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I think people might need to make a distinction between what is generally African-BASED vs. an authentic African culture...
For example, in the videos above, the religious dancing in the church is African based, maybe a combination of dances from different cultures from Senegal to Angola. But culturally, it is American in a Christian church called the Holy Dance.
Diaspora black cultures may have similar based habits in their cultures which are African based, but not related to a specific
African culture. Now, I have seen West Africans visit Black American churches and appreciate the services. They got up and danced with the rest of the people when the Dance broke out. But culturally, they were still Ibo or Yoruba.
Music, singing and dancing seem to have the strongest African influences among Diaspora Blacks, but specific African cultures
are deeper than just singing, dancing and music.
You missed the point, My point was because of influences from traditional African culture evolve created something new. especially given pop culture. If it was for these partly traditional African influence these newer evolution couldn't have happen. My point was the legacy the butterfly effect. Different groups of people of African ancestry took their heritage and created new things. Different groups took these influences in different directions. Awareness of these connection would bring more appreciation to tradition African cultures that came before.
The reason black people say "African" so much because their are no other term that connects influences and ancestry back to the native African groups. So Black people used the term "African" the way whites use the term Caucasian or the phrase western culture. Not just the way whites use the term European.
"Western culture, sometimes equated with Western civilization, Western lifestyle or European civilization, is a term used very broadly to refer to a heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies that have some origin or association with Europe."
Square dancing is from Europe but in America in wouldn't be seem as European European means in Europe but rather Western heritage. Western means heritage from Europe.
Also if it's an church............ it's clearly not just singing and dancing. clearly the singing and dancing has a deep meaning. It's religious expression, African Americans took they ancestors concept of how you should praise a deity and converted it in new religion. In the US Slave holders wanted slaves to be christian they didn't teach slaves how to praise because churches were segregated. Later Blacks American started applying the aesthetic to secular dancing and music. But so did Blacks in Africa with Afro beat and African Rumba and etc. Their were not traditional African dances, but rather traditional African influence the aesthetic. Which help created modern pop culture in the Americas, Africa and beyond.
In Latin countries it's not through religion were musical African influence come in they are Catholic countries, but more directed as they was allowed to practice their African cultures to a further extent, drumming and etc. And also a higher rate which slaves arrived from Africa.
There is also an accent connection between the West Indies and West Africa.
Belizean Kriol, Jamaican Patois, Bajan Creole, Trinidadian Creole as well as American Gullah with west african pidgin english, this is why the West Indian and West African accent have a similarity.
Technically, black Africans sold other Africans as commodity,so I don't think Africans ever gave a damn about Africans in North America, not from the beginning. Pan Africanism is very much a product of the African American inferiority complex. Africa is a large diverse place, the concept of Pan Africanism is ridiculous.
I spent some time in the US as a child and after I moved back to my native country I was still accepted, I got lectures everyday reminding me that I was not American. I really don't know about Africans, perhaps they don't think blood is important.
Hmm, kind of similar to Zionism and Eurocentrism perhaps?
Technically, black Africans sold other Africans as commodity,so I don't think Africans ever gave a damn about Africans in North America, not from the beginning. Pan Africanism is very much a product of the African American inferiority complex. Africa is a large diverse place, the concept of Pan Africanism is ridiculous.
I spent some time in the US as a child and after I moved back to my native country I was still accepted, I got lectures everyday reminding me that I was not American. I really don't know about Africans, perhaps they don't think blood is important.
This is an old post but I going replied because it was brought up, Africans sold Africans but they didn't sell their own group, Africans so captives of different Africans groups. So Oyo people might have solid Benin people, and Benin people might have solid Oyo people. But they didn't want their own people taken into slavery. The slave trade in Africa was largely a by product of war.
But no There is no sole definition to pan Africanism it can means anything regarding to two Black population communicating.
It mean Nigerian to Ghanaian
Afro West Indians to Afro Brazilians
Because of poverty and the history of oppression Black people have low awareness of other Blacks groups
Whites are not as conscious of European history but because school are required to teach European history anyways.
