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Old 07-30-2016, 08:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
Before I take this out of context, are you adding to my comment or disagreeing with it?


I am disagreeing with your assertion that racial tensions are increasing because of the ANC.


The ANC no longer has legitimacy that it once had to create any reaction from blacks. It can only exploit tensions, and cannot create them. The loud boos for Zuma at Mandela's funeral were broad cast all over the world. The fact that most of those who booed Zuma subsequently voted for him says much of the fact that other parties aren't seen as a viable alternative.


Try harder to ask why racial tensions are worsening and admit that the continued behavior of whites is part of the reason. Not just the ANC.
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Old 07-31-2016, 04:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
I am disagreeing with your assertion that racial tensions are increasing because of the ANC.


The ANC no longer has legitimacy that it once had to create any reaction from blacks. It can only exploit tensions, and cannot create them. The loud boos for Zuma at Mandela's funeral were broad cast all over the world. The fact that most of those who booed Zuma subsequently voted for him says much of the fact that other parties aren't seen as a viable alternative.

Try harder to ask why racial tensions are worsening and admit that the continued behavior of whites is part of the reason. Not just the ANC.
Ok just checking. That part in bold though - I never said they created racial tensions. I said it is up, so there was already tension like you suggest. Yes I agree that white people also play a part in this. The amount of stupid racist comments that have come up this year has been ridiculous. I'm not 100% convinced the punishment they've handed out has been fair though but that's a different debate.

If you follow the news and Twitter daily you notice that since the start of the year that things such as Apartheid are mentioned more. Things such as Liberation. Things such as the DA being a racist white party. These are things the ANC do contribute to as any racial divide come election time normally works in their favour. Whether that won't be the case now with the EFF will be something we find out on Wednesday I guess.

DA's Maimane's thoughts:
ANC dividing SA along racial lines - DA | IOL

EFF's Malema's thoughts:
https://www.enca.com/south-africa/an...ivering-malema
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Old 08-08-2016, 01:19 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
If you follow the news and Twitter daily you notice that since the start of the year that things such as Apartheid are mentioned more. Things such as Liberation. Things such as the DA being a racist white party. These are things the ANC do contribute to as any racial divide come election time normally works in their favour. Whether that won't be the case now with the EFF will be something we find out on Wednesday I guess.

DA's Maimane's thoughts:
ANC dividing SA along racial lines - DA | IOL

EFF's Malema's thoughts:
https://www.enca.com/south-africa/an...ivering-malema
Blacks have legitimate reasons not to trust whites, given the not too distant past. This isn't a chicken and egg situation. Its clear which group is the guilty party here.


A black woman told a New York Times reporter that while she didn't like the ANC the DA would have to prove that they should get her vote. She wasn't interested in switching from one group of useless politicians to support another set.


Maybe the DA ought to focus on that instead of its own race baiting which singles out the ANC only for dividing South Africa. I think that it is quite legitimate to wonder if the blacks in the DA have real clout, or are they mere window dressing by a DA which knows it can only win if it breaks up the ANC vote.


If poor South African blacks still think that continuing racism is one of the many ills which they suffer from (along with ANC corruption, cronyism and incompetence) then how does DA rhetoric, which singles out the ANC, help their credibility among blacks? Does the DA similarly speak to whites?

BTW the EFF claims that whites get preferential treatment from the ANC. In fact that might sound more credible to many blacks (true or not) than what the DA is claiming.
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Old 08-08-2016, 02:06 AM
 
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I'll take this section by section

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Blacks have legitimate reasons not to trust whites, given the not too distant past. This isn't a chicken and egg situation. Its clear which group is the guilty party here.
Too much generalisation here. Not every white person supported Apartheid and there were lots who helped end it. So no I refuse to just accept that all whites are the guilty party. All being the keyword there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
A black woman told a New York Times reporter that while she didn't like the ANC the DA would have to prove that they should get her vote. She wasn't interested in switching from one group of useless politicians to support another set.
Agreed with her here. I do think they've had a hard time gaining trust from a lot of the population. Hopefully based on the election results hopefully they'll get a chance now to prove what they can do in Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay. I really hope they actually make a difference over the next couple of years

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Maybe the DA ought to focus on that instead of its own race baiting which singles out the ANC only for dividing South Africa. I think that it is quite legitimate to wonder if the blacks in the DA have real clout, or are they mere window dressing by a DA which knows it can only win if it breaks up the ANC vote.
They are the official opposition. They're SUPPOSED to hold the ruling party accountable. They're SUPPPOSED to point out the ANC's failures. Could you imagine how even more unaccountable the ANC would be if every party only focussed on themselves?

I don't think it's legitimate. Based on how the DA was formed and their actual track record in the Western Cape, it's clear that calling them a white party is just propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
If poor South African blacks still think that continuing racism is one of the many ills which they suffer from (along with ANC corruption, cronyism and incompetence) then how does DA rhetoric, which singles out the ANC, help their credibility among blacks? Does the DA similarly speak to whites?
If you're not looking at the DA as a white party then this doesn't really apply? Why does holding the ANC accountable equate to speaking against black people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
BTW the EFF claims that whites get preferential treatment from the ANC. In fact that might sound more credible to many blacks (true or not) than what the DA is claiming.
The EFF claims a lot of things I still think they're too radical but I'll reserve my judgement till they've actually taken any action further than promising everyone the world.
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Old 08-08-2016, 01:29 PM
 
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I'd take Morocco or Egypt over SA any day... but aside from those two, I guess SA is the next best thing.

