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Old 06-01-2017, 12:23 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
There is no data to support that the mummies were from a different genetic population than the general population.
I didn't say there were. I said we don't know, but that there could be a difference. However, another poster said the researchers are reasonably sure that their sample was broad-based, not focused on the elite.

 
Old 06-01-2017, 12:30 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
First, by the New Kingdom mummification had changed from an elite practice to a widespread method of burial in Egypt, so the papers authors are reasonably secure in the belief this was a fairly accurate slice of local ancestry in at least this part of Egypt.
Thank you for taking the time to post all that information! One question, re: the steppe early Indo-Euros who invaded Europe--is it known whether they came all the way from Central Asia (Tarim Basin)? Or were they from a population that had settled in the Pontic Steppe area, while others migrated east?
(Pardon the digression, OP et al. )
 
Old 06-01-2017, 07:39 AM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
I guess you didn't noticed this back in March.

Europe was the birthplace of mankind, not Africa, scientists find

Some excerpts:









Don't worry if you are late to this. I myself wasn't aware of this until 23andme posted a link to an article about this in their Facebook page and that was mid-last week.

https://www.facebook.com/23andMe/
This is false and has been hashed out in the history forum. This hominid is an evolutionary dead end isn't an ancestor of Anatomically modern man.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 07:55 AM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I didn't say there were. I said we don't know, but that there could be a difference. However, another poster said the researchers are reasonably sure that their sample was broad-based, not focused on the elite.
I consider this finding significant.

Quoted from Schuenemann et al "Our genetic time transect suggests genetic continuity between the Pre-Ptolemaic, Ptolemaic and Roman populations of Abusir el-Meleq, indicating that foreign rule impacted the town’s population only to a very limited degree at the genetic level." End Quote
 
Old 06-01-2017, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Thank you for taking the time to post all that information! One question, re: the steppe early Indo-Euros who invaded Europe--is it known whether they came all the way from Central Asia (Tarim Basin)? Or were they from a population that had settled in the Pontic Steppe area, while others migrated east?
(Pardon the digression, OP et al. )
It's looking like the Pontic steppe is the origin of all Indo-European languages, except maybe the extinct Anatolian branch which contained Hittite and later languages. So far there's been no evidence found of an influx of steppe DNA into Anatolia during this time period. It was always the most divergent branch, so it may have ended up in Asia Minor through some other process besides conquering bands of horse-based pastoralists.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 01:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It's looking like the Pontic steppe is the origin of all Indo-European languages, except maybe the extinct Anatolian branch which contained Hittite and later languages. So far there's been no evidence found of an influx of steppe DNA into Anatolia during this time period. It was always the most divergent branch, so it may have ended up in Asia Minor through some other process besides conquering bands of horse-based pastoralists.
I wasn't asking about Anatolia. Some of those Pontic Steppe Indo-Euros migrated east through today's Kazakhstan to the Altai, and from there, some travelled further. My question was: when Indo-Euros invaded Europe, where did that invading migration originate? In Asia, or was it generated by existing communities north of the Black Sea? IOW, did it occur as a result of a group of the Indo-Euros in Asia returning from the East, passing through the Pontic area and continuing into Europe? Or was it more local/regional in nature vs. trans-continental?
 
Old 06-01-2017, 01:51 PM
AFP
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I wasn't asking about Anatolia. Some of those Pontic Steppe Indo-Euros migrated east through today's Kazakhstan to the Altai, and from there, some travelled further. My question was: when Indo-Euros invaded Europe, where did that invading migration originate? In Asia, or was it generated by existing communities north of the Black Sea?
Somewhere in the Pontic-Caspian steppe between the Don and Volga rivers. The Yamnaya were mobile pastoralists.
 
Old 06-01-2017, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,436 posts, read 11,937,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
I wasn't asking about Anatolia. Some of those Pontic Steppe Indo-Euros migrated east through today's Kazakhstan to the Altai, and from there, some travelled further. My question was: when Indo-Euros invaded Europe, where did that invading migration originate? In Asia, or was it generated by existing communities north of the Black Sea? IOW, did it occur as a result of a group of the Indo-Euros in Asia returning from the East, passing through the Pontic area and continuing into Europe? Or was it more local/regional in nature vs. trans-continental?
Basically it was the Pontic-Caspian steppe, though there was a lot of back and