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Old 08-13-2016, 05:33 PM
 
271 posts, read 289,014 times
Reputation: 136

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
I disagree with your post completely. I tried watching the video and I got as far as 2:09. Sorry but this video is pathetic so far. If you want me to elaborate further let me know.
Please elaborate..Because I visited South Africa with a church in the early 2000's, and what I saw was similar to what was in that video. The whites there are still running everything with powerless token Black leaders put in place to give the illusion that apartheid is over when it is clearly not.
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Old 08-13-2016, 07:30 PM
 
274 posts, read 293,024 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by othello212 View Post
Please elaborate..Because I visited South Africa with a church in the early 2000's, and what I saw was similar to what was in that video. The whites there are still running everything with powerless token Black leaders put in place to give the illusion that apartheid is over when it is clearly not.
Please elaborate as well why you think the whites are still running everything with powerless token Black leaders. I'm interested to hear why you would think this.

The reasons I think the video is pathetic:
- He spent the 1st 2 minutes pretty much trying to push some kind of agenda
- He says no black people on the plane but I call BS since I've used the airport more than once
- He makes a comment about a black face movie on TV. I have no idea what movie he was watching but he does realise we get the bulk of our content from America right?
- He visits a rich area that is also a popular tourist destination and mentions that the servers are black (he clearly doesn't understand demographics)
- He then draws the conclusion that this means Apartheid is still alive. No, he doesn't understand demographics again and he clearly hasn't spoken to a single local person at this point.
- His next scene is him complaining he can't find "An African food spot in Africa". I'm not even going to bother with his inability to at least recognise Africa vs South Africa. What is he looking for here exactly? What is an African food spot? Does he not realise how out of touch his expectations are here?
- The next scene is him trying to speak to the guys in the township. While it's cool that he did get to go into the townships, personally I think he doesn't look like he's actually able to relate to the people there.

- Lastly Hout Bay - This comes down to him again not understanding the past and the current situation. Yes I agree that it was 100% wrong that they got pushed out during the Apartheid times but it's complicated.

Now let's be realistic:
Option A: The government goes eff the white people and gives the land back. Firstly where would you like those people to go? Do these people magically all get middle wage jobs to sustain this new lifestyle? This is a short term solution to a long term problem. It won't work.

Option B: The government doesn't waste all the tax money and actually uses it to uplift these people. Provide basic services. Humane living environments. Education for the next generation and then stimulate the economy so that they can get a job. This is doable. I have friends who have done it. Unfortunately the government does waste A LOT of tax money so it is moving slowly.

I honestly don't know what this guy expected to see but he is pushing his agenda hard in a place that I think he has very little connection to.
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Old 08-13-2016, 08:39 PM
 
271 posts, read 289,014 times
Reputation: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
Please elaborate as well why you think the whites are still running everything with powerless token Black leaders. I'm interested to hear why you would think this.

The reasons I think the video is pathetic:
- He spent the 1st 2 minutes pretty much trying to push some kind of agenda
- He says no black people on the plane but I call BS since I've used the airport more than once
- He makes a comment about a black face movie on TV. I have no idea what movie he was watching but he does realise we get the bulk of our content from America right?
- He visits a rich area that is also a popular tourist destination and mentions that the servers are black (he clearly doesn't understand demographics)
- He then draws the conclusion that this means Apartheid is still alive. No, he doesn't understand demographics again and he clearly hasn't spoken to a single local person at this point.
- His next scene is him complaining he can't find "An African food spot in Africa". I'm not even going to bother with his inability to at least recognise Africa vs South Africa. What is he looking for here exactly? What is an African food spot? Does he not realise how out of touch his expectations are here?
- The next scene is him trying to speak to the guys in the township. While it's cool that he did get to go into the townships, personally I think he doesn't look like he's actually able to relate to the people there.

- Lastly Hout Bay - This comes down to him again not understanding the past and the current situation. Yes I agree that it was 100% wrong that they got pushed out during the Apartheid times but it's complicated.

Now let's be realistic:
Option A: The government goes eff the white people and gives the land back. Firstly where would you like those people to go? Do these people magically all get middle wage jobs to sustain this new lifestyle? This is a short term solution to a long term problem. It won't work.

Option B: The government doesn't waste all the tax money and actually uses it to uplift these people. Provide basic services. Humane living environments. Education for the next generation and then stimulate the economy so that they can get a job. This is doable. I have friends who have done it. Unfortunately the government does waste A LOT of tax money so it is moving slowly.

I honestly don't know what this guy expected to see but he is pushing his agenda hard in a place that I think he has very little connection to.
Ok lets deal with what you said:
1. I don't know what "agenda" the video was pushing. It was basically a video showing the city. And it looked exactly like what I saw when I went there

2.I have been to several African countries and there are rarely a lot of black people traveling to or from African countries. This is because the system of white supremacy calls for most resources to be maldistributed into the hands of white society,so many black (in Africa and abroad) people cannot afford the trip.

