U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-01-2016, 07:36 AM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,230,790 times
Reputation: 5878

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemetic Science View Post
No.
Okay then what is kemetic science specifically?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-01-2016, 01:26 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,509,042 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemetic Science View Post

You gave not one official source!

Where the Ancient Egyptians Africans? What colour was their skin?

Yes. Egypt is in Africa and there are many cultural links to other African civilisations. If we look at the skin colour and also facial features on representations of Egyptians, many are what we would consider today to be Black African. Skin colours on temple and wall reliefs show ranges between dark brown and black, which is typical of what we see today with regard to people of Black African descent or origin. Furthermore, Nubians, a group who are accepted universally as Black Africans are, like their neighbors from Kemet, shown on reliefs with both jet black and red-brown skin and can be distinguished as Nubian by their short wigs.

Were the people in Ancient Kemet the same people who live in Egypt today?

No. Throughout Egypt's history it had traded and fought with people from other countries. From around 750BC the Nubian rulers, often called 'The Ku****es' controlled Kemet and became its twenty-fifth Dynasty. During this time, Kemet enjoyed a renaissance, or return to earlier culture, as indicated by the promotion of the cult of the god Amun and also copies of earlier statutes that were made by officials and the rulers.
The Fitzwilliam Museum : Kemet


Archaeological evidence simply does not support the common misconception that Middle Easterners and certainly not Europeans were present or seen in notable numbers during the Pre-Early Dynastic periods...

"The question of the genetic origins of ancient Egyptians, particularly those during the Dynastic period, is relevant to the current study. Modern interpretations of Egyptian state formation propose an indigenous origin of the Dynastic civilization (Hassan, 198. Early Egyptologists considered Upper and Lower Egyptians to be genetically distinct populations, and viewed the Dynastic period as characterized by a conquest of Upper Egypt by the Lower Egyptians. More recent interpretations contend that Egyptians from the south actually expanded into the northern regions during the Dynastic state unification (Hassan, 1988; Savage, 2001), and that the Predynastic populations of Upper and Lower Egypt are morphologically distinct from one another, but not sufficiently distinct to consider either non-indigenous (Zakrzewski, 2007). The Predynastic populations studied here, from Naqada and Badari, are both Upper Egyptian samples, while the Dynastic Egyptian sample (Tarkhan) is from Lower Egypt. The Dynastic Nubian sample is from Upper Nubia (Kerma). Previous analyses of cranial variation found the Badari and Early Predynastic Egyptians to be more similar to other African groups than to Mediterranean or European populations (Keita, 1990; Zakrzewski, 2002). In addition, the Badarians have been described as near the centroid of cranial and dental variation among Predynastic and Dynastic populations studied (Irish, 2006; Zakrzewski, 2007). This suggests that, at least through the Early Dynastic period, the inhabitants of the Nile valley were a continuous population of local origin, and no major migration or replacement events occurred during this time.

Studies of cranial morphology also support the use of a Nubian (Kerma) population for a comparison of the Dynastic period, as this group is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations (Zakrzewski, 2002). - AP Starling, JT Stock. (2007). Dental Indicators of Health and Stress in Early Egyptian and Nubian Agriculturalists: A Difficult Transition and Gradual Recovery. AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY

"Analysis of crania is the traditional approach to assessing ancient population origins, relationships, and diversity. In studies based on anatomical traits and measurements of crania, similarities have been found between Nile Valley crania from 30,000, 20,000 and 12,000 years ago and various African remains from more recent times (see Thoma 1984; Brauer and Rimbach 1990; Angel and Kelley 1986; Keita 1993). Studies of crania from southern predynastic Egypt, from the formative period (4000-3100 B.C.), show them usually to be more similar to the crania of ancient Nubians, Ku****es, Saharans, or modern groups from the Horn of Africa than to those of dynastic northern Egyptians or ancient or modern southern Europeans."(S. O. Y and A.J. Boyce, "The Geographical Origins and Population Relationships of Early Ancient Egyptians", in Egypt in Africa, Theodore Celenko (ed), Indiana University Press, 1996, pp. 20-33)

"The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) diversity of 58 individuals from Upper Egypt, more than half (34 individuals) from Gurna, whose population has an ancient cultural history, were studied by sequencing the control-region and screening diagnostic RFLP markers. This sedentary population presented similarities to the Ethiopian population by the L1 and L2 macrohaplogroup frequency (20.6%), by the West Eurasian component (defined by haplogroups H to K and T to X) and particularly by a high frequency (17.6%) of haplogroup M1. We statistically and phylogenetically analysed and compared the Gurna population with other Egyptian, Near East and sub-Saharan Africa populations; AMOVA and Minimum Spanning Network analysis showed that the Gurna population was not isolated from neighbouring populations. Our results suggest that the Gurna population has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral East African population, characterized by a high M1 haplogroup frequency. The current structure of the Egyptian population may be the result of further influence of neighbouring populations on this ancestral population."(Stevanovitch A, Gilles A, Bouzaid E, et al. (2004) Mitochondrial DNA sequence diversity in a sedentary population from Egypt.Ann Hum Genet. 68(Pt 1):23-39.)

