U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-01-2019, 03:13 AM
 
24,476 posts, read 17,932,490 times
Reputation: 9280

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
@Sharif662 @Chicagoland60426

I found one of the studies I was talking about. This study shows that the main ancestry of AAs are Yoruba followed by Sahelian Mandenka and then Bantu Central African(Congolese).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corecgi...1&s=20&r=1&c=3

The dark red is Yoruba. The orange is Mandenka and the light blue/green is Bantu.

Source:
Characterizing the admixed African ancestry of African Americans


All in all we were all correct. However, only thing that was taboo was significant "Beninese" ancestry in AAs which most likely is "Yoruba." Anyways I was correct about Mandenka/Sahelian ancestry in AAs. Even tho that wasn't my main argument. But scroll down to table 1 in the link/study you'll see that the African ancestries vary from USA regions. Of course different genetic studies vary on ancestry.
The biggest group in my DNA is Nigerian. 44 percent. My heritage is does not classify as ethnic group, but as regional. Thereís some Congolese, Sierra Leone, and there is some Kenyan in there too.

So yes, not the majority of my ancestors but from that there would have been Sahelians in my ancestry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-01-2019, 03:22 AM
 
24,476 posts, read 17,932,490 times
Reputation: 9280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
Islam spread in West Africa via two phases. The very first wave was by Berber traders to the Ghana Empire around the 9-10th century. And the Hausas in Northern Nigeria/Niger were apart of that phase and were already "Islamicized" by then. Islam has been in Northern Nigeria for a long time. And Hausa culture is not even completely "Islamicized" like say the Northern Sudanese people. I'm beginning to believe you have a very simple concept of African culture. I.e any African culture that has Islam in it has been "Islamicized." This time I'm going to go in depth if this to put this to rest once in for all. Are you not aware that Islam in West Africa is quite different from Islam from MENA? Even Berber traveler Ibn Battuta noted it.

He noted it because West Africans sync their Islam with traditional African beliefs from Mali, Sierra Leone, Guinea, Northern Nigeria, Senegal, etc. Islam is just a religion it is not a culture. So you trying to dismiss the influence of Sahelian culture on AA culture due to AAs culture/religion not having any Islamic elements is not only a waste of time but tiring. More importantly the Bambara people who are a subgroup of the Mandinka who were apart of the nobles of the Mali Empire have been Muslim for a very long time(since the Mali empire) and have art like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmYAcQcF3OQ

^Art like the above is not typical of Islamic art and at worse is seen as idolatry. In fact many West African Muslims have forms of idolatry which was why Timbuktu's culture was attacked by those Jihadist savages. Also women of Mali, Senegal, Northern Nigeria, etc have more rights and don't even need to wear a hijab. Which a again is atypical of Islam. Don't believe? Then how about we see what Ibn Battuta states:


Ibn Battuta in West Africa

And there are more examples. So tell me how is that "Islamicized"? Anyways, the second wave which helped Islam spread further in West Africa outside of known territories here Islam was the majority was done by West African jihadist themselves. I.e Fulani jihadist like the Sokoto caliphate. So no there was no mythical "Arab imperialism" in West Africa if that's what your thinking. As for the Yorubas many still practice their traditional especially the rural parts of Yorubaland. More importantly they are known to sync Islam/Christianity with their traditional beliefs. Traditional African religions is known for being easily able to sync with other beliefs. We see this in the new world.... All in all fact is you are not as informed on African history, culture or religion as you like to believe yourself to. You think Sahalien culture is stoning women to death for adultry. I know you going to call me a "Muslim wannabe" lol... But its clear you have a bias/agenda against Islam and as an extension project it on Africans who practice it. I don't care for Islam and would never convert to that religion(sorry I love to drink and love pork ribs) however if you were a true "Pan-Africanists" you'd know West African Muslims are just as "West African" culturally as any other West African. Your agenda reeks stronger when you even dismiss the obvious West African sahelian influence on AA culture as me or other AAs "wanting to be Muslims" or "having self-hate." Once again religion=/=culture. Islam would have not been able to survive as a spiritual belief among the slaves in the Protestant American south but the Sahelian culture norms such as cattle culture or musical styles would





Np.

Yes, it can be a "reoccurring" region but is it the average? The majority of the AA population has not even been sampled. More importantly individual results are not enough. I can also show you many of examples of AAs showing more Cameroonian ancestry consistently.