I've only been to Cape Town, it's very beautiful as long as you keep yourself to the white parts of town.
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Old 08-08-2016, 05:18 PM
 
Location: NYntarctica
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Not sure about that, South Africa's crime rate is out of control. I'd say my top in Africa would be Mauritius, Morocco, Tunisia, Ghana, and then South Africa


Mauritius is small but it has a population of 1.2 million so it's not THAT bad. It's not Vanuatu. Especially because of the density it probably feels like a lot more than that, it's not like the million people are spread out over a country the size of Greenland

Morocco and Tunisia might have obvious problems the past few years, but their amazing cuisine and the Mediterranean climate and the amazing history draw me in

Ghana just seems like a chill country. West African cuisine sounds inviting, and of course it has much less safety issues than SA. I also met some guys from Ghana in my uni, they're very cool. Only problem is that the neighboring countries of Ghana can be a bit...derpy. Togo and Benin are fine, but Ivory Coast has a troubled history and Nigeria is a powder keg that can blow at any moment, and with a population of 200 million you know that's gonna affect everything around it
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:33 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,939,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
I'll take this section by section



Too much generalisation here. Not every white person supported Apartheid and there were lots who helped end it. So no I refuse to just accept that all whites are the guilty party. All being the keyword there.



Agreed with her here. I do think they've had a hard time gaining trust from a lot of the population. Hopefully based on the election results hopefully they'll get a chance now to prove what they can do in Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay. I really hope they actually make a difference over the next couple of years



They are the official opposition. They're SUPPOSED to hold the ruling party accountable. They're SUPPPOSED to point out the ANC's failures. Could you imagine how even more unaccountable the ANC would be if every party only focussed on themselves?

I don't think it's legitimate. Based on how the DA was formed and their actual track record in the Western Cape, it's clear that calling them a white party is just propaganda.



If you're not looking at the DA as a white party then this doesn't really apply? Why does holding the ANC accountable equate to speaking against black people?



The EFF claims a lot of things I still think they're too radical but I'll reserve my judgement till they've actually taken any action further than promising everyone the world.


Fact is that South Africa still remains heavily impacted by apartheid so those who want to pretend as if lingering resentments aren't legitimate really don't understand human nature. So yes blacks will distrust white controlled institutions, especially poorer blacks.


I would think that the DA would have two missions. The first being to prove that its isn't corrupt and incompetent.


The most important mission being that it isn't a white controlled institution with some black tokens to disguise that fact. The onus is on the DA to prove this, not on blacks to automatically accept that it isn't white controlled.


Now I would think that if the DA spoke of race it wouldn't be just about the fact that the ANC is fanning the flames of resentment but to address the structural legacy of apartheid, which is indeed the cause of racial resentment. They would then speak not only to blacks, but also to whites.


Years after their disapproval of Zuma was announced to the world at Mandela's funeral the ANC still wins the black vote. Obviously not because blacks think that the ANC of Zuma is that of Mandela.


Its because the DA still needs to prove to them that it isn't a white organization with some black fronts to disguise this.


Don't use Western Cape as evidence as you know in South Africa its whites/coloreds/Indians against blacks when it comes to politics, and blacks are the minority in that province.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warszawa View Post
Nigeria is a powder keg that can blow at any moment, and with a population of 200 million you know that's gonna affect everything around it
Funny thing about Nigeria. It isn't like most other African nations. As unstable as it is it will remain intact. The most that might happen might be the southerners telling the alien northerners to go join up with Niger, with which they have more in common.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:07 PM
 
276 posts, read 294,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The most important mission being that it isn't a white controlled institution with some black tokens to disguise that fact. The onus is on the DA to prove this, not on blacks to automatically accept that it isn't white controlled.
Any suggestions how you'd do this other than for them to just continue what they're doing? I can't see anything they could actively do to prove this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Now I would think that if the DA spoke of race it wouldn't be just about the fact that the ANC is fanning the flames of resentment but to address the structural legacy of apartheid, which is indeed the cause of racial resentment. They would then speak not only to blacks, but also to whites.
Not to sure where you're going with this part but the DA spoke to the fact that the ANC were raising racial tensions. They weren't speaking to a race?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Years after their disapproval of Zuma was announced to the world at Mandela's funeral the ANC still wins the black vote. Obviously not because blacks think that the ANC of Zuma is that of Mandela.

Its because the DA still needs to prove to them that it isn't a white organization with some black fronts to disguise this.
Don't completely agree here. There are still a lot of people from the older generation voting out of loyalty BUT I do agree that with the DA's reputation there are also a lot of people who probably don't feel like there is a viable alternative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Don't use Western Cape as evidence as you know in South Africa its whites/coloreds/Indians against blacks when it comes to politics, and blacks are the minority in that province.
Indians are the minority in the Western Cape.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:05 PM
 
Location: NYntarctica
11,438 posts, read 6,417,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Funny thing about Nigeria. It isn't like most other African nations. As unstable as it is it will remain intact. The most that might happen might be the southerners telling the alien northerners to go join up with Niger, with which they have more in common.
A lot of the African borders are arbitrary anyway, would make sense if some of the people in the north feel more like a part of Chad or Niger than actual Nigeria
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