"The raw values in Table 6 suggest that Egyptians had the super-Negroid body plan described by Robins (1983).. This pattern is supported by Figure 7 (a plot of population mean femoral and tibial lengths; data from Ruff, 1994), which indicates that the Egyptians generally have tropical body plans. Of the Egyptian samples, only the Badarian and Early Dynastic period populations have shorter tibiae than predicted from femoral length. Despite these differences, all samples lie relatively clustered together as compared to the other populations." (Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003). "Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions". American Journal of Physical Anthropology 121 (3): 219-229.

"In this regard it is interesting to note that limb proportions of Predynastic Naqada people in Upper Egypt are reported to be "Super-Negroid," meaning that the distal segments are elongated in the fashion of tropical Africans.....skin color intensification and distal limb elongation are apparent wherever people have been long-term residents of the tropics." (-- C.L. Brace, 1993. Clines and clusters..")


"During an excavation headed by the German Institute for Archaeology, Cairo, at the tombs of the nobles in Thebes-West, Upper Egypt, three types of tissues from different mummies were sampled to compare 13 well known rehydration methods for mummified tissue with three newly developed methods. .. Skin sections showed particularly good tissue preservation, although cellular outlines were never distinct. Although much of the epidermis had already separated from the dermis, the remaining epidermis often was preserved well (Fig. 1). The basal epithelial cells were packed with melanin as expected for specimens of Negroid origin." --(A-M Mekota and M Vermehren. (2005) Determination of optimal rehydration, fixation and staining methods for histological and immunohistochemical analysis of mummified soft tissues. Biotechnic & Histochemistry 2005, Vol. 80, No. 1, Pages 7-13


"The Mahalanobis D2 analysis uncovered close affinities between Nubians and Egyptians. Table 3 lists the Mahalanobis D2 distance matrix... In some cases, the statistics reveal that the Egyptian samples were more similar to Nubian samples than to other Egyptian samples (e.g. Gizeh and Hesa/Biga) and vice versa (e.g. Badari and Kerma, Naqada and Christian).

The clustering of the Nubian and Egyptian samples together supports this paper's hypothesis and demonstrates that there may be a close relationship between the two populations. This relationship is consistent with Berry and Berry (1972), among others, who noted a similarity between Nubians and Egyptians.


Ancient Nubia predates ancient Kemet and the Nubian are the ones who birth the Kemetic people and Kemetic civilization!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdqms_bY6X4
One of the best videos on the Nile Valley civilizations and even these scholars made up of Black and Whites will tell you that Kemet came from the Nubians!
We have already demonstrated that the mixing in Egyptians populations started in pre-historic times, which makes sense since people did not wait until 5000 years ago to begin migrating. Egypt has always been a nexus of three continents, which is why it has always been a mixed race land. They are a little blacker today due to the Arab slave trade.

The "negroid body plan" argument is nonsense. They still have longer than European limbs today. There hasn't been any change. Negroes do not own long limbs, but it is an in situ evolution due ot the heat. What is more, North Africans who are not "black," but phenotypically resemble Middle Easterners (like Egyptians today and yesterday) have limbs that are longer than those of Europeans.

[SIZE=3]STRINGER AND GAMBLE CHART[/SIZE]
Group
crural index
Mean annual temp C
Lapps
79%
.25
modern Inuit
81.5%
4
Belgium
82.5%
10
S.African white
83.2%
8.5
Yugoslav
83.75%
8.4
American white
82.6%
9.8
Kalahari Bushman
83.4%
18
New Mexico Indian
84.6%
14
S.African black
86.4%
17
Arizona Indian
85.5%
18
Melanesian
84.8%
23
Pygmy
85.1%
24.2
Egyptian
84.9%
26.1
American Black
85.25%
26


The entire farce about Egytpians once being a differnt people is entirely a self-esteem boost for African Americans. There is not truth to it.

As some posters have already told you, there are very prominent munnnies with red and even blonde hair, and Old kingdom depictions of Egytpians with blue eyes.

Irish, Zakrzewski and Stenovich all show the opposite of what you think they do. You simply don't understand what you are reading.