3.The black face tv show in the video would never be shown on America television

4.In most of Capetown there are white customers and Black severs. Where in Capetown is this NOT the case?

5. The current situation in South Africa where whites are socially and economically on top is STILL apartheid. Apartheid just means WHITE SUPREMACY..Thats ALL it means.

6. So was the person lying in the video when they said they could not find African food?...Its out of touch to want an African dish....In Africa? (blank stare)

7. The person being able to "relate" to the people there is speculation and I don't even know what that means.I assume he is just showing the living conditions there. No need to "relate" or not relate.

8. You say its "complicated" thats the native Africans were subjugated and disenfranchised. No, its not complicated AT ALL..The explanation is very simple. SYSTEMATIC WHITE SUPREMACY.

Option A..There are PLENTY of resources and wealth in South Africa to allow the native people to live comfortable without them living in squalor. And there are acres of land there thats can be cultivated to allow EVERYONE THERE to live comfortably. But the white supremacists who run south Africa would rather it be run as a prison colony

Option B. The white supremacists in charge have no desire to raise the living conditions of the native Africans. They enjoy subjugating the people there and the native Africans should rise up and have an armed physical revolution and run their oppressors out of that land. Especially since they are the majority, they are already living in total squalor, and they have absolutely NOTHING to lose at this point.
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Old 08-14-2016, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Around the UK!
156 posts, read 110,489 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by othello212 View Post
Please elaborate. Because I visited South Africa with a church in the early 2000's, and what I saw was similar to what was in that video. The whites there are still running everything with powerless token Black leaders put in place to give the illusion that apartheid is over when it is clearly not.
Firstly "apartheid" or legalized discrimination was abolished with independence in 1994. But there is racial, social and cultural discrimination. As there is in every country that I've ever visited
Many of the South African "Black leaders" have spent the last 23 years enriching themselves, their families and their cronies. This is hardly the situation of "powerless token" people. Many of these "token Black leaders" are tokens. They are not competent to manage the organisations they head (an example here is the CEO of SAA, the national airline).
The political "leader" enrichment, nepotistic, kleptocratic paradigm also exists in many (most!) countries in the world. Rife all over East Europe, South America, Africa and Asia with more subtle forms in Europe and the US.
Unfortunately, South Africa has been a willing adopter of an entitlement model of society. You are owed something although you have done nothing to deserve it.
What's it like to be white in South Africa depends on your financial situation. If you are poor you are like a poor person anywhere. If you are wealthy you have an appropriate lifestyle.
If you are not poor and not rich and older you will be as optimistic as possible. In most cases, you are a "financial prisoner". You can expect no meaningful social security and your limited resources will not buy you a similar lifestyle in most countries.
So what it's like depends on many factors.
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Old 08-14-2016, 01:19 AM
 
274 posts, read 293,024 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by othello212 View Post
/snip
Before I respond to your points, can you please help me understand why you have this point of view? Why are you so convinced the country is controlled by white supremacists? And if you can back it up with some actual facts that'd be great.
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Old 08-14-2016, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles,CA & Scottsdale, AZ
1,934 posts, read 1,701,035 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
Before I respond to your points, can you please help me understand why you have this point of view? Why are you so convinced the country is controlled by white supremacists? And if you can back it up with some actual facts that'd be great.
While it's not controlled by White supremacists it's definitely controlled by whites and to say otherwise is a joke. I've been to south Africa (only Cape Town region so I can't speak for the rest of the country) around 10 times and the difference of lifestyle between your average white south african and black south african is absolutely shocking. I'm not saying that the relationship between blacks and whites is oppressive but it's definitely not equal. Having said that I do think South Africa has made great strides when it comes to race relations and I find Cape Town to be one of the best cities in the world.
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Old 08-14-2016, 03:52 AM
 
274 posts, read 293,024 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie View Post
While it's not controlled by White supremacists it's definitely controlled by whites and to say otherwise is a joke. I've been to south Africa (only Cape Town region so I can't speak for the rest of the country) around 10 times and the difference of lifestyle between your average white south african and black south african is absolutely shocking. I'm not saying that the relationship between blacks and whites is oppressive but it's definitely not equal. Having said that I do think South Africa has made great strides when it comes to race relations and I find Cape Town to be one of the best cities in the world.
This is what I'm not understanding from these posts. Are you expecting to find equally poor and equally rich people in an area?

Let me literally do the maths for you if you want to work with averages

National Level
White people 4,586,838 8.86%
Black people 41,000,938 79.20%
Total population 51,770,560

Unemployment July 2016 - 26.6%
White people - 1,220,098
Black people - 10,906,249

Now let's make every white person in South Africa unemployed and poor.