Whites are not as conscious of what other whites are doing because with white living in first world countries capitalism will favor spreading the news, and cultural movements. That why hot in UK music scene will be known in the US.
For Blacks to know African history or to be aware of other Black groups some one Black has to be conscious. I learn so much about African history and the cultures of different blacks groups that schools don't teach and the media would had other wise ignore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DivergentIntel
Hmm, kind of similar to Zionism and Eurocentrism perhaps?
There's a separation between a white racist from some one white who may like a British band, Paris fashion, studying European history, learning a European cuisine, or art and dance. or even want learn their own roots
But the monument some black American even utter Africa the right wing try to generalize them as racist or Afrocentric. That's like calling a little girl learning ballet racist or reading the little mermaid racist because it's danish.
I believe on the far right side of the political spectrum their are conservatives who have a white guilt complex. They feel or believe the world thinks white people are evil so they try to get even by creating false equalavents of the amount of Black racists.
Not that someone black can't be racist, but rather than the text book definition of racism of believing racial supremacy, they made of their own definition generalizing any one black who even utter Africa as racist. So it become no difference between some one Black who want to learn about their heritage or history from some black who hate or racist to to white people.
By that logic would make every white European history teacher racist, White chief that cook European dishes, writing books like game of thrones as racist. and etc. All which is silly and untrue statement. White do celebrate their heritage the whole concept of western culture is center around European heritage and their ties with each other.
Black people have ancestry in Africa, so some have interest and wanting to learn African history and culture it's not rocket science.
Point is a Black girl wanting to learn a African dance should be view no different than if white girl took ballet.
You missed the point, My point was because of influences from traditional African culture evolve created something new. especially given pop culture. If it was for these partly traditional African influence these newer evolution couldn't have happen. My point was the legacy the butterfly effect. Different groups of people of African ancestry took their heritage and created new things. Different groups took these influences in different directions. Awareness of these connection would bring more appreciation to tradition African cultures that came before.
The reason black people say "African" so much because their are no other term that connects influences and ancestry back to the native African groups. So Black people used the term "African" the way whites use the term Caucasian or the phrase western culture. Not just the way whites use the term European.
"Western culture, sometimes equated with Western civilization, Western lifestyle or European civilization, is a term used very broadly to refer to a heritage of social norms, ethical values, traditional customs, belief systems, political systems, and specific artifacts and technologies that have some origin or association with Europe."
Square dancing is from Europe but in America in wouldn't be seem as European European means in Europe but rather Western heritage. Western means heritage from Europe.
Also if it's an church............ it's clearly not just singing and dancing. clearly the singing and dancing has a deep meaning. It's religious expression, African Americans took they ancestors concept of how you should praise a deity and converted it in new religion. In the US Slave holders wanted slaves to be christian they didn't teach slaves how to praise because churches were segregated. Later Blacks American started applying the aesthetic to secular dancing and music. But so did Blacks in Africa with Afro beat and African Rumba and etc. Their were not traditional African dances, but rather traditional African influence the aesthetic. Which help created modern pop culture in the Americas, Africa and beyond.
In Latin countries it's not through religion were musical African influence come in they are Catholic countries, but more directed as they was allowed to practice their African cultures to a further extent, drumming and etc. And also a higher rate which slaves arrived from Africa.
I agree with everything that was stated above, my point was that some in the Diaspora fall into the trap of saying they are "African" and do so from a superficial level. They may meet Africans or go to Africa and get shocked when they are considered "white." The dynamic is this: In white majority countries, the alienation of a created racial gap is very wide due to white racism. Black identity is at the forefront.
In majority black or all-black societies "Black" is not an important identity. Ethnicity is the primary identity. Once in Africa, I think "Black" or "African" identity or heritage means nothing, Yoruba, Edo, Fon, etc. carry more weight than being "Black". I think Pan African heritage only matters a great deal in majority white societies where blacks are marginalized because of their Black or African heritage.
