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Old 06-25-2017, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bamba_boy View Post
I worked for 4 years in Kuwait and Saudi and had two long vacations in Egypt. There were strong parallels between modern Egypt and ancient Egypt.

1) Today's Egypt is just as multi-racial as the USA's big cities. The standard Alexandrian has a very caucasian appearance including a minority with light brown or dark blond hair and blue eyes. From their history, they probably have more Greek and Italian blood than ancient Egyptian blood. In Aswan, near the Sudan border to the south, a walk around the city reveals more people resembling inhabitants of Compton than Athens! In big cities like Cairo, there is a huge diversity of white, olive-skinned (probably the majority), and brown of all hues. I don't think Egyptians themselves make a big deal out of it and you see many "mixed" couples, although they probably don't use that term.

2) In the Cairo museum as well as out in the field in the tombs of The Valley of the Kings, are both statues and even painted bas-reliefs that showed a similar diversity of color back in the day of the Pharaohs. Also, history showed that the royal class moved from dynasties rooted in lower Egypt (Delta with the Med) with lighter skin and European features to Nubian/Cush dynasties that conquered or negotiated their way to ruling huge Egyptian empires encompassing parts of the middle East in Asia, all of modern Egypt, and the northern half of modern Sudan. Their statues had faces with unambiguous African features and the bas-reliefs dark brown skin. At the other extreme, the last dynasty - the Ptolemies - ruled Egypt fully embracing the old Egyptian customs but were basically light-skinned Greeks. The Egyptian people apparently followed them whole-heartedly despite their light skin because they embraced the customs and traditional pantheon of Egyptian Gods. Race and skin color just weren't a big thing to Egyptians and they are to us moderns!

3) I'm white and my wife is black. We had lively discussions before the first trip about how I insisted all the Egyptian rulers were Mediterranean whites. It only took a short time on the first trip to convince me I was wrong. She won't let me post her picture here but I have her standing next to a small profile statue of a middle kingdom queen in Luxor with her own face in profile. They could be sisters!
I read that the Ancient Egyptians had no concept of Jim Crow it was Egypt vs. everybody else, I also
read the concept was if that person embraced Egyptian gods, obeyed Pharaoh that was enough to be
considered an Egyptian.

I was told by a friend that her niece went on a field trip to Egypt with her Black American college group
they had a great time. They went down on an excursion to Nubia..She said when they got to Nubia, the
Nubians said "Wow, You guys are dark like us!"

 
Old 06-30-2017, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
I think you missed my point, my point was that Black Africans were involved in Ancient Egypt, that was
my point about Nubia. My major point was that Americans/Westerners have racialized Ancient Egypt one
way or the other. I DO KNOW THAT Europeans/Americans have attempted to divorce Ancient Egypt from
Africa pointing it to the Mediterranean.

)..


Egyptian civilization did have some influence on Greek civilization which is viewed as the foundation of European civilization. But then there is the lie about Africa as the "dark continent" bereft of any history and civilization. So attempts were made to separate Egypt from the rest of Africa instead of seeing it as a bridge which connected Africa, Asia and Europe. Impacted by all, and in turn impacting these peoples.


Well it turns out that the Nile and the Sahara were channels of knowledge flows as was the Mediterranean. While ancient Egyptians weren't a "black civilization" they way that some Afrocentric people will have us belief neither was it a "white civilization".


The social construct of race emerged long after, this to justify the treatment of slaves in the Americas, in addition to their subsequent stigmatization as slavery ended. While Egyptians were aware of skin color they didn't attach the value to it that Europeans began to, especially after the 17th century. They happily enslaved every one. White Europeans, black Nilotics and the brown people from the surrounding areas. There was a definite relationship with Nubia, and Nubians would be considered "black" using today's criteria of race.


I suggest that people stop using Egypt to further their own agendas, whether it is to paint it as a "black civilization" or to paint it as a "white civilization".


The fact also remains that the white washing of the Egyptian civilizations was begun by Eurocentric racists who wanted to paint ancient Egypt as a Mediterranean civilization, instead of the north east African civilization that it in fact was. One which had ties with peoples to the south, to the east, and across the Mediterranean to the north.
 
Old 06-30-2017, 04:51 PM
 
7,437 posts, read 5,928,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
.

