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Old 02-27-2017, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I always found it silly to go after drug growing countries rather than tackling the root of the problem, namely millions of drug addicts within the US and Europe. Where there is demand, there is supply. Drug addicts suck, those weak, stupid people that just can't take life as it is and try to improve their situation in a sober way. Addicts also have blood on their hands, not just criminal drug traffickers. The term "recreational drugs" for instance is a joke that belittles vice.
Not that people in drug producing countries don't do drugs, and haven't done drugs for centuries. People in South America always chewed the leaves of the coca leaf and made tea from it. In the 20th century the US made a concentrated form of cocaine. Ditto for the concentrated forms of opium, like heroine. Of course people around the world always drank too, and alcohol addiction is certainly a problem.

Some sort of addiction touches nearly the lives of everyone, and if people get off their high horse they'd admit that people in their circle of family and friends are involved.

Keep in mind the war on drugs falsifies what a drug is. Coffee is a drug. So is tea (caffeine). You can even by super concentrated caffeine.

Drug use (depending on the drug) isn't necessarily bad, and currently in the US a lot of people are dying or having major issues due to prescription opiates.

Back to Africa, people in East Africa chew khat, so it's not like you don't have drugs native to Africa. And of course there's always booze. And marijuana is everywhere.

Just pointing out drug use is not an American or a European thing, it's global. Lots of Caribbeans smoke ganja.
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Old 02-27-2017, 10:59 AM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
6,898 posts, read 4,230,790 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I always found it silly to go after drug growing countries rather than tackling the root of the problem, namely millions of drug addicts within the US and Europe. Where there is demand, there is supply. Drug addicts suck, those weak, stupid people that just can't take life as it is and try to improve their situation in a sober way. Addicts also have blood on their hands, not just criminal drug traffickers. The term "recreational drugs" for instance is a joke that belittles vice.
That is a learning process for most they just don't have the skills(learning to live sober is a skill) and some of them are just too far gone. I discuss relapse prevention with addicts this is a multifaceted complex issue. I see this first hand the focus(including funding) in the USA is currently on punishment not treatment. Addiction is largely a mental health issue in part, and insulting them doesn't help they already don't like themselves. The focus should be on identifying the one's that can benefit from treatment and give them the tools to live drug free lives. Everything currently is set up to ensure that they will fail especially if they have a record too many people profiting. It's all about the dollar in the US.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:05 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,366 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Not that people in drug producing countries don't do drugs, and haven't done drugs for centuries. People in South America always chewed the leaves of the coca leaf and made tea from it. In the 20th century the US made a concentrated form of cocaine. Ditto for the concentrated forms of opium, like heroine. Of course people around the world always drank too, and alcohol addiction is certainly a problem.

Some sort of addiction touches nearly the lives of everyone, and if people get off their high horse they'd admit that people in their circle of family and friends are involved.

Keep in mind the war on drugs falsifies what a drug is. Coffee is a drug. So is tea (caffeine). You can even by super concentrated caffeine.

Drug use (depending on the drug) isn't necessarily bad, and currently in the US a lot of people are dying or having major issues due to prescription opiates.

Back to Africa, people in East Africa chew khat, so it's not like you don't have drugs native to Africa. And of course there's always booze. And marijuana is everywhere.

Just pointing out drug use is not an American or a European thing, it's global. Lots of Caribbeans smoke ganja.
Indeed, but Indios have chewed such leaves for hundreds or thousands of years. It does not destroy the body and mind.
Completely different story with our modern destructive drugs.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,366 posts, read 19,297,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
That is a learning process for most they just don't have the skills(learning to live sober is a skill) and some of them are just too far gone. I discuss relapse prevention with addicts this is a multifaceted complex issue. I see this first hand the focus(including funding) in the USA is currently on punishment not treatment. Addiction is largely a mental health issue in part, and insulting them doesn't help they already don't like themselves. The focus should be on identifying the one's that can benefit from treatment and give them the tools to live drug free lives. Everything currently is set up to ensure that they will fail especially if they have a record too many people profiting. It's all about the dollar in the US.
The focus should be on preventing people from ever getting started with drugs in the first place. Once they are addicted, it is often too late.
But that is a societal problem as people start to take drugs for different reasons such as excessive stress, boredom, the wish to be cool, etc.