JD IRISH 2006
Qualitative and quantitative methods are employed to describe and compare up to 36 dental morphological variants in 15 Neolithic through Roman-period Egyptian samples. Trait frequencies are determined, and phenetic affinities are calculated using the mean measure of divergence and Mahalanobis D2 statistics for discrete traits; the most important traits in generating this intersample variation are identified with correspondence analysis. Assuming that the samples are representative of the populations from which they derive, and that phenetic similarity provides an estimate of genetic relatedness, these affinities are suggestive of overall population continuity. That is, other than a few outliers exhibiting extreme frequencies of nine influential traits, the dental samples appear to be largely homogenous and can be characterized as having morphologically simple, mass-reduced teeth. These findings are contrasted with those resulting from previous skeletal and other studies, and are used to appraise the viability of five Egyptian peopling scenarios. Specifically, affinities among the 15 time-successive samples suggest that: 1) there may be a connection between Neolithic and subsequent predynastic Egyptians, 2) predynastic Badarian and Naqada peoples may be closely related, 3) the dynastic period is likely an indigenous continuation of the Naqada culture, 4) there is support for overall biological uniformity through the dynastic period, and 5) this uniformity may continue into postdynastic times.


(IRISH 2000
Hierakonpolis inhabitants appear to be uniform in cranial size and form and 2) they show some resemblance to other post-Pleistocene populations of North Africa, as well as Europe and West Asia. They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene sub-Saharan Africans.
Dental phenetic homogeneity was present amongst the Hierakonpolis inhabitants, and they exhibit dental traits that ally them with other post- Pleistocene populations in grater North Africa. Prior work shows that North Africans have morphologically simple, mass reduced teeth. This dental pattern was shown to be ubiquitous amongst samples, regardless of distance- from the Canary Islands to Egypt and Nubia- or time, from 8000 year old Capsians to recent Berbers in Western North Africa. This pattern, termed the "North African Dental Trait Complex," includes high frequencies of several traits such as an interruption groove on U12, M3 agenesis, and rocker jaw, plus a low occurrence of LM2 Y-5 groove pattern. All of these features are also present in Europeans and West Asians to some degree, but are uncommon in Sub-Saharan peoples. Crainiometric indicators also appear to support these results, and European-like discreet traits such as alveolar, orthognathism, dolichocephaly, rhomboid orbits, narrow nasal aperture, and nasal sill are prevalent...They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene Sub-Saharan Africans. (Irish 2000)

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt
A. Stevanovitch
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3.00057.x/full
Mitochondrial genetic data from North Africa are documented by two groups of populations: one composed of populations of the Nile Valley, and the other by populations of the Maghreb. The Nile Valley has been shown to be a migration corridor with populations connected by gene flow (Krings et al. 1999), and phylogeographical analysis of mitochondrial lineages of populations from the Maghreb suggests that modern humans appeared from the Near East following at least two migrations around 50 000 years and 10 000 years ago. A possible migration from Europe may also have occurred during the Neolithic period (Macaulay et al. 1999).

Zakrzewski acutally helps demonstrate that blacks came LATER.

[SIZE=3]The change found in body plan is suggested to be the result of the later groups having a more tropical (Nilotic) form than the preceding populations.”
Zakrzewski, S.R. (2003).
[/SIZE]


Last edited by cachibatches; 08-01-2016 at 01:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2016, 05:17 PM
 
22 posts, read 9,792 times
Reputation: 35
@cachibatches


See this the thing about when you debate with somebody which is why I can tell you're only a google internet scholar who uses everything that fits your agenda as "evidence" instead of using real scholarship. You refuted none of my sources if we go back and forth then a point will never be proved I destroyed your whole DNA argument with official sources that you can easily research for yourself. You're giving me a bootleg website that I can careless about!

Evidently you don't know much about Kemetic history because anybody who studies Nile Valley civilization will tell you that the Nubians birthed the ancient Kemetic peoples. Not only Nubia predates Kemet but the Nubian god's are also Kemet's famous gods.

1. Kemet's most known and famous deity "Amen Ra" is a Nubian sun-god.

2. Heru (Horus) is a Nubian deity.

3. Asar (Osiris) is a Nubian deity.

4. Aset (Isis) is Nubian deity.

5. Maat was also a Nubian deity.

6. Nubian predates ancient Kemet.

7. There's more pyramids in Nubia than there is in Kemet! The Kemetic people got their pyramid concepts from the Nubians.

8. The origin of Kemetic cosmology comes from Nubia.


In the 25th Dynasty when the Nubians ruled Kemet, ancient Kemet went through a "renaissance" and the definition of a renaissance is cultural rebirth. This reintroduced the Kemites to the culture that they originally had. This is said by the Fitzwilliams Museum located on the campus of Camden in the U.K:
"From around 750 BC the Nubian rulers, often called ‘The Ku****es’ controlled Kemet and became its Twenty-fifth Dynasty. During this time Kemet enjoyed a renaissance, or return to earlier culture, as indicated by the promotion of the cult of the god Amun and also copies of earlier statutes that were made by officials and the rulers."The Fitzwilliam Museum : Kemet