The American/Western subtext behind this is "Egypt is in Africa, "Blacks" are in Africa Egypt cannot possibly have "Black"
involvement because "Black" is inferior. OR the reaction to this is: "Blacks" are indigenous to and are in Africa and Egypt is
in Africa, therefore Egypt is "Black".

Armchair Americans are PROJECTING their own AMERICAN RACIAL HANG-UPS onto the Ancient Egyptians in 2017.


Quite true. Egypt was a kaleidoscope of peoples as diverse as what one will see in today's Egypt. Evidence of this is in the art work that can be found.
 
Old 07-01-2017, 01:24 PM
 
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Seems to have become an argument about the race of ancient Egyptians. It should be noted that Egypt is a nexus of three continents and people have been migrating through it for at least 50,000 years. They were always the mixed,mostly brown people that we have seen in hsitorical times, AND THIS IS WELL KNOWN BY THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY:

In fact, they are "blacker" now due to the massive number of people moved in the Arab slave trade.

Here is the truth in a series of snippets. Believe it or not, the scientific community decided this a long time ago:

Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt
A. Stevanovitch
Mitochondrial DNA Sequence Diversity in a Sedentary Population from Egypt - Stevanovitch - 2004 - Annals of Human Genetics - Wiley Online Library
Mitochondrial genetic data from North Africa are documented by two groups of populations: one composed of populations of the Nile Valley, and the other by populations of the Maghreb. The Nile Valley has been shown to be a migration corridor with populations connected by gene flow (Krings et al. 1999), and phylogeographical analysis of mitochondrial lineages of populations from the Maghreb suggests that modern humans appeared from the Near East following at least two migrations around 50 000 years and 10 000 years ago. A possible migration from Europe may also have occurred during the Neolithic period (Macaulay et al. 1999).


Population history of north Africa: evidence from classical genetic markers.-
Bosch
Population history of North Africa: Evidence from classical genetic markers
After an intensive bibliographic search, we compiled all the available data on allele frequencies for classical genetic polymorphisms referring to North African populations and synthesized the data in an attempt to reconstruct the populations' demographic history using two complementary methods: (1) principal components analysis and (2) genetic distances represented by neighbor-joining trees. In both analyses the main feature of the genetic landscape in northern Africa is an east-west pattern of variation pointing to the differentiation between the Berber and Arab population groups of the northwest and the populations of Libya and Egypt. Moreover, Libya and Egypt show the smallest genetic distances with the European populations, including the Iberian Peninsula. The most plausible interpretation of these results is that, although demic diffusion during the Neolithic could explain the genetic similarity between northeast Africa and Europe by a parallel process of gene flow from the Near East, a Mesolithic (or older) differentiation of the populations in the northwestern regions with later limited gene flow is needed to understand the genetic picture. The most isolated groups (Mauritanians, Tuaregs, and south Algerian Berbers) were the most differentiated and, although no clear structure can be discerned among the different Arab- and Berber-speaking groups, Arab speakers as a whole are closer to Egyptians and Libyans. By contrast, the genetic contribution of sub-Saharan Africa appears to be small.


Near eastern neolithic genetic input in a small oasis of the Egyptian Western Desert.
M Kujanova 2009
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19425100
Notwithstanding signs of expected genetic drift, we still found clear genetic evidence of a strong Near Eastern input that can be dated into the Neolithic. This is revealed by high frequencies and high internal variability of several mtDNA lineages from haplogroup T. The whole genome sequencing strategy and molecular dating allowed us to detect the accumulation of local mtDNA diversity to 5,138 +/- 3,633 YBP. Similarly, theY-chromosome gene pool reveals high frequencies of the Near Eastern J1