I am not insulting addicts, I just despise them.
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Old 02-27-2017, 11:52 AM
AFP AFP started this thread
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The focus should be on preventing people from ever getting started with drugs in the first place. Once they are addicted, it is often too late.
But that is a societal problem as people start to take drugs for different reasons such as excessive stress, boredom, the wish to be cool, etc.

I am not insulting addicts, I just despise them.


In addition I would say lack of marketable job skills, poverty(connected to poor nutrition and poor reading skills), add high rates of a history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse, low self esteem, absentee fathers and dysfunctional family dynamics this all play a role. In the case of black Americans add racism on top of that.
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Old 02-27-2017, 12:05 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Indeed, lots of societal ills that make weak people do stupid things. But nobody really does anything about them because they are the flip side of other people's success, of our entire social-Darwinist system. We accept that a certain percentage of the population goes down the drain because we are basically taught that our responsibility ends with our kin. And it is on purpose, especially in a country like the US, where social is deliberately confused with socialist, and hence looked down upon.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:04 PM
 
24,192 posts, read 17,579,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Indeed, lots of societal ills that make weak people do stupid things. But nobody really does anything about them because they are the flip side of other people's success, of our entire social-Darwinist system. We accept that a certain percentage of the population goes down the drain because we are basically taught that our responsibility ends with our kin. And it is on purpose, especially in a country like the US, where social is deliberately confused with socialist, and hence looked down upon.
I know very successful people who do drugs. It happens all over.

The majority of people have done at least more than one kind of drug.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:07 PM
 
24,192 posts, read 17,579,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Indeed, but Indios have chewed such leaves for hundreds or thousands of years. It does not destroy the body and mind.
Completely different story with our modern destructive drugs.
Cocaine enabled them to work all day, stay alert, and eat less. Cocaine does the same thing. You just have to chew more leaves to get the effect, versus with powered cocaine you take a couple of hits. There's actually no difference beyond the AMOUNT you need to get high.

People got messed up on marijuana, opium, and other drugs for centuries, and there are certain teas the natives in Brazil took to get halluncinations as a part of their religious ceremonies.

Then there's peyote.

Nicotine, a drug, came from the Natives of North America.

Not to mention Khat in East Africa.

Opium comes from Asia, and before the West learned how to concentrate it, let's just say it caused issues.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:09 PM
 
24,192 posts, read 17,579,330 times
Reputation: 9149
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
In addition I would say lack of marketable job skills, poverty(connected to poor nutrition and poor reading skills), add high rates of a history of emotional, physical and sexual abuse, low self esteem, absentee fathers and dysfunctional family dynamics this all play a role. In the case of black Americans add racism on top of that.
There's a heavy rate of substance abuse among white americans, and they mostly have two father families.

Drug abuse is prevalent in Latin America.

So no, it has nothing to do with racism or absentee fathers, or a lack of education.

Lots of Hollywood celebrities to drugs. Lots of people on Wall Street do drugs. Lots of people in the tech sector and other wealthy sectors do drugs.

It has nothing to do with poverty.

People take the stuff because it makes them feel good.
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Old 02-27-2017, 01:29 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,366 posts, read 19,297,224 times
Reputation: 8483
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I know very successful people who do drugs. It happens all over.

The majority of people have done at least more than one kind of drug.
I know only a single person that has a drug problem, I mean real drugs.
Some drugs are worse than others. I know people who drink wine on a regular basis, but despite being alcohol, they are not drug addicts. But when you start shooting heroine, it is a very different story. There is no healthy dose of heroine, unlike with wine. Not to mention meth and all those designer drugs. They are all horrible, without exception and regardless of the amount used.



Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Cocaine enabled them to work all day, stay alert, and eat less. Cocaine does the same thing. You just have to chew more leaves to get the effect, versus with powered cocaine you take a couple of hits. There's actually no difference beyond the AMOUNT you need to get high.

People got messed up on marijuana, opium, and other drugs for centuries, and there are certain teas the natives in Brazil took to get halluncinations as a part of their religious ceremonies.

Then there's peyote.

Nicotine, a drug, came from the Natives of North America.

Not to mention Khat in East Africa.

Opium comes from Asia, and before the West learned how to concentrate it, let's just say it caused issues.
But those more natural drugs are much less concentrated than what we refer to as drugs in the West today. After all, the indios did not have a social security system, they could not afford to have useless, criminal junkies in their societies.
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