

And yes you do make a point. Prior to the 70s poor blacks were aspirational. Even though they were limited to doing to dirtiest and lowest paying jobs they determined to represent themselves with dignity. Now that we are much better off too many of us excuse self destructive behavior and find excuses for it.


Compare your average jazz musician and how they projected themselves with many of today's rappers. Note that in those days they had no bargaining power, so were quite poor, whereas more than a few of today's artists have done quite well for themselves by pimping black style and degrading it.

And yes when I hear a kid on the subway rapping lyrics that involve murder, guns, etc, that was NOT what black culture was about in times past.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Blacks shouldn't care what someone thinks about the way they dress in the first place..

I agree so when they dress sloppy and have their hair uncombed, and even BLACKS don't want to hire them then I guess you will pat them on the backs and blame society for this!

Scenes of Harlem in the past were filled with poverty, because indeed the people were poor. But what one can also see are people struggling to live lives of dignity. Cannot claim to see this going through NYCHA projects today.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
. 1920, 1940. 1960, 1980, 2000 blacks had the same stereotypes.

Whites think black men are criminals, so does this mean that black men must confirm this by dressing like criminals? Or do you think that they should prove them wrong?

And I am willing to bet that YOU don't dress like a thug, so stop excusing others who do. You got places by doing certain things, and you should urge that they do likewise.

To many of our younger black men attend the "KKK School for (N word)" and graduate with full honors. No wonder almost 30% of the young black women now have college degrees while only 10% of their male counterparts do.

There is a plot to trap young black men, and now all who do so are white.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:00 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,418,883 times
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
If you wish to define yourself by a culture which glorifies violence, misogyny, etc, feel free. I do know that while the blues had its "naughty" side it wasn't as bare facedly vulgar as what we see peddled as "black culture" today.

And yes you do make a point. Prior to the 70s poor blacks were aspirational. Even though they were limited to doing to dirtiest and lowest paying jobs they determined to represent themselves with dignity. Now that we are much better off too many of us excuse self destructive behavior and find excuses for it.


Compare your average jazz musician and how they projected themselves with many of today's rappers. Note that in those days they had no bargaining power, so were quite poor, whereas more than a few of today's artists have done quite well for themselves by pimping black style and degrading it.

And yes when I hear a kid on the subway rapping lyrics that involve murder, guns, etc, that was NOT what black culture was about in times past.
Dude we live a society that romanize volence and sexuallity in films and video games etc. The saw film franchise is thousand times more violent than an NWA album so if you want to play saint go all the way. Hip hop culture is with in the larger current pop culture.

Again I study a lot of the history of Jazz. During the time jazz was viewed as rebelious and edgy. It was pushing boundaries of what was consider appropriate. Ever generation is going to up the ante, This is a repeating pattern with history. This means what ever comes next is going to more edgy then the current hip hop, rock, and pop and etc.

Also Again Jelly Roll Martin one of most important figure in developing jazz he was a pimp at one point. Billie holiday was a prostitute and in general had a tough life, she was bisexual, did drugs and etc. Charlie Parker one of the most important figure of bebop was addicted to heroine. No I don't think you understand They in general lived a fast life. Jazz during that time was the edge. You have very inaccurate perception of jazz musicians during the age they were the rock or rap stars during the time. Older generations of both black and white denounce jazz and the whole culture during the jazz age, swing and bebop eras.
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Old 02-15-2017, 05:28 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,418,883 times
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Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Whites think black men are criminals, so does this mean that black men must confirm this by dressing like criminals? Or do you think that they should prove them wrong?

And I am willing to bet that YOU don't dress like a thug, so stop excusing others who do. You got places by doing certain things, and you should urge that they do likewise.

To many of our younger black men attend the "KKK School for (N word)" and graduate with full honors. No wonder almost 30% of the young black women now have college degrees while only 10% of their male counterparts do.

There is a plot to trap young black men, and now all who do so are white.
Yeah you got it backwards and don't get the promblem.

There's no look of a criminal.... racist are defining what a crimmial look like by how ever the black youth dress. which change depending the trend. Again before the 60s gangsters were suit and ties. In 60s bell bottom and fros were popular. In the 80s people dress color and tacky. In 90s people started wearing bangs clothes now people are wearing more fitting with draids.

If The black youth said hay lets start listening to punk rock and start dressing like rockers that will be the new criminal look according to racist.
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Old 02-21-2017, 02:53 AM
 
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Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Dude we live a society that romanize volence and sexuallity in films and video games etc. .


Tell you what. When white kids who glorify violence get shot down by cops the way that black kids do then we can chat.


The way blacks dress is literally life and death. In fact even dressed in suits they can still be murdered by cops, so imagine if they dress like society's notion of a thug!


I can only imagine why you think that some one walking around, hair uncombed, pants down to the knees and nasty underwear showing, sometimes even their butt cheeks, or upper pelvic hairs. But that is OK with you! In the 90s black kids were fashionable and ethnically "black" in their attire. In fact blacks have always led US fashion.


Now some just dress like criminals. Yes the low hanger style is from JAIL! Are you happy that style is now defined by the fact that in jail no belts are allowed, so pants hang low?
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