The Levant versus the Horn of Africa: Evidence for Bidirectional Corridors of Human Migrations
JR LUIS
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/
"Paleoanthropological evidence indicates that both the Levantine corridor and the Horn of Africa served, repeatedly, as migratory corridors between Africa and Eurasia. We have begun investigating the roles of these passageways in bidirectional migrations of anatomically modern humans, by analyzing 45 informative biallelic markers as well as 10 microsatellite loci on the nonrecombining region of the Y chromosome (NRY) in 121 and 147 extant males from Oman and northern Egypt, respectively. The present study uncovers three important points concerning these demic movements: (1)The E3b1-M78 and E3b3-M123 lineages, as well as the R1*-M173 lineages, mark gene flow between Egypt and the Levant during the Upper Paleolithic and Mesolithic. (2) In contrast, the Horn of Africa appears to be of minor importance in the human migratory movements between Africa and Eurasia represented by these chromosomes, an observation based on the frequency distributions of E3b*-M35 (no known downstream mutations) and M173. (3) The areal diffusion patterns of G-M201, J-12f2, the derivative M173 haplogroups, and M2 suggest more recent genetic associations between the Middle East and Africa, involving the Levantine corridor and/or Arab slave routes. Affinities to African groups were also evaluated by determining the NRY haplogroup composition in 434 samples from seven sub-Saharan African populations. Oman and Egypt’s NRY frequency distributions appear to be much more similar to those of the Middle East than to any sub-Saharan African population, suggesting a much larger Eurasian genetic component"


"Synthetic maps of Africa". The History and Geography of Human Genes.
Cavalli-Sforza.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Frw...cover#v=onepag e&q&f=false
(NOTE: LINK WILL NOT TAKE YOU TO THE EXACT PAGES)
The gradient is clearly rooted in the relatively ancient presence of Caucasoids in a Northern strip along the Mediterranean and in additions from West Asia, which are visible in the second and third components....the C gene shows a clear North-South gradient, being frequent amongst Caucasoids and almost absent in sub-Sahara Africa. THERE ARE PEAKS IN EGYPT AND IN NORTHWESTERN AFRICA


Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
Henn
Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations
We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe.


Y-chromosome analysis in Egypt suggests a genetic regional continuity in northeastern Africa
Manni
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12495079
"In conclusion, our analyses have identified a genetic regional continuity between the northeastern part of Africa (Egypt), the Middle East, and southern Europe. In agreement with the ethnohistorical connections between NE Africa and the Middle East, the genetic data confirm that Egypt, occupying an intermediate position along these routes, has been an important contact zone between the three continents."


The emerging tree of West Eurasian mtDNAs: a synthesis of control-region sequences and RFLPs.
Macaulay
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1377722/
We show that the main indigenous North African cluster is a sister group to the most ancient cluster of European mtDNAs, from which it diverged approximately 50,000 years ago.


Mitochondrial DNA structure in North Africa reveals a genetic discontinuity in the Nile
Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid
Mitochondrial DNA structure in North Africa reveals a genetic discontinuity in the Nile Valley - Fadhlaoui-Zid - 2011 - American Journal of Physical Anthropology - Wiley Online Library
Human population movements in North Africa have been mostly restricted to an east-west direction due to the geographical barriers imposed by the Sahara Desert and the Mediterranean Sea. Although these barriers have not completely impeded human migrations, genetic studies have shown that an east-west genetic gradient exists. However, the lack of genetic information of certain geographical areas and the focus of some studies in parts of the North African landscape have limited the global view of the genetic pool of North African populations. To provide a global view of the North African genetic landscape and population structure, we have analyzed
2,300 North African mitochondrial DNA lineages (including 269 new sequences from Libya, in the first mtDNA study of the general Libyan population). Our results show a clinal distribution of certain haplogroups, some of them more frequent in Western (H, HV0, L1b, L3b, U6) or Eastern populations (L0a, R0a, N1b, I, J) that might be the result of human migrations from the Middle East, sub-Saharan Africa, and Europe


North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
Federico Sánchez-Quinto
North African Populations Carry the Signature of Admixture with Neandertals
The results of the f4 ancestry ratio test (Table 2 and Table S1) show that North African populations vary in the percentage of Neandertal inferred admixture, primarily depending on the amount of European or Near Eastern ancestry they present (Table 1). Populations like North Morocco and Egypt, with the highest European and Near Eastern component (~40%), have also the highest amount of Neandertal ancestry (~60–70%)....Furthermore, the Neandertal's genetic signal is higher in populations with a local, pre-Neolithic North African ancestry. Therefore, the detected ancient admixture is not due to recent Near Eastern or European migrations.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz50_nx8UDg


