U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-20-2018, 04:37 AM
 
24,205 posts, read 17,598,750 times
Reputation: 9150

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
According to Wiki agriculture is actually developing in a positive way, away from export-oriented to sustainable, small-scale agriculture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe#Agriculture

Either way, land should not be given to foreigners, especially non-Africans, be it directly or indirectly.
Who are you to make this decision for the people in those nations? You have lots of foreign investors in America and in Europe, and in general most nations WELCOME foreign investment. If no one is investing in your nation, that's when you have abject poverty.

Now the nations involved may or may not need to change the terms of that investment, but foreign investment is crucial to the development of any nation.

Communism/third world liberation/socialism has been throughly debunked and every nation that sticks to that is a complete economic basket case.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-20-2018, 11:08 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,398 posts, read 19,311,556 times
Reputation: 8493
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Who are you to make this decision for the people in those nations? You have lots of foreign investors in America and in Europe, and in general most nations WELCOME foreign investment. If no one is investing in your nation, that's when you have abject poverty.

Now the nations involved may or may not need to change the terms of that investment, but foreign investment is crucial to the development of any nation.

Communism/third world liberation/socialism has been throughly debunked and every nation that sticks to that is a complete economic basket case.
First, I am not making decisions for anyone. Unfortunately.
Second, it is not me, but African farmers that are increasingly protesting the sale of their lands by their corrupt governments. There are lots of reports on that, for instance:
https://www.voanews.com/a/cameroonia...14/161565.html

So, I might ask you, who are you to defend those neo-colonial practices and corrupt governments?

And in terms of politics, what is the point in Africa repeating our mistakes? Our crops and agricultural products in general are full of pesticides and other chemicals that have to be used with large-scale agriculture because of its vulnerability. Low-profile agriculture has traditionally provided employment for a lot of people for thousands of years. Western-style agriculture does away with employment (especially for Africans, judging from many reports on Chinese takeovers). When there is no alternative employment like many parts of Africa, those people are rendered unemployed and eventually move to the cities, increasing all the problems there even further.
Not to mention the dependence on seeds and fertilizers big agro companies are trying to create, a dependence that has driven many Indian farmers into suicide.

Last edited by Neuling; 04-20-2018 at 11:25 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-21-2018, 06:32 PM
 
24,205 posts, read 17,598,750 times
Reputation: 9150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
First, I am not making decisions for anyone. Unfortunately.
Second, it is not me, but African farmers that are increasingly protesting the sale of their lands by their corrupt governments. There are lots of reports on that, for instance:
https://www.voanews.com/a/cameroonia...14/161565.html

So, I might ask you, who are you to defend those neo-colonial practices and corrupt governments?

And in terms of politics, what is the point in Africa repeating our mistakes? Our crops and agricultural products in general are full of pesticides and other chemicals that have to be used with large-scale agriculture because of its vulnerability. Low-profile agriculture has traditionally provided employment for a lot of people for thousands of years. Western-style agriculture does away with employment (especially for Africans, judging from many reports on Chinese takeovers). When there is no alternative employment like many parts of Africa, those people are rendered unemployed and eventually move to the cities, increasing all the problems there even further.
Not to mention the dependence on seeds and fertilizers big agro companies are trying to create, a dependence that has driven many Indian farmers into suicide.
If we had listened to American farmers, we would not have had the industrial age, we would have no roads, we would have nothing.

In the US, Europe, and Japan a very small percentage of the population farms. You're having that development in Africa as cities have grown and corporate farming has become more efficient.

Western style agriculture feeds the world. Ignore the freaks that want everyone to live in the stone age. Economic development and education provide new forms of employment.

Africa is developing in the right direction. Communists hate this, and so do BS "environmentalists" who just perceive Africa as a giant museum piece (which it isn't).

Lots of Africans move to the West for work. Clearly the masses of people aren't interested in farming, and the population has grown to the point where small scale farming is not POSSIBLE, not if people want to be fed and not go through famine cycles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2018, 11:07 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,398 posts, read 19,311,556 times
Reputation: 8493
Industrial farming is not feeding the world, it is poisoning it, and ruining the environment in the process.
Nor are there job alternatives for all those people abandoning farming. Why do you think there are such huge slums in African cities?

It has nothing to do with communism, what an odd thought.

Agriculture doesn't need to be efficient. To the contrary, the more people it binds, the better.

Here in Portugal there are more and more young people moving to the hinterland and engaging in small-scale farming, leaving their poorly paid city jobs behind. In other words, there is nothing wrong with agriculture anymore (there used to be a kind of stigma, basically of the stupid farmer that is not bright enough for the city) and people increasingly realize that as decent jobs in the cities are harder to get, rents rise.

Nor does farming have anything to do with a museum. When the **** hits the fan, farming is all we need. If necessary, we can live without programmers, engineers, bureaucrats, etc, but not without people growing food.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-22-2018, 05:05 PM
 
24,205 posts, read 17,598,750 times
Reputation: 9150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Industrial farming is not feeding the world, it is poisoning it, and ruining the environment in the process.
Nor are there job alternatives for all those people abandoning farming. Why do you think there are such huge slums in African cities?

It has nothing to do with communism, what an odd thought.

Agriculture doesn't need to be efficient. To the contrary, the more people it binds, the better.

Here in Portugal there are more and more young people moving to the hinterland and engaging in small-scale farming, leaving their poorly paid city jobs behind. In other words, there is nothing wrong with agriculture anymore (there used to be a kind of stigma, basically of the stupid farmer that is not bright enough for the city) and people increasingly realize that as decent jobs in the cities are harder to get, rents rise.