I'm going to post this video again because evidently you didn't watch the documentary. These are real Kemetic scholars giving you the history and origin of the Kemetic people, and their origin is from south of the Nile Valley in Nubia (Ta-Seti/Land of the bow). Got to 8:50 in the video. Then go to 9:20 in the video and you would see Sally Ann-Ashton who is in the Antiquities Department of the Fitzwilliam Museum says: "I think we need to get rid of the images we see of Nubia in particular as being a different country" and then at 9:50 she says: "At times they were the same thing... They were ONE!!!" And I already posted the genetic evidence that support what the scholars say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdqms_bY6X4


You just proved you know nothing about Kemetic history because if you did you would know that Kemet was conquered on numerous occasions! Kemet suffered from 2 Persian invasions 525 BC and 342 BC. Kemet suffered from the Greeks ruing from 332 BC - 30 BC. Then the Romans took control of Kemet after 30 BC, and then the Islamic Arabs settled in Kemet in 642 AD! Of course there's going to be other mummies in ancient Kemet other than Black Africans because numerous of different people settled, ruled and infiltrated the land. Do you know how dumb you sound? That's like me saying the Native Americans were White 5,000 years from now just because I dug up a couple of old White people from an American cemetery when in actuality the Native Americans were far from White Europeans.

The exert below is confirmation of this northward migration from Nubia into ancient Egypt.

The Distribution of E-M2 and it clades in Central and Southern Africa has usually been explained by the ‘‘Bantu migrations" (which occurred 3000-2500 B.C), in which agriculture and iron technologies spread from the Bantu's homeland located in the Benue complex i.e. Nigeria/Cameroon’’But their presence in the Nile Valley and in other Non-Bantu speakers Can Not be explained in this way.E-M2 distribution is probably explained by their presence in the populations of the “Early Holocene Sahara”, Who went on to people the Nile Valley in The mid-Holocene era (12,000 B.P.) according to Hassan (1988). Keita and Boyce; Boyce, A. J. (Anthony J.) (2005). "Genetics, Egypt, and History: Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation".

Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions. These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world(such as D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).

Ramses III and his son

We amplified 16 Y chromosomal, short tandem repeats (AmpFSTR Yfiler PCR amplification kit; Applied Biosystems).........Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (table 1?); using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a

These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer) shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa..A previous issue of DNA Tribes Digest identified African related ancestry for King Tut and other royal mummies from the Amarna Period. In this issue, results indicate that the later pharaoh Ramesses III also inherited alleles that are most frequent in present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. This provides additional, independent evidence of Sub-Saharan African ancestry (possibly among several ancestral components) for pharaonic families of ancient Egypt....In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years.

and of course anthropological (measurements of the crania and overall skeletons) archaeological evidence confirms this as well:
On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations(Morant, 1935 G. Morant, A study of predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari based on measurements taken by Miss BN Stoessiger and Professor DE Derry, Biometrika 27 (1935), pp. 293–309.Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. (Hassan, 1986) and (Hassan, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990).

The ancient Egyptians called their Pharaohs "N-G-R" (Net-ger) because the Egyptian Pharaoh was seen as a representation of the sun and the Sun God. The original Pharaohs who were pure Black Africans SAW BLACK SKIN AS SACRED AND A DIRECT BLESSING FROM THE SUN GOD, ATEN. In fact Blackness and black skin became associated with God and the sun. BLACK PEOPLE WERE POWERFUL, CULTURALLY ADVANCED, MILITARILY SUPERIOR, BLACK/DARKBROWN IN COMPLEXION, STRONG STATURE, TALL AND DESCRIBED AS A "HANDSOME" RACE , (SEE HERODOTUS, "THE HISTORIES, DESCRIPTIONS OF "ETHIOPIANS" OF AFRICA AND SOUTH INDIA).

Darkwah states that ancient Egypt was geographically in Africa and that so called European experts do not know the Ancient Egyptian story because they are not familiar with African tribal names. They do not have the linguistic and cultural backgrounds to identify Egyptian names and have simply transposed the African names of people and places in Ancient Egyptian history into European languages to make it possible for them to claim expertise. Darkwah traces the ancient past of African tribes from the Middle East through Ancient Egypt to inner Africa. He reveals the African tribe that historians gave the fictitious names the Sumerians, Akkadians, and the African Tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2016, 05:23 PM
 
22 posts, read 9,792 times
Reputation: 35
You better come harder than that because next time you come with some bogus DNA crap I'm throwing it right back in your face.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2016, 08:52 PM
 
6,552 posts, read 9,067,154 times
Reputation: 2837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemetic Science View Post


Not only Nubia predates Kemet but the Nubian god's are also Kemet's famous gods.

1. Kemet's most known and famous deity "Amen Ra" is a Nubian sun-god.

2. Heru (Horus) is a Nubian deity.

3. Asar (Osiris) is a Nubian deity.

4. Aset (Isis) is Nubian deity.

5. Maat was also a Nubian deity.
1. Where in Nubia can the images of these deities be found and have been shown to be dated before the development of Egypt?