Who were the ancient Egyptians? Dental affinities among Neolithic through postdynastic peoples
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16331657
JD IRISH 2006
Qualitative and quantitative methods are employed to describe and compare up to 36 dental morphological variants in 15 Neolithic through Roman-period Egyptian samples. Trait frequencies are determined, and phenetic affinities are calculated using the mean measure of divergence and Mahalanobis D2 statistics for discrete traits; the most important traits in generating this intersample variation are identified with correspondence analysis. Assuming that the samples are representative of the populations from which they derive, and that phenetic similarity provides an estimate of genetic relatedness, these affinities are suggestive of overall population continuity. That is, other than a few outliers exhibiting extreme frequencies of nine influential traits, the dental samples appear to be largely homogenous and can be characterized as having morphologically simple, mass-reduced teeth. These findings are contrasted with those resulting from previous skeletal and other studies, and are used to appraise the viability of five Egyptian peopling scenarios. Specifically, affinities among the 15 time-successive samples suggest that: 1) there may be a connection between Neolithic and subsequent predynastic Egyptians, 2) predynastic Badarian and Naqada peoples may be closely related, 3) the dynastic period is likely an indigenous continuation of the Naqada culture, 4) there is support for overall biological uniformity through the dynastic period, and 5) this uniformity may continue into postdynastic times.

Research on ancient DNA in the Near East
Mateusz Baca
Research on ancient DNA in the Near East | Martyna Molak - Academia.edu
To obtain the frequencies of these mtDNA types, amplification of the HVRI region and three RFLP markers was conducted. The authors succeeded in analysing RFLP markers in 34 samples and HVRI sequences in 18 of the samples. Both populations, ancient and contemporary, fit the north-south clinal distribution of “southern” and “northern” mtDNA types (Graver et al. 2001). However, significant differences were found between these populations. Based on an increased frequency of HpaI 3592 (+) haplotypes in the contemporary Dakhlehian population, the authors suggested that, since Roman times, gene flow from the Sub-Saharan region has affected gene frequencies of individuals from the oasis.


mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile valley
C. Fox, 1997
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9158841
The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26·7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa I (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68·7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution.

mtDNA Analysis of Nile River Valley Populations: A Genetic Corridor or a Barrier to Migration?
Krings
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10090902
To assess the extent to which the Nile River Valley has been a corridor for human migrations between Egypt and sub-Saharan Africa, we analyzed mtDNA variation in 224 individuals from various locations along the river. Sequences of the first hypervariable segment (HV1) of the mtDNA control region and a polymorphic HpaI site at position 3592 allowed us to designate each mtDNA as being of “northern” or “southern” affiliation. Proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the southern Sudan. At slowly evolving sites within HV1, northern-mtDNA diversity was highest in Egypt and lowest in the southern Sudan, and southern-mtDNA diversity was highest in the southern Sudan and lowest in Egypt, indicating that migrations had occurred bidirectionally along the Nile River Valley. Egypt and Nubia have low and similar amounts of divergence for both mtDNA types, which is consistent with historical evidence for long-term interactions between Egypt and Nubia. Spatial autocorrelation analysis demonstrates a smooth gradient of decreasing genetic similarity of mtDNA types as geographic distance between sampling localities increases, strongly suggesting gene flow along the Nile, with no evident barriers. We conclude that these migrations probably occurred within the past few hundred to few thousand years and that the migration from north to south was either earlier or lesser in the extent of gene flow than the migration from south to north.


A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez
ARREDI Et. Al
...Since the estimates of the times to the most recent common ancestor (TMRCAs) of the most common haplogroups are quite recent, we suggest that the North African pattern of Y-chromosomal variation is largely of Neolithic origin. Thus, we propose that the Neolithic transition in this part of the world was accompanied by demic diffusion of Afro-Asiatic–speaking pastoralists from the Middle East.