White people - 4,586,838
Black people - 10,906,249

They are still unnumbered by more than a factor of 2.

Cape Town
White 587,184 15.7% 156,190 unemployed
Black 1,443,650 38.6% 384,010 unemployed
Total 3,740,026 people

Again let's make every white person in Cape Town unemployed and poor.

So we now have 587,184 to 384,010. That's a ratio of 1.5:1 <- At this point you start seeing an "equally" poor society.

Honestly I'm open for debate on the topic. Maybe my logic is completely flawed here?

Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...28estimates.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town#Demographics
South Africa Unemployment Rate | 2000-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar
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Old 08-14-2016, 06:27 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,287 posts, read 4,865,859 times
Reputation: 21688
I have a friend who lived in Johannesburg. He described how most white people (who are the minority there) live behind gated homes and have security guards if they can afford it. He said it started after the end of apartheid because of the poverty in the mostly black community. He also told me that most of the police are now black and they turn a blind eye to what is happening.


I certainly wouldn't want to live like that and apparently he didn't either as he moved to Florida.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles,CA & Scottsdale, AZ
1,934 posts, read 1,701,035 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
This is what I'm not understanding from these posts. Are you expecting to find equally poor and equally rich people in an area?

Let me literally do the maths for you if you want to work with averages

National Level
White people 4,586,838 8.86%
Black people 41,000,938 79.20%
Total population 51,770,560

Unemployment July 2016 - 26.6%
White people - 1,220,098
Black people - 10,906,249

Now let's make every white person in South Africa unemployed and poor.

White people - 4,586,838
Black people - 10,906,249

They are still unnumbered by more than a factor of 2.

Cape Town
White 587,184 15.7% 156,190 unemployed
Black 1,443,650 38.6% 384,010 unemployed
Total 3,740,026 people

Again let's make every white person in Cape Town unemployed and poor.

So we now have 587,184 to 384,010. That's a ratio of 1.5:1 <- At this point you start seeing an "equally" poor society.

Honestly I'm open for debate on the topic. Maybe my logic is completely flawed here?

Sources
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...28estimates.29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Town#Demographics
South Africa Unemployment Rate | 2000-2016 | Data | Chart | Calendar
Those statistics are all well and good but at the end of the day, if you are a white south african I think it would be hard for you to actually believe that there is not an Inequality between white and black south Africans......I must admit I do find those numbers to be pretty shocking, didn't know there were that many unemployed whites (I must say Stellenbosh feels like a bubble of it's own though so maybe that's where my view came from). 63 percent of black children live in households that earn less than 800 rands compared to 4 percent of white childern. The average White south african family makes 6 times the amount of income that the average black south African family makes. My uncle works at a law firm in the Capetown area and just going off how monoracial his coworkers are you'd think South Africa was as white as Iowa...not to meanted I've never seen a brown or black face in their neighborhood unless they are working as nannies. In 2006 70 percent of South Africa's land was owned by white south africans. 51 percent of white south Africans enter some form of higher education compared to 12 percent of black south Africans and black south africans made up for over 90 percent of the countries poor . Once again.....I am in agreeance with you that White people in South Africa don't have a white power mentality like some try to make them out to have, and the country has definitely made great strides in lessening the racial inequality within South Africa, especially seeing as the apartheid was so recent.
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Old 08-14-2016, 10:57 AM
 
274 posts, read 293,024 times
Reputation: 300
Quote:
Originally Posted by i'm not a cookie View Post
Those statistics are all well and good but at the end of the day, if you are a white south african I think it would be hard for you to actually believe that there is not an Inequality between white and black south Africans......I must admit I do find those numbers to be pretty shocking, didn't know there were that many unemployed whites (I must say Stellenbosh feels like a bubble of it's own though so maybe that's where my view came from). 63 percent of black children live in households that earn less than 800 rands compared to 4 percent of white childern. The average White south african family makes 6 times the amount of income that the average black south African family makes. My uncle works at a law firm in the Capetown area and just going off how monoracial his coworkers are you'd think South Africa was as white as Iowa...not to meanted I've never seen a brown or black face in their neighborhood unless they are working as nannies. In 2006 70 percent of South Africa's land was owned by white south africans. 51 percent of white south Africans enter some form of higher education compared to 12 percent of black south Africans and black south africans made up for over 90 percent of the countries poor . Once again.....I am in agreeance with you that White people in South Africa don't have a white power mentality like some try to make them out to have, and the country has definitely made great strides in lessening the racial inequality within South Africa, especially seeing as the apartheid was so recent.
My argument has never been that there isn't inequality. I know there is Based on the posts here, people just seem surprised that that is the case?

Maybe I'm just bad at explaining myself in my posts haha
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