2. What about the linguistic differences between the Egyptian and Nubian languages? The Egyptians spoke an Afro-Asiatic language while the Nubians spoke an Nilo-Saharan language. If their languages belonged to different linguistic families then how related can they be to each other?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-01-2016, 09:19 PM
 
22 posts, read 9,792 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
1. Where in Nubia can the images of these deities be found and have been shown to be dated before the development of Egypt?

2. What about the linguistic differences between the Egyptian and Nubian languages? The Egyptians spoke an Afro-Asiatic language while the Nubians spoke an Nilo-Saharan language. If their languages belong to different linguistic families then how related can they be to each other?
Isis was known to the Ku****es as the "great lady of Nubia". Isis was very popular amongst Nubian women since the child mortality rate was higher during ancient times, and attracted mothers concerning the health conditions of their children. Nubian Pharaohs often considered Isis as their "heavenly mother" for moral, judgement and integrity purposes.

A translation of Meroitic inscription about Isis, reads as follows:
"Give noble renewal (Oh Isis) to the new vivification. Give renewal--give (its) erection. Reflect (on) the patron (and) guide good prosperity (on the) good path indeed."

"There is no reason to assume that Isis was originally an Egyptian goddess. Even the cult center of Isis was located at Philae in Lower Nubia. Although part of Nubia, Philae has been a subordinate of Egypt for most of history. However, the local population of Philae has been predominantly of Sudanese extraction, until today. The cult of Isis at Philae received Pilgrims from different parts of the ancient world including Rome, Greece, Syria, and Israel."

REFERENCES
P. Garnsey, and C. R. Whittaker, Imperialism in the Ancient World: The Cambridge University Research Seminar in Ancient History (Cambridge UP, 1978) 37.

2 Translation by C. A. Winters of Napata Statue No. 75: 1-2, in C. A. Winters, "Meroitic Religion," Arkamani Sudan Electronic Journal of Archaeology and Anthropology, Oct. 2005, Dec. 2008



A translation of an offering table inscription from Semna, in Sudan, reads as follows:
"Life (to) the Horus divine of forms, he of the Two Ladies Divine of births, the Golden Horus who has come into being, Dual King Khakaura.."

Translation from GEM, in A. Bart, "Senusret (III) Khakaure", Ancient Egypt, Dec. 2008


In order for you to understand a lot of the ancient Kemetic history you have to understand Nubia which is why in the 25th Dynasty when the Nubians ruled ancient Kemet the Kemetic civilization went through a renaissance. You should watch the video I posted if you haven't already did, it's very helpful and educational.

Also the video that I posted called "Nubian Spirit" talks about Amen Ra being a Nubian deity. I would post pictures but I don't know how.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-02-2016, 03:47 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,509,042 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kemetic Science View Post
@cachibatches


See this the thing about when you debate with somebody which is why I can tell you're only a google internet scholar who uses everything that fits your agenda as "evidence" instead of using real scholarship. You refuted none of my sources if we go back and forth then a point will never be proved I destroyed your whole DNA argument with official sources that you can easily research for yourself. You're giving me a bootleg website that I can careless about!

Evidently you don't know much about Kemetic history because anybody who studies Nile Valley civilization will tell you that the Nubians birthed the ancient Kemetic peoples. Not only Nubia predates Kemet but the Nubian god's are also Kemet's famous gods.

1. Kemet's most known and famous deity "Amen Ra" is a Nubian sun-god.

2. Heru (Horus) is a Nubian deity.

3. Asar (Osiris) is a Nubian deity.

4. Aset (Isis) is Nubian deity.

5. Maat was also a Nubian deity.

6. Nubian predates ancient Kemet.

7. There's more pyramids in Nubia than there is in Kemet! The Kemetic people got their pyramid concepts from the Nubians.

8. The origin of Kemetic cosmology comes from Nubia.

In the 25th Dynasty when the Nubians ruled Kemet, ancient Kemet went through a "renaissance" and the definition of a renaissance is cultural rebirth. This reintroduced the Kemites to the culture that they originally had. This is said by the Fitzwilliams Museum located on the campus of Camden in the U.K:
"From around 750 BC the Nubian rulers, often called ‘The Ku****es’ controlled Kemet and became its Twenty-fifth Dynasty. During this time Kemet enjoyed a renaissance, or return to earlier culture, as indicated by the promotion of the cult of the god Amun and also copies of earlier statutes that were made by officials and the rulers."The Fitzwilliam Museum : Kemet