Some Black Americans or other Diaspora blacks go to Africa soon realize how Western they really are and some of the customs they might not be able to deal with.
I think what the issue is Americans say " I am Italian, African, Polish American " To actual people from those parts of the world they are thinking "These people are American" there is NOTHING Italian, African or Polish about them...After the 3rd
generation, culturally they are Americans.
Now when some Black Americans want to celebrate their African heritage some get upset and think it is being nationalistic and they should just be "American"
I agree with everything that was stated above, my point was that some in the Diaspora fall into the trap of saying they are "African" and do so from a superficial level. They may meet Africans or go to Africa and get shocked when they are considered "white." The dynamic is this: In white majority countries, the alienation of a created racial gap is very wide due to white racism. Black identity is at the forefront.
The problem as said before there are no terms to reference "Western culture" or "Caucasian" apply to Blacks.
That why some blacks use the term "African" the way the word "Caucasian" is being used.
The African in African American is not referring to nationality but saying they are ancestry of Yoruba, Igbo, Mande and etc decent people. If there was another term to refer to people who have native ancestry to Africa blacks would use that.
The reason some black American get insulted it's one thing to say they a Black American is not Nigerian. It's another to say they are not black or African decent. But I think Black Americans should take that with a grain of salt. For one is related to ignorance I get to that below. And for two Blacks in Africa are not ours ancestors. You don't need approval from Blacks in Africa to celebrate your heritage. That's like a white American looking for approval from Ireland to celebrate St patrick's day.
But As said take ignorance with a grain of salt usually more educated Africans have a more possitive view and more open minded to Black Americans. It's the same way reverse Some one from Africa can run into poorly educated black Americans in America and get insulted and etc.
Quote:
In majority black or all-black societies "Black" is not an important identity. Ethnicity is the primary identity. Once in Africa, I think "Black" or "African" identity or heritage means nothing, Yoruba, Edo, Fon, etc. carry more weight than being "Black". I think Pan African heritage only matters a great deal in majority white societies where blacks are marginalized because of their Black or African heritage.
Some Black Americans or other Diaspora blacks go to Africa soon realize how Western they really are and some of the customs they might not be able to deal with.
It's related to something different Pan Africanism was a factor for decolonization in Africa. And for those societies to exist with different ethnic groups Pan Africanism is literally even more necessary.
Blacks in Diaspora as well as blacks in Africa both have pride and egos.
It's not like in Africa they are learning much about black American history or culture either. Just as many black American aren't aware of African culture many Africans are ignorant of African American struggles though the decades. It's a 2 sided thing.
So you have think of the prospective a Black American going to Africa is likely wealthier than many Africans, If a African American criticize an issue in Africa they may come off funny. Especially to those who know little about African Americans struggle.
But usually the more educated blacks on both sides are usually more embracing of each other.
Last edited by chiatldal; 12-13-2016 at 11:06 PM..
I think what the issue is Americans say " I am Italian, African, Polish American " To actual people from those parts of the world they are thinking "These people are American" there is NOTHING Italian, African or Polish about them...After the 3rd
generation, culturally they are Americans.
Now when some Black Americans want to celebrate their African heritage some get upset and think it is being nationalistic and they should just be "American"
There is an difference between nationality and ethnicity.
It's not nationality-nationality it's ethnicity-nationality when people use those terms.
"Now when some Black Americans want to celebrate their African heritage some get upset and think it is being nationalistic and they should just be "American""
No my point the people who get upset at "Black Americans want to celebrate their African heritage and think it is being nationalistic and they should just be "American"" are either very racist or very confused.
My point also was European culture is so tied to American culture that things with European roots are accepted as American. A white girl learning ballet is not viewed as European but as American, but a Black girl learning a African dance would be viewed as ethnic and not American.