Until we get a larger sample size of AAs tracing their ancestries(and I mean via ethnic groups) then its mostly guessing at this point.






Yet the non-Ewa/Mina outsizes it in percentages.





Not only that I remember reading a study saying that African-Americans have a large amount of Yoruba ancestry. Either way AncestryDNA is not really a good indicator for ancestry if you want to look deep. Yes, AncestryDNA is most likely allocating the Yoruba as "Benin/Togo." More importantly AncestryDNA doesn't even have a Sierra Leone, Guinea or Liberia component. And iirc another example of some of AncestryDNA components being mixed up is that the North African component is "mixed" with some non-indignous Arab ancestry which is why some North Africans can score 75% "North African" on AncestryDNA. GEDmatch on the other hand separates this aboriginal NA ancestry. So yea AncestryDNA needs to fix/add some components. Not only that they need to add mtDNA and Y-DNA which would give us even more clues.....
I know actually quite a bit about various phases of the spread of Islam in West Africa.

Dan Fodio waged his jihads in the late 1770s and early 2800s. Those were West African jihadists yes, Fulanis.

https://www.thoughtco.com/uthman-dan...aliphate-44244

However Islam entered North Africa via Arab conquest. It entered the kingdom of Mali when Mansa Musa. Josť to convert. The masses didnít convert until much later.

With that said your typical AA Southern is a Baptist(not all, many Catholics in Louisiana and Maryland). Nothing of African religions, Islam, or anything of that nature remains among AAs. They do eat some foods imported from Africa like okra.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 04:44 AM
 
136 posts, read 18,381 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
The biggest group in my DNA is Nigerian. 44 percent. My heritage is does not classify as ethnic group, but as regional. Thereís some Congolese, Sierra Leone, and there is some Kenyan in there too.

So yes, not the majority of my ancestors but from that there would have been Sahelians in my ancestry.
Makes sense as as many Aframs have some sort of Nigerian ancestry. But question is which ethnic group?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 05:21 AM
 
136 posts, read 18,381 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I know actually quite a bit about various phases of the spread of Islam in West Africa.

Dan Fodio waged his jihads in the late 1770s and early 2800s. Those were West African jihadists yes, Fulanis.

https://www.thoughtco.com/uthman-dan...aliphate-44244

However Islam entered North Africa via Arab conquest. It entered the kingdom of Mali when Mansa Musa. Josť to convert. The masses didn’t convert until much later.
North Africa is not West Africa. The latter in which we are discussing. Islam during its first phase in entering Africa entered it via trade from Muslim Berbers. Which was why Islam in West Africa had its own "spin" as I've shown. This was not the same for North Africa which had a more strict and traditional Islam imposed on them. Even the Islam that the Fulanis tried to furtherm impose on non-Muslim Africans was not really traditional Islam. Look at Yoruba Muslims today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
With that said your typical AA Southern is a Baptist(not all, many Catholics in Louisiana and Maryland). Nothing of African religions, Islam, or anything of that nature remains among AAs. They do eat some foods imported from Africa like okra.
Once again you are missing the point. You know what? I blame myself for coming off as aggressive and irritated when I should've had more patience. Forget the words "Islams" or "Muslims" because like I said religious influence=/=cultural influence. The latter in which I am talking about. I never cared for talking about "Islam." My argument was never based around "Islam." The word "Islam" is a misnomer and again I should've been clear. I only meant "Muslim West Africans" to make it simple to describe Africans from the Sahel/Savannah areas since that area is/was majority Muslim. But again forget about the term "Islam." What I am really addressing are non-coastal Upper West Africans from the Sahel.

No duh African-Americans are majority Christians. I mean is the USA not a majority Christian nation? This is what I mean with you getting off track. Any non-Christian belief during slavery would've have been weeded out by the slave masters/overseers and this includes Islam! Many scholars have noted this especially Professor Sylviane A. Diouf(who's non Muslim btw and so bias projection won't work) in her well received book "Servant of Allah." Hell, Islam would've been extremely difficult to practice during slavery as noted by many scholars which is why it was hard to pass down to the next generation. Even so you still had some early Afram Muslims in the Gullah sea islands but the religion soon died out/vanished due to not being passed on. Once again this has not only been attested to by scholars but the Gullahs themselves. But once again "Islam" is irrelevant to my argument. Trying to find Muslim on African-Americans is irrelevant as that was never my point.

