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Old 09-03-2016, 01:58 AM
 
271 posts, read 292,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Because you always run away from this, except when you are blaming the ANC for this? Look at the various posts here by whites going on as if they suffer more than do blacks in SA.


SA will never solve the problem until there is honest discussion. I am amused that whites, who benefitted immensely from apartheid, whether they supported it or not, developing this victimhood mentality when a 1 second analysis of SA will show that whites still enjoy disproportionate advantages.


Imagine in an Africa nation a school run by whites so empowered that it forces black girls to chemically alter their hair (which costs money, time, and damages their hair in the long term). That is very bold I will suggest.
Alright, so then let's have a discussion.

So there are possibly a few views here to consider from my side.

The general view that we're all aware of that yes there is still racism in South Africa and it can come from either side. Unless you would like to try the argument that black people can't be racist here?

The media's view where they'll shine a spotlight on specific cases.

My day to day life view. To me this outweighs the media's view as this is what I actually experience and I'm fully aware that the media's goal is make a profit which can lead to sensationalism.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,619 posts, read 8,523,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Why don't you add SA to the black genocide list too? Way more blacks are murdered.


In fact the most open bigotry by SA blacks is towards blacks from other parts of Africa. Yes, from nations which SUPPORTED them, at great cost at times, during the fight against apartheid.
I bet you more Somalis, Mozambicans, and Zimbabweans are attacked and killed than white South Africans.
that's tribalism pure and simple always has been always will be.
Africa Sun News - Africa Wars & Conflicts
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Oroville, California
3,206 posts, read 4,707,594 times
Reputation: 5570
Quote:
Originally Posted by othello212 View Post
Here is an honest video about what South Africa is really like. White people are living the life of luxury there in Capetown. So as a white person you would be 100% fine because there is still an apartheid system firmly in place in South Africa.
http://youtu.be/UDGbLJYEy44
That guy is an ignoramus from Los Angeles who really knows nothing of the people or history of Cape Town and the Western Cape. He should have stayed home instead of working his big, stupid American mouth in another country before doing a little research. Don't judge Americans by him - we're not all like that.
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Old 09-17-2016, 06:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by destinedtodave View Post
Since when do 2 wrongs make a right?
Except that there is little black revenge against whites in SA. Given that humans normally do exact revenge against those who are abusive towards them the absence of this is to be admired.


Blacks in SA are way more violent towards blacks from elsewhere in Africa than they are towards white South Africans. Even though those countries were very supportive of the anti Apartheid struggle, at times being punished for this by SA.
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
Alright, so then let's have a discussion.

So there are possibly a few views here to consider from my side.

The general view that we're all aware of that yes there is still racism in South Africa and it can come from either side. Unless you would like to try the argument that black people can't be racist here?

The media's view where they'll shine a spotlight on specific cases.

My day to day life view. To me this outweighs the media's view as this is what I actually experience and I'm fully aware that the media's goal is make a profit which can lead to sensationalism.

Thoughts?


The argument that blacks cannot enforce their racism (any one can be racist) is applicable to a great degree in the USA. Even in spheres where blacks might have power it is within the context of a white dominated society, so even those instances there are constraints.


Clearly this isn't applicable to SA where blacks are indeed powerful enough to enforce racist attitudes towards whites. Both blacks and whites have tremendous capacity to hurt each other's interests by engaging in subtle racism. I am not discussing criminal behavior that might be rooted in racism. I am talking about day to day interactions by people who are normal and usually fairly decent.


Clearly in many respects economically, even if not politically, whites in SA still have power that exceeds their numbers so let us not pretend as if racism perpetrated by blacks is equivalent to that perpetrated by whites.


Clearly whites in SA are more empowered than they would be in say Nigeria.


Middle class blacks still have to fit into a white dominated world and to adjust to some degree to white cultural value systems and norms.

Aside from being careful not to display a sense of superiority to blacks how are you forced to adjust to the fact that you live in a majority black country? Do they force you to learn any African languages, or curtail aspects of your indigenous culture in order to fit in?
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:07 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
that's tribalism pure and simple always has been always will be.
Africa Sun News - Africa Wars & Conflicts
And yet it wasn't tribal when Bosnians were being killed by Serbs? Its amazing how racism can surface.


Much of the violence isn't because some on is of a different ethnicity. Its because they are a FOREIGNER. Zimbabweans and Mozambicans might even share ethnicity with some South Africans.
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Old 09-17-2016, 07:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles View Post
Don't judge Americans by him - we're not all like that.


And is there an "American" view of racism in SA. I am sure that these attitudes are simply extensions of views that they have towards racism in the USA. No shock given that the racism in these two nations are similar given that both nations of histories in extreme bigotry.
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Old 09-18-2016, 02:48 AM
 
271 posts, read 292,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Clearly in many respects economically, even if not politically, whites in SA still have power that exceeds their numbers so let us not pretend as if racism perpetrated by blacks is equivalent to that perpetrated by whites.
Can you please elaborate here. I'm not sure I follow how you go from 1 to the other? Reads more like inequality vs. racism? Where they're 2 separate problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Clearly whites in SA are more empowered than they would be in say Nigeria.
Is this bad? If so, why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Middle class blacks still have to fit into a white dominated world and to adjust to some degree to white cultural value systems and norms.
More of a western (and China) dominated world wouldn't you say? Why is this reduced to a black and white statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Aside from being careful not to display a sense of superiority to blacks how are you forced to adjust to the fact that you live in a majority black country? Do they force you to learn any African languages, or curtail aspects of your indigenous culture in order to fit in?
I don't appreciate the bold part. Please think before from making these kinds of statements as you're basically making an assumption on how I live my life.

And yes we were required to do 2 years of Zulu and 8 years of Afrikaans in school and last I heard some universities have introduced Zulu as compulsory (UKZN). I know my friends studying medicine are required to study Xhosa as well.

In terms of my "indigenous culture". I'm maybe 5th or 6th generation South African,
I have no idea where in Europe my ancestors are originally from.
I have no idea what my "indigenous culture" would be.

So for all I know they've already done that?
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:34 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dowsieboi View Post
Can you please elaborate here. I'm not sure I follow how you go from 1 to the other? Reads more like inequality vs. racism? Where they're 2 separate problems.


Is this bad? If so, why?


More of a western (and China) dominated world wouldn't you say? Why is this reduced to a black and white statement?



I don't appreciate the bold part. Please think before from making these kinds of statements as you're basically making an assumption on how I live my life.

And yes we were required to do 2 years of Zulu and 8 years of Afrikaans in school and last I heard some universities have introduced Zulu as compulsory (UKZN). I know my friends studying medicine are required to study Xhosa as well.

In terms of my "indigenous culture". I'm maybe 5th or 6th generation South African,
I have no idea where in Europe my ancestors are originally from.
I have no idea what my "indigenous culture" would be.

So for all I know they've already done that?
The white dominated world referred to the world of South Africa, and I contrast it with Nigeria. You will admit that the private sector in South Africa is white dominated in a way that it is not in Nigeria. And that blacks still have to make more accommodations to whites, which they definitely don't have to do in Nigeria. If you go to Nigeria you learn how to deal with them, or you leave.


As to learning African languages. That is like being forced to learn a foreign language in school. Once you leave long forgotten. To what extent does the day to day survival of white South Africans depend on having to adjust to, and to live within value systems, and cultures of blacks, who are the majority group?


Your culture isn't indigenous to Africa. You can slice it and dice it all you wish but its roots are fundamentally European. Highly transformed yes, but still European based. In fact even the white South African accent is but a regional British accent.


Luckily black South Africans don't to white South Africans what Europeans have done to African immigrants to that continent, and that is to force them to fully assimilate, or leave them severely marginalized.


You can also use my assumptions about you to elaborate on how you as a white South African has had to make accommodations to living in a majority black society. Acting defensive doesn't allow you to make your case, and that is as a white South African you still have numerous advantages over a black South African. That is unless you get into politics or work for government.


And yes the inequality in South Africa is based on race, given the fact that one of the most brutish forms of bigotry was sanctioned by law up to a mere generation ago.
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:38 AM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,923,923 times
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BTW 8 years of Afrikaans, vs. 2 years of Zulu. Hmmmmm. I think that my point has been made. I can see the utility of English, given that its a global language, but why is an in depth knowledge of Afrikaans more important than Zulu, or Xhosa?
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