I'm going to post this video again because evidently you didn't watch the documentary. These are real Kemetic scholars giving you the history and origin of the Kemetic people, and their origin is from south of the Nile Valley in Nubia (Ta-Seti/Land of the bow). Got to 8:50 in the video. Then go to 9:20 in the video and you would see Sally Ann-Ashton who is in the Antiquities Department of the Fitzwilliam Museum says: "I think we need to get rid of the images we see of Nubia in particular as being a different country" and then at 9:50 she says: "At times they were the same thing... They were ONE!!!" And I already posted the genetic evidence that support what the scholars say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdqms_bY6X4


You just proved you know nothing about Kemetic history because if you did you would know that Kemet was conquered on numerous occasions! Kemet suffered from 2 Persian invasions 525 BC and 342 BC. Kemet suffered from the Greeks ruing from 332 BC - 30 BC. Then the Romans took control of Kemet after 30 BC, and then the Islamic Arabs settled in Kemet in 642 AD! Of course there's going to be other mummies in ancient Kemet other than Black Africans because numerous of different people settled, ruled and infiltrated the land. Do you know how dumb you sound? That's like me saying the Native Americans were White 5,000 years from now just because I dug up a couple of old White people from an American cemetery when in actuality the Native Americans were far from White Europeans.

The exert below is confirmation of this northward migration from Nubia into ancient Egypt.

The Distribution of E-M2 and it clades in Central and Southern Africa has usually been explained by the ‘‘Bantu migrations" (which occurred 3000-2500 B.C), in which agriculture and iron technologies spread from the Bantu's homeland located in the Benue complex i.e. Nigeria/Cameroon’’But their presence in the Nile Valley and in other Non-Bantu speakers Can Not be explained in this way.E-M2 distribution is probably explained by their presence in the populations of the “Early Holocene Sahara”, Who went on to people the Nile Valley in The mid-Holocene era (12,000 B.P.) according to Hassan (1988). Keita and Boyce; Boyce, A. J. (Anthony J.) (2005). "Genetics, Egypt, and History: Interpreting Geographical Patterns of Y Chromosome Variation".

Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions. These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world(such as D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).

Ramses III and his son

We amplified 16 Y chromosomal, short tandem repeats (AmpFSTR Yfiler PCR amplification kit; Applied Biosystems).........Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (table 1?); using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a

These results indicate that both Ramesses III and Unknown Man E (possibly his son Pentawer) shared an ancestral component with present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa..A previous issue of DNA Tribes Digest identified African related ancestry for King Tut and other royal mummies from the Amarna Period. In this issue, results indicate that the later pharaoh Ramesses III also inherited alleles that are most frequent in present day populations of Sub-Saharan Africa. This provides additional, independent evidence of Sub-Saharan African ancestry (possibly among several ancestral components) for pharaonic families of ancient Egypt....In addition, these DNA match results in present day world regions might in part express population changes in Africa after the time of Ramesses III. In particular, DNA matches in present day populations of Southern Africa and the African Great Lakes might to some degree reflect genetic links with ancient populations (formerly living closer to New Kingdom Egypt) that have expanded southwards in the Nilotic and Bantu migrations of the past 3,000 years.

and of course anthropological (measurements of the crania and overall skeletons) archaeological evidence confirms this as well:
On this basis, many have postulated that the Badarians are relatives to South African populations(Morant, 1935 G. Morant, A study of predynastic Egyptian skulls from Badari based on measurements taken by Miss BN Stoessiger and Professor DE Derry, Biometrika 27 (1935), pp. 293–309.Morant, 1935; Mukherjee et al., 1955; Irish and Konigsberg, 2007). The archaeological evidence points to this relationship as well. (Hassan, 1986) and (Hassan, 1988) noted similarities between Badarian pottery and the Neolithic Khartoum type, indicating an archaeological affinity among Badarians and Africans from more southern regions. Furthermore, like the Badarians, Naqada has also been classified with other African groups, namely the Teita (Crichton, 1996; Keita, 1990).

The ancient Egyptians called their Pharaohs "N-G-R" (Net-ger) because the Egyptian Pharaoh was seen as a representation of the sun and the Sun God. The original Pharaohs who were pure Black Africans SAW BLACK SKIN AS SACRED AND A DIRECT BLESSING FROM THE SUN GOD, ATEN. In fact Blackness and black skin became associated with God and the sun. BLACK PEOPLE WERE POWERFUL, CULTURALLY ADVANCED, MILITARILY SUPERIOR, BLACK/DARKBROWN IN COMPLEXION, STRONG STATURE, TALL AND DESCRIBED AS A "HANDSOME" RACE , (SEE HERODOTUS, "THE HISTORIES, DESCRIPTIONS OF "ETHIOPIANS" OF AFRICA AND SOUTH INDIA).