Islam was weeded out from those Sahelian slaves. However.... Their musical styles, instruments, call and shouts, cattle culture(which later evolved to cowboy culture), food, rice cultivation style, etc, etc managed to survive unlike the Coastal West African/Congo influence which was seen as a threat and weeded out(i.e the drums). Heck Congolese slaves were soon banned from USA due to being rebelliousness. This is why the Sahelian influence outlived the Congo and Coastal West African one because it was not seen as a "threat." Drumming was seen more as a threat instead of an West African fiddle. This is similar to how the Yoruba influence outlived the Angolan/Congolese influence among Afro-Brazilians even tho Afro-Brazilians are mainly Angolan/Congolese!

I find it rather strange that you are willing to admit the African influence regarding food like Okra but are aggressively dismissive to the very obvious Sahalian roots of the Blues...


Quote:
"The absence of polyrhythm and asymmetric time-lines and the presence of emphasis instead of off-beats in blues and early jazz are also characteristic of Sahel music. On the other hand, the music of the rain forest and the Congo with its heavy emphasis on drumming is characterized by polyrhythms and asymmetric time-lines and its influence is reflected in the black music of the Caribbean and South America.[52] Arguments that the drum was prohibited in the U.S. and that enslaved Africans lived in closer proximity to whites are not persuasive because drums are not the only means to express polyrhythms and the cultural impulse for polyrhythm would not have been totally stifled by the influence of white culture. A more plausible answer is the influence of Sahel culture in the development of African American music
MANA - Muslim Alliance in North America


Like I said I'm going to be patient with you and explain everything for you. But first notice how the quote never mentioned "Islam" as the influence. They said, "influence of Sahel culture" instead. Why is that? Moving on what they mean with polyrhythm is that the Caribbean/Latin America African descendants were influenced by this type of source of African musical styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDK8iqp38o&t=2s

While this off-beat more vocal focused style is what influenced Aframs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Y3f9H41RU

^^The instrument that one of the men are playing actually made it to the USA as I have shown!
Quote:
The "diddley bow" is similiar to an African one-string instrument. It may well have been the first instrument that produced the sound of sliding rhythm and the whines and cries of a single string that later became the distinctive sound known today as the "Blues". It was common to the rural south in the 1800's and was made by taking a piece of broom or cotton wire and stretching it between two nails tied to the side of a wooden frame house, with a bottle or "snuff can" wedged under the wire to create tension for pitch. The string was plucked while sliding a piece of metal or glass on it to produce notes.
https://www.sablues.org/feature/features8.htm

Quote:
The diddley bow may have been the first instrument that produced the sound of sliding rhythm and the whines and cries of a single string that later became the distinctive sound known today as the "Blues". It was common to the rural south in the 1800's and was made by taking a piece of broom or cotton wire and stretching it between two nails tied to the side of a wooden frame house, with a bottle or "snuff can" wedged under the wire to create tension for pitch. The string was plucked while sliding a piece of metal or glass on it to produce notes. The "diddley bow" is similiar to an African one-string instrument that was called an "Umakweyana."
https://www.littletobywalker.com/diddley-bow.html

Seriously, what gives? If it makes you and others feel better, Islam never had a significant presence among Aframs not during slavery and not during now. However, denying the obvious Sahelian influence on Afram culture when many scholars attest to it is downright "revisionism" on you guy's part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 05:59 AM
 
24,476 posts, read 17,932,490 times
Reputation: 9280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
North Africa is not West Africa. The latter in which we are discussing. Islam during its first phase in entering Africa entered it via trade from Muslim Berbers. Which was why Islam in West Africa had its own "spin" as I've shown. This was not the same for North Africa which had a more strict and traditional Islam imposed on them. Even the Islam that the Fulanis tried to furtherm impose on non-Muslim Africans was not really traditional Islam. Look at Yoruba Muslims today.




Once again you are missing the point. You know what? I blame myself for coming off as aggressive and irritated when I should've had more patience. Forget the words "Islams" or "Muslims" because like I said religious influence=/=cultural influence. The latter in which I am talking about. I never cared for talking about "Islam." My argument was never based around "Islam." The word "Islam" is a misnomer and again I should've been clear. I only meant "Muslim West Africans" to make it simple to describe Africans from the Sahel/Savannah areas since that area is/was majority Muslim. But again forget about the term "Islam." What I am really addressing are non-coastal Upper West Africans from the Sahel.