Nor does farming have anything to do with a museum. When the **** hits the fan, farming is all we need. If necessary, we can live without programmers, engineers, bureaucrats, etc, but not without people growing food.
Industrial farming is what feeds the modern world, and there is no real return to the countryside in any industrial country, including Portugal. En masse city people can't sustain themselves in the country, and those that do live in the country are still very much a part of the modern, post industrial world.

My great great grandmother had 14 kids and was a farmer. Of course that's all Black Americans could do in those days, is farm and be maids. Six of her children made it to adulthood. 8 died. Yes, that was typical of rural peasants then. You had lots of children to do the farm work, and a lot of them DIED.

Actual farming, small scale without industrial equipment is horribly hard work, and those who actually did do not want to do it and they mostly moved on to other things because quite frankly it sucks.

And by the way, F the planet. And F the environment.

Re: Africa, those slums are a part of the modernization process. They need more investment to take things to the next level, and that is definitely coming.

All these fake people claim to be concerned about the environment, and they're using electricity and manufactured goods to use the internet.

Of course just by breathing and living you're affecting the environment. The only want to to affect the environment is to be DEAD. Though the breakdown of your body releases carbon dioxide, so even in death there are environmental effects.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2018, 07:34 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,398 posts, read 19,311,556 times
Reputation: 8493
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Industrial farming is what feeds the modern world, and there is no real return to the countryside in any industrial country, including Portugal. En masse city people can't sustain themselves in the country, and those that do live in the country are still very much a part of the modern, post industrial world.

My great great grandmother had 14 kids and was a farmer. Of course that's all Black Americans could do in those days, is farm and be maids. Six of her children made it to adulthood. 8 died. Yes, that was typical of rural peasants then. You had lots of children to do the farm work, and a lot of them DIED.

Actual farming, small scale without industrial equipment is horribly hard work, and those who actually did do not want to do it and they mostly moved on to other things because quite frankly it sucks.

And by the way, F the planet. And F the environment.

Re: Africa, those slums are a part of the modernization process. They need more investment to take things to the next level, and that is definitely coming.

All these fake people claim to be concerned about the environment, and they're using electricity and manufactured goods to use the internet.

Of course just by breathing and living you're affecting the environment. The only want to to affect the environment is to be DEAD. Though the breakdown of your body releases carbon dioxide, so even in death there are environmental effects.
Nobody says people should return to the stone age, but yes, there is nothing wrong with a decent life in rural areas. Just because a farmer uses tools, does not mean it is industrial farming.
At the time of your great great grandma black people in general died early, didn't have much to do with farming.
A lot of Africans actually abandon agriculture because the West dumps its excess produce on African markets, at prices Africans can't compete with. The EU has a terrible track record in that respect.

I don't see any major change in Africa's development. I am more pessimistic than you. African countries tend to improve for a while, then they fall back again due to civil wars, corruption, undemocratic presidents clinging to power etc.

I do care about the environment and planet, it is the only one we got.
Just because someone uses electricity does not mean they are not more environmentally friendly than others. The average Portuguese or British person uses not even half the electricity a US American uses. Gulf states are even worse. So, it is not all or nothing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2018, 04:15 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
What are you trying to say? That Africans are really juveniles and can't make decisions on their own so the UN has to intervene and be their guardians? Please.

It's called the free market. .


It is NOT the free market. It is a corrupt leadership selling out their own people having been bribed to do so.


What are the farmers supposed to do? Why couldn't an arrangement have been made to allow the foreign investors to provide technical assistance, financing, equipment and markets so that these people could upgrade their skills.


This is in part why so many Africans are now fleeing across the Mediterranean to become beggars on the streets of Rome, Madrid or Paris.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2018, 04:17 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by kettlepot View Post
I think the OP skirted the real issue, which is not who is buying the land and what they are planting on it, but instead is that the people living and working the land currently do not have clear title.

.


the governments can give these people titles in the same way as they give foreign investors. Sadly poor starving people cannot pay bribes, and can be shot in cold blood if they protest.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2018, 04:20 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Who are you to make this decision for the people in those nations? .


Who are the "people" in those nations. The latest dictator who seized power in some coup, or the millions of people who occupied these lands for centuries since the pre colonial era. In pre colonial Africa land was held communally so titles weren't distributed. Given that "western" laws no apply it is up to the governments to provide title to these lands, either to individuals or to cooperatives.


If you want to now why so many Africans are suddenly going to Europe, usually to undergo humiliation, this is a partial explanation. the ultimate disgrace being the sale of many of these people as chattel slaves by Libyans, restoring the Arab slave trade that should have ended a century ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-23-2018, 04:28 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,931,227 times
Reputation: 3799
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
My great great grandmother had 14 kids and was a farmer. Of course that's all Black Americans could do in those days, is farm and be maids. Six of her children made it to adulthood. 8 died. Yes, that was typical of rural peasants then. You had lots of children to do the farm work, and a lot of them DIED.

.


And many fled the South when they were tossed off lands and their descendants now live in the killing fields of Chi-town. Much as the kids of these Africans collapse into crime in Paris, and increasingly in other parts of Europe.


There is a way to combine modern farming methods with the fact that people who have lived in a placfe for 1,000 years shouldn't be forceably removed.


You know how the removal happens. The local goons called soldiers arrive, bulldoze the people's homes, shoot to kill if they refuse to move. This while the local political oligarchs flock to Paris with the bribes received from non Africans.


Were the governments really interested in THEIR people they would arrange for the farmers to gain title, and for investors to provide, technical assistance, equipment, financing and access to markets. That way the standard of living is improved and countries get new exports.


Instead what will happen will be extensive industrial farming, massively overusing scarce water supplies. At some point the land becomes exhausted, the Sahara expands and millions of people crowd into cities where there are no jobs, many becoming part of the local Islamist thug group.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top