As far as Ethnicity goes African American are more focus on learning about Yoruba and etc culture than Nigerian we are not Nigerian we are American. Black Americans are not trying to revision who we are but connect the dots to who we are.
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,522 posts, read 2,243,026 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal
This is an old post but I going replied because it was brought up, Africans sold Africans but they didn't sell their own group, Africans so captives of different Africans groups. So Oyo people might have solid Benin people, and Benin people might have solid Oyo people. But they didn't want their own people taken into slavery. The slave trade in Africa was largely a by product of war.
But no There is no sole definition to pan Africanism it can means anything regarding to two Black population communicating.
It mean Nigerian to Ghanaian
Afro West Indians to Afro Brazilians
Because of poverty and the history of oppression Black people have low awareness of other Blacks groups
Whites are not as conscious of European history but because school are required to teach European history anyways.
Whites are not as conscious of what other whites are doing because with white living in first world countries capitalism will favor spreading the news, and cultural movements. That why hot in UK music scene will be known in the US.
For Blacks to know African history or to be aware of other Black groups some one Black has to be conscious. I learn so much about African history and the cultures of different blacks groups that schools don't teach and the media would had other wise ignore.
There's a separation between a white racist from some one white who may like a British band, Paris fashion, studying European history, learning a European cuisine, or art and dance. or even want learn their own roots
But the monument some black American even utter Africa the right wing try to generalize them as racist or Afrocentric. That's like calling a little girl learning ballet racist or reading the little mermaid racist because it's danish.
I believe on the far right side of the political spectrum their are conservatives who have a white guilt complex. They feel or believe the world thinks white people are evil so they try to get even by creating false equalavents of the amount of Black racists.
Not that someone black can't be racist, but rather than the text book definition of racism of believing racial supremacy, they made of their own definition generalizing any one black who even utter Africa as racist. So it become no difference between some one Black who want to learn about their heritage or history from some black who hate or racist to to white people.
By that logic would make every white European history teacher racist, White chief that cook European dishes, writing books like game of thrones as racist. and etc. All which is silly and untrue statement. White do celebrate their heritage the whole concept of western culture is center around European heritage and their ties with each other.
Black people have ancestry in Africa, so some have interest and wanting to learn African history and culture it's not rocket science.
Point is a Black girl wanting to learn a African dance should be view no different than if white girl took ballet.
Great Post. The highlighted statement above could not be more true. The false equivalencies must end. No one ever states that "others" are racist for celebrating their heritages which includes all the atrocities associated with those cultures. I will take it a bit further by stating that the disconnect by a good bit of continental Africans and the feeling that WE as non continental blacks have no connection to Africa because we were born elsewhere due to the Diaspora is an issue....
I came across these videos which I found interesting the Dr. traced her roots to Cameroon through DNA and wants to reconnect the demeanor of the reporter in Cameroon during the interview I thinks speaks volumes, I think he views her as an American interloper. I don't think that most Africans view African-Americans as African. I actually felt bad for her during the interviews she seems like a nice lady and he behaved like an ass in my opinion.
I have noticed that some African-Americans want to reconnect with their African roots but I don't believe the feeling is mutual with Africans. What do you think? I really think most Africans would prefer African-Americans stay out of Africa.
Oh slavery was a very painful and inhumane era, where millions of Africans were mistreated and enslaved as animals. This had a profound psychological effect to this day on the descendants of Africans in the New World! The pain was passed on from generation to generation, stories of longing were also told from generation to generation. So this feeling might be or is much stronger on Black people of the New World than those in Africa. Due to colonialism or colonialist style of education, the topic of slavery has not been discussed in Africa a lot or was simply avoided or overlooked. This was made purposely by colonialist powers in order to avoid revolts or rebellions. Remember the best way to conquer a people or a nation is to divide them. Many Africans are not fully educated on the topic of slavery due to the reasons I have given above. Nevertheless, the minority of Africans who are well educated on such topic, understand very well the plight of their "New World relatives" who want to re-connect and show empathy for them. It's all linked to education and information.
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