No duh African-Americans are majority Christians. I mean is the USA not a majority Christian nation? This is what I mean with you getting off track. Any non-Christian belief during slavery would've have been weeded out by the slave masters/overseers and this includes Islam! Many scholars have noted this especially Professor Sylviane A. Diouf(who's non Muslim btw and so bias projection won't work) in her well received book "Servant of Allah." Hell, Islam would've been extremely difficult to practice during slavery as noted by many scholars which is why it was hard to pass down to the next generation. Even so you still had some early Afram Muslims in the Gullah sea islands but the religion soon died out/vanished due to not being passed on. Once again this has not only been attested to by scholars but the Gullahs themselves. But once again "Islam" is irrelevant to my argument. Trying to find Muslim on African-Americans is irrelevant as that was never my point.

Islam was weeded out from those Sahelian slaves. However.... Their musical styles, instruments, call and shouts, cattle culture(which later evolved to cowboy culture), food, rice cultivation style, etc, etc managed to survive unlike the Coastal West African/Congo influence which was seen as a threat and weeded out(i.e the drums). Heck Congolese slaves were soon banned from USA due to being rebelliousness. This is why the Sahelian influence outlived the Congo and Coastal West African one because it was not seen as a "threat." Drumming was seen more as a threat instead of an West African fiddle. This is similar to how the Yoruba influence outlived the Angolan/Congolese influence among Afro-Brazilians even tho Afro-Brazilians are mainly Angolan/Congolese!

I find it rather strange that you are willing to admit the African influence regarding food like Okra but are aggressively dismissive to the very obvious Sahalian roots of the Blues...



MANA - Muslim Alliance in North America


Like I said I'm going to be patient with you and explain everything for you. But first notice how the quote never mentioned "Islam" as the influence. They said, "influence of Sahel culture" instead. Why is that? Moving on what they mean with polyrhythm is that the Caribbean/Latin America African descendants were influenced by this type of source of African musical styles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVDK8iqp38o&t=2s

While this off-beat more vocal focused style is what influenced Aframs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Y3f9H41RU

^^The instrument that one of the men are playing actually made it to the USA as I have shown!

https://www.sablues.org/feature/features8.htm


https://www.littletobywalker.com/diddley-bow.html

Seriously, what gives? If it makes you and others feel better, Islam never had a significant presence among Aframs not during slavery and not during now. However, denying the obvious Sahelian influence on Afram culture when many scholars attest to it is downright "revisionism" on you guy's part.
Rice is cultivated in South Carolina and in Louisiana today and yes that is something g definitely linked to the Sahel. Rice is an important food crop in the Sabel and of course the agricultural skills of Africans were used to grow not only rice, but okra as mentioned.

I will have to do further research on the musical links.

Another similarity between rural AAs and Sahelian farmers love their cows. The cattle raising expertise of Sahelian Muslims would have been as useful as their rice growing experience.

All sorts if things were grown on Southern plantations. Even sugarcane was important.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e-slavery.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 06:18 AM
 
136 posts, read 18,381 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Rice is cultivated in South Carolina and in Louisiana today and yes that is something g definitely linked to the Sahel. Rice is an important food crop in the Sabel and of course the agricultural skills of Africans were used to grow not only rice, but okra as mentioned.

I will have to do further research on the musical links.

Another similarity between rural AAs and Sahelian farmers love their cows. The cattle raising expertise of Sahelian Muslims would have been as useful as their rice growing experience.

All sorts if things were grown on Southern plantations. Even sugarcane was important.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...e-slavery.html

Listen I apologize for the rude comments I made towards you. I just get irritated when people(especially non-Blacks like those Dominican posters) who not only try to act as an authority on Afram culture(while calling those "Afrocentrics" who dare speak up for their culture) but more importantly trying to shame Afram culture as being "deAfricanized" to mask their anti-African agenda. When in fact rural traditional Afram culture does have African elements just from a different source. Yes, Afram culture is obviously not the most African culture in the Americas. That would be laughable trying to argue. And with urbanization we lost more of our traditional rural culture. But fact is the foundation of our culture is West African Sahel.

Yes, rice cultivation comes from Senegambia. In fact slave traders from the Carolinas, Georgia and I believe Lousiana like you mentioned preferred slaves from that area. Which is why the Carolinas Aframs have high Senegambian ancestry unlike other Aframs.