Darkwah states that ancient Egypt was geographically in Africa and that so called European experts do not know the Ancient Egyptian story because they are not familiar with African tribal names. They do not have the linguistic and cultural backgrounds to identify Egyptian names and have simply transposed the African names of people and places in Ancient Egyptian history into European languages to make it possible for them to claim expertise. Darkwah traces the ancient past of African tribes from the Middle East through Ancient Egypt to inner Africa. He reveals the African tribe that historians gave the fictitious names the Sumerians, Akkadians, and the African Tribes that were the Ancient Egyptians.

Yes, I clearly demonstrated that you do not understand the sources that you are posting. You can't "throw anything back at me" or whatever you said--you don't know what you are talking about. I have clearly shown you taht Keita and Irish say the opposite of what you think. Here, lets do it again:




The Iberomaurusian enigma: north African progenitor or dead end?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11006048
(IRISH 2000)

Hierakonpolis inhabitants appear to be uniform in cranial size and form and 2) they show some resemblance to other post-Pleistocene populations of North Africa, as well as Europe and West Asia. They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene sub-Saharan Africans.
Dental phenetic homogeneity was present amongst the Hierakonpolis inhabitants, and they exhibit dental traits that ally them with other post- Pleistocene populations in grater North Africa. Prior work shows that North Africans have morphologically simple, mass reduced teeth. This dental pattern was shown to be ubiquitous amongst samples, regardless of distance- from the Canary Islands to Egypt and Nubia- or time, from 8000 year old Capsians to recent Berbers in Western North Africa. This pattern, termed the "North African Dental Trait Complex," includes high frequencies of several traits such as an interruption groove on U12, M3 agenesis, and rocker jaw, plus a low occurrence of LM2 Y-5 groove pattern. All of these features are also present in Europeans and West Asians to some degree, but are uncommon in Sub-Saharan peoples. Crainiometric indicators also appear to support these results, and European-like discreet traits such as alveolar, orthognathism, dolichocephaly, rhomboid orbits, narrow nasal aperture, and nasal sill are prevalent...They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene Sub-Saharan Africans. (Irish 2000)

By the way, the "study" in which Ramesses was allegedly shown to be e1b1a piggyback's the Journal Of American Medicine study of Albert Zigk, who has admitted to falsifying results:

"Zink has stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were run and the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged "most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of the Pharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)

Herodotus specifically differentiated between Egytains and blacks- a common mistake made by those who have never read him. I actually have, you have not:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2016, 07:07 AM
 
Location: London, NYC & LA
842 posts, read 654,066 times
Reputation: 684
Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Yes, I clearly demonstrated that you do not understand the sources that you are posting. You can't "throw anything back at me" or whatever you said--you don't know what you are talking about. I have clearly shown you taht Keita and Irish say the opposite of what you think. Here, lets do it again:




The Iberomaurusian enigma: north African progenitor or dead end?
The Iberomaurusian enigma: north African progenitor or dead end? - PubMed - NCBI
(IRISH 2000)

Hierakonpolis inhabitants appear to be uniform in cranial size and form and 2) they show some resemblance to other post-Pleistocene populations of North Africa, as well as Europe and West Asia. They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene sub-Saharan Africans.
Dental phenetic homogeneity was present amongst the Hierakonpolis inhabitants, and they exhibit dental traits that ally them with other post- Pleistocene populations in grater North Africa. Prior work shows that North Africans have morphologically simple, mass reduced teeth. This dental pattern was shown to be ubiquitous amongst samples, regardless of distance- from the Canary Islands to Egypt and Nubia- or time, from 8000 year old Capsians to recent Berbers in Western North Africa. This pattern, termed the "North African Dental Trait Complex," includes high frequencies of several traits such as an interruption groove on U12, M3 agenesis, and rocker jaw, plus a low occurrence of LM2 Y-5 groove pattern. All of these features are also present in Europeans and West Asians to some degree, but are uncommon in Sub-Saharan peoples. Crainiometric indicators also appear to support these results, and European-like discreet traits such as alveolar, orthognathism, dolichocephaly, rhomboid orbits, narrow nasal aperture, and nasal sill are prevalent...They appear distinct from post-Pleistocene Sub-Saharan Africans. (Irish 2000)

By the way, the "study" in which Ramesses was allegedly shown to be e1b1a piggyback's the Journal Of American Medicine study of Albert Zigk, who has admitted to falsifying results:

"Zink has stated that the tests did not get the same results each time they were run and the results reported in the JAMA paper are those the team adjudged "most likely" based on "majority rule" (Curse of the Pharaoh's DNA AWT Conference Review, Marchant; 2011)

Herodotus specifically differentiated between Egytains and blacks- a common mistake made by those who have never read him. I actually have, you have not:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race
Let me step in and end this. The Egyptians themselves said their origins lay in the south in the land of Punt.

They themselves remarked upon this during Hatshepsut's expedition to the region. It it now widely agreed Punt was located in what is now termed sub saharan Africa or the horn of Africa

Finally all Greek descriptions of Egyptians are of a dark skinned and woolly haired people. That does not sound like the description of Arabs or Europeans to me.