The mtDNA legacy of the Levantine early Upper Palaeolithic in Africa
Olivieri A
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/314/5806/1767.abstract
Sequencing of 81 entire human mitochondrial DNAs (mtDNAs) belonging to haplogroups M1 and U6 reveals that these predominantly North African clades arose in southwestern Asia and moved together to Africa about 40,000 to 45,000 years ago. Their arrival temporally overlaps with the event(s) that led to the peopling of Europe by modern humans and was most likely the result of the same change in climate conditions that allowed humans to enter the Levant, opening the way to the colonization of both Europe and North Africa


www(The biomedical scientists November 2003).
.cs.oswego.edu/~schofield/news/nefertiti.pdf‎
In the case of the skull believed by a number of experts to be Nefertiti, digital X-rays gave Evison and Schofield an image of the skull inside of the mummy...this particular skull could be classified as Indo-European.

http://www.readcube.com/articles/10....jpa.1330360603
(Brace, 1993)
"The Predynastic of Upper Egypt and the Late Dynastic of Lower Egypt are more closely related to each other than to any other population. As a whole, they show ties with the European Neolithic, North Africa, modern Europe, and, more remotely, India, but not at all with sub-Saharan Africa, eastern Asia... ...Oceania, or the New World. Adjacent people in the Nile valley show similarities in trivial traits in an unbroken series from the delta in the north southward through Nubia and all the way to Somalia at the equator. At the same time, the gradient in skin color and body proportions suggests long-term adaptive response to selective forces appropriate to the latitude where they occur...
...We conclude that the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."
The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1325007/
BRACE
The assessment of prehistoric and recent human craniofacial dimensions supports the picture documented by genetics that the extension of Neolithic agriculture from the Near East westward to Europe and across North Africa was accomplished by a process of demic diffusion (11–15)....

....When the samples used in Fig. 1 are compared by the use of canonical variate plots as in Fig. 2, the seperateness of the Niger-Congo speakers is again quite clear. Interestingly enough, however, the small Natufian sample falls between the Niger-Congo group and the other samples used. Fig 2 shows the plot produced by the first two canonical variates, but the same thing happens when canonical variates 1 and 3 (not shown here) are used. This placement suggests that there may have been a Sub-Saharan African element in the make-up of the Natufians (the putative ancestors of the subsequent Neolithic), although in this particular test there is no such evident presence in the North African or Egyptian samples. As shown in Fig. 1, the Somalis and the Egyptian Bronze Age sample from Naquada may also have a hint of a Sub-Saharan African component. That was not borne out in the canonical variate plot (Fig 2.), and there was no evidence of such an involvement in the Algerian Neolithic (Gambetta) sample.
Professor P. F. Ceccaldi, with a research team behind him, studied some hairs which were removed from the mummy's scalp. Ramesses II was 90 years-old when he died, and his hair had turned white. Ceccaldi determined that the reddish-yellow colour of the mummy's hair had been brought about by its being dyed with a dilute henna solution; it proved to be an example of the cosmetic attentions of the embalmers. However, traces of the hair's original colour (in youth), remain in the roots, even into advanced old age. Microscopic examinations proved that the hair roots contained traces of natural red pigments, and that therefore, during his youth, Ramesses II had been red-haired. It was concluded that these red pigments did not result from the hair somehow fading, or otherwise altering post-mortem, but did indeed represent Ramesses' natural hair colour. Ceccaldi also studied a cross-section of the hairs, and he determined from their oval shape, that Ramesses had been "cymotrich" (wavy-haired). Finally, he stated that such a combination of features showed that Ramesses had been a "leucoderm" (white-skinned person). [Balout, et al. (1985) 254-257.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8WKXX4pij8
 
Old 07-01-2017, 01:39 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,234,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
Quite true. Egypt was a kaleidoscope of peoples as diverse as what one will see in today's Egypt. Evidence of this is in the art work that can be found.
The artwork doesn't provide evidence in regards to the breakdown by numbers or who the genetic core founder population of the culture was. The can only be done by genetics.
 