And yes the cattle culture among rural AAs descends from those from the Sahel. So again, I apologize for the rudeness. But more importantly I was NOT repeat NOT trying to "islamize" African-American culture. That would be ridiculous. But yes you should research the Blues history and its roots in West Africa. Its a very interesting story that even West African musicians noted the similarities themselves.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 01:13 PM
 
24,476 posts, read 17,932,490 times
Reputation: 9280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
Listen I apologize for the rude comments I made towards you. I just get irritated when people(especially non-Blacks like those Dominican posters) who not only try to act as an authority on Afram culture(while calling those "Afrocentrics" who dare speak up for their culture) but more importantly trying to shame Afram culture as being "deAfricanized" to mask their anti-African agenda. When in fact rural traditional Afram culture does have African elements just from a different source. Yes, Afram culture is obviously not the most African culture in the Americas. That would be laughable trying to argue. And with urbanization we lost more of our traditional rural culture. But fact is the foundation of our culture is West African Sahel.

Yes, rice cultivation comes from Senegambia. In fact slave traders from the Carolinas, Georgia and I believe Lousiana like you mentioned preferred slaves from that area. Which is why the Carolinas Aframs have high Senegambian ancestry unlike other Aframs.

And yes the cattle culture among rural AAs descends from those from the Sahel. So again, I apologize for the rudeness. But more importantly I was NOT repeat NOT trying to "islamize" African-American culture. That would be ridiculous. But yes you should research the Blues history and its roots in West Africa. Its a very interesting story that even West African musicians noted the similarities themselves.
Thank you for the apologies.

Iím just a generation from rural Southern farmers. Up until the 60s and 70s for the most part with some exceptions that was all most AAs could do.

So itís easy for me to see the connection between Fulani herders and African American herders or Sahelian rice growing and rice farming in Louisiana and South Carolina. The whole point of African slavery is that they were skilled farmers.

And okra is huge in the South and one of the most widely known African imports. So is watermelon.

My grandfather grew sugarcane in his own land and on the land of others. Thatís not all my family grew for my generations. Our family still has the estates.

My maternal grandparents did cattle farming too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2019, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Tupelo, Ms
1,230 posts, read 709,887 times
Reputation: 762
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADOSwarrior View Post
@Sharif662 @Chicagoland60426

I found one of the studies I was talking about. This study shows that the main ancestry of AAs are Yoruba followed by Sahelian Mandenka and then Bantu Central African(Congolese).


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/corecgi...1&s=20&r=1&c=3

The dark red is Yoruba. The orange is Mandenka and the light blue/green is Bantu.

Source:
Characterizing the admixed African ancestry of African Americans


All in all we were all correct. However, only thing that was taboo was significant "Beninese" ancestry in AAs which most likely is "Yoruba." Anyways I was correct about Mandenka/Sahelian ancestry in AAs. Even tho that wasn't my main argument. But scroll down to table 1 in the link/study you'll see that the African ancestries vary from USA regions. Of course different genetic studies vary on ancestry.
Your first link didn't display well.
It doesn't say that Yoruba , Mandenka, or Congolese are tge main ancestry but the regions of Aframs roots comes primary from the regions. You mentioned sample size and the link you shared stated there was 100+ Aframs participants. As you said we need a much larger numbers of participants and so far it will be these DNA tests ( based on number of Aframs participants). Just saying the more Aframs & Africans that do volunteer the more information will be available in the future. Of course the high admixture over the centuries will make it a challenge.
Btw, The link's 10+ years old so let's see what new , if any , update they have.

Congolese should be a plurality/significant ancestry more so than any goups from the sengambia region. Based on the portions of slaves taken from west central africa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-07-2019, 12:49 PM
 
5,256 posts, read 4,730,622 times
Reputation: 1607
These are the descendants of nubian olmecs & other divine children of the sun?



Akinyele - Just Put It In My Mouth

LOL, the plantation generations, the afrocentrics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2019, 09:47 PM
 
3,965 posts, read 2,115,217 times
Reputation: 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Nothing of African religions, Islam, or anything of that nature remains among AAs.

This is not true, and this is the problem with "multiracial" blacks. You don't really know the culture. Philadelphia has a sizeable Muslim population, and much as they are discounted, the NOI is still active. They don't practice Arab Islam. Whether it's "African" is up for debate, but it's clear they do their own thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top