Finally Egypt has been subject to many invasions so the present population does not reflect the original population of antiquity. Much in the same way if you visit modern London where minorities make up a full third of the population, the population does not reflect the look of the majority of people found a mere 60 years ago. (Please note that unlike some folk here I have no issue with this).

Bar the Greeks, no other population has been more subject to nonsense written about their history than the Egyptians. In truth, I think a lot of it stems from the fact that when you dig deep enough all evidence points to an original black African population (be it afro-asiatic, Bantu or more likely a mix of the two)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-28-2016, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,904 posts, read 6,115,047 times
Reputation: 6110
I had forgotten why I don't come here to this forum anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-29-2016, 01:15 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,509,042 times
Reputation: 6752
Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
Let me step in and end this. The Egyptians themselves said their origins lay in the south in the land of Punt.
Which is completely irrelelvant. We know that Egytpain origins are from all sides. We know it factually from gene mapping, anthopology, etc. "Egypt" was not a single place with a single orgin, by the way, but two lands that were united.

What you are talking about is a creation myth, where a dynasty tried to link themselves to the past, such as Romans claiming to be Trojans, Aztecs claiming to be Toltecs, Jews claiming to be Egyptian slaves, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
They themselves remarked upon this during Hatshepsut's expedition to the region. It it now widely agreed Punt was located in what is now termed sub saharan Africa or the horn of Africa
It was not even agreed that Punt was one place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
Finally all Greek descriptions of Egyptians are of a dark skinned and woolly haired people. That does not sound like the description of Arabs or Europeans to me.
Nope. As already cited, Herodotus described Egytpians as differant from Nubians. He describe the Egyptian race as "melanchroes." Melanchroes is a word that Greeks used to describe swarthy people of thier own race. "Ethiope" is what black Africans are called, and no one ever used the word Ethiope to describe Egytpians, and in fact used the word to SEPARATE blacks from Egytpians.

Here is a part of the Odyssey in which Odysseus is described as melenchroes:
With this, Athena touched him [Odysseus] with her golden wand. A well-washed cloak and a tunic she first of all cast about his breast, and she increased his stature and his youthful bloom. Once more he grew dark of color [melanchroiês], and his cheeks filled out, and dark grew the beard about his chin.


Herodotus actually said that Egytpians and Ethiopians were different:
After this man the priest enumerate to me from a papyrus the names of other Kings, three hundred and thirty in number; and in all these generations of men eighteen were Ethiopians, one was a woman and the rest were men and of Egyptian race.

I have actually read Herodotus and Homer, as well as Ammianus Marcellinus, who says that that they are "mostly" brown or black. If they are mostly brown or black, then the minority would be white. They would thus be some sort of split between brown, black and white...exactly as I have said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
Finally Egypt has been subject to many invasions so the present population does not reflect the original population of antiquity. Much in the same way if you visit modern London where minorities make up a full third of the population, the population does not reflect the look of the majority of people found a mere 60 years ago. (Please note that unlike some folk here I have no issue with this).
As already extensively cited, most of the mgration into Egypt in historical times has been from the South via the slave trade. Egypt is "blacker" now that it was in the past. We have already posted Keita saying that the racial mix that you see now is very similar to ancient times, we have already posted any number of studies, etc. Migrations did not start in historical times, and it is a known fact that the migrations that made Egypt a mix started in the paleolithic.

The other thing that you are completely not getting is that Egypt is not tropical, but similar in lattitude otothe Middle East. Therefore, phenotyically, even Africans who evolved in situ over tens of thousands of years more closly resemble Middle Easterners than black Africans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
Bar the Greeks, no other population has been more subject to nonsense written about their history than the Egyptians.
Since you extensively cite things that you have never read, you are no judge of this. I have read all of Homer, Herodotus, Thucidydes, most of Xenophon, Polybius, most of Livy, all of Caesar, some of Josephus, all of Tactitus, Suetonius,over half of Plutarch, most of Arrian, The Augustin scribe, Ammianus Marcellenus, vast parts of Cassius Dio (very hard to find) some of Plato, various works of Cicero, as well as various works of Quintus of Smyrna, Euripides, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Apuleius, Ovid, and Virgil. I am currently working on finishing the last extant books of Livy and Sallust.

I always get a good chuckle when fellows like yourself try to tell me what a Greek or Roman author said. You have no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nograviti View Post
In truth, I think a lot of it stems from the fact that when you dig deep enough all evidence points to an original black African population (be it afro-asiatic, Bantu or more likely a mix of the two)
You may think this. You have a right to believe as you like. You are badly revealing your ignorance since the Bantu migrations did not even start until thousands of years AFTER Egypt was founded. But hey, they are bantus in your mind and that is all there is to it. Good job.

Last edited by cachibatches; 08-29-2016 at 01:27 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top