Old 07-10-2017, 10:56 PM
 
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East Africa is not easy to get to from West africa. Its quite possible that there wasent much mixing until the last 3 or 4 thousand years. My family is Ethiopian and there is a shockingly small amount of what would be considered "African" DNA in us. Most old families that I know that have been tested are the same. We have much more in common genetically to Eastern Indians and Europeans then West Africans. In Africa it is believed that Western African and Eastern African peoples are entirely different peoples. They probably were at one point but the last 5000 years or so have provided plenty of mixing.
If you actually read the studies that were presented above, You will find that they were conducted on a small handfull of people. Most studies only had a few dozen participants. It is really reaching to claim that as proof of anything. Just another Theory.
Even thou the Egyptians probably weren't "Black" they were most probably African. The same Africans that most of the Middle east, Europe and southern asia descended from.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joewy View Post
East Africa is not easy to get to from West africa. Its quite possible that there wasent much mixing until the last 3 or 4 thousand years. My family is Ethiopian and there is a shockingly small amount of what would be considered "African" DNA in us. Most old families that I know that have been tested are the same. We have much more in common genetically to Eastern Indians and Europeans then West Africans. In Africa it is believed that Western African and Eastern African peoples are entirely different peoples. They probably were at one point but the last 5000 years or so have provided plenty of mixing.
If you actually read the studies that were presented above, You will find that they were conducted on a small handfull of people. Most studies only had a few dozen participants. It is really reaching to claim that as proof of anything. Just another Theory.
Even thou the Egyptians probably weren't "Black" they were most probably African. The same Africans that most of the Middle east, Europe and southern asia descended from.
The studies presented above are authoritative, because of the extreme consistency of results (North African population is the result of back migrations into Africa that took place before historical times), and the lack of any studies that say anything else. Also, there are dozens upon dozens more. I just presented the ones with the easiest conclusions to understand, and the ones that focus most narrowly on Egypt.

To say that is it "just theory," similar extensive results would have to be demonstrated that prove otherwise. Very few exist. When the Afrocentrists try to post DNA and other studies, they usually do not understand the conclusions, which is why I higlighted the conclusions of those I posted.

You seem to agree with me on most things. But this is how science is done. Post 144 ca be taken as the Bible on the subject, and we can add more it you like.
 
Old 07-11-2017, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,203 posts, read 1,578,850 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Egyptians are African, their race doesn't it matter to me IMO. Africa is Africa. That is why Pan-Africans should always include Egyptians and other North Africans when talking Pan-Africanism.
That is a GREAT point.
 
Old 07-13-2017, 08:15 AM
 
178 posts, read 100,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
The studies presented above are authoritative, because of the extreme consistency of results (North African population is the result of back migrations into Africa that took place before historical times), and the lack of any studies that say anything else. Also, there are dozens upon dozens more. I just presented the ones with the easiest conclusions to understand, and the ones that focus most narrowly on Egypt.

To say that is it "just theory," similar extensive results would have to be demonstrated that prove otherwise. Very few exist. When the Afrocentrists try to post DNA and other studies, they usually do not understand the conclusions, which is why I higlighted the conclusions of those I posted.

You seem to agree with me on most things. But this is how science is done. Post 144 ca be taken as the Bible on the subject, and we can add more it you like.
Like I said too few subjects to call it fact.

Think about this. You could walk down the streets 20 years ago in Los Angeles and take a few hundred DNA samples and you would determine that Los angeles was Caucasian with a little African thrown in. Today a mere 20 years later it would show that Los Angeles is mainly Latin with a little African and Caucasian thrown in. So who would you determine are the Californians? Latins or Caucasians. The answer depends on the time and place.

What the data you provided seems to say to me is that Caucasians most probably originated from Africa.
It is not really likely that people tried to reenter africa from Europe. People in general protect what they have and people they dont know are invaders and are generally treated as such. People looking for a better life would go to where no one lives. If the leaders of the culture were of a specific race it is most likely that they are the original peoples.
 
Old 07-13-2017, 10:48 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
2,777 posts, read 1,057,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joewy View Post
Like I said too few subjects to call it fact.
.
There are no absolute "facts" in science, only some measurement +/- some level of error. True, many of the studies quoted have small sample sizes, thus, large error ranges, reducing our confidence in any single study, but, as Cachi- suggests, the large number of studies with similar conclusions increases our confidence in the concept.

Another aspect to consider is that "migration" in prehistoric times should not be confused with an "Oregon
Trail- pack up everything and invade a new territory 2000 miles away" paradigm, but more an expansion of territorial boundaries by a growing population. Back-migration would be common when it meant marrying the girl you left behind last year on the other side of the river, and less common the further away your clan got from its origin 2 centuries earlier. It was a continuum back in the day when travel was only by way of the Ten Toe Express.

Also consider that "slavery" is a way of life that helped H. sapiens survive. We originated as small clans competing for hunting grounds and commonly took hostages, helping to increase the gene pool of individual clans. That story is perpetuated by all the grad B western movies where female pioneers were kidnapped by the Indians. The flow of genes would be forward and backward as the clans clashed at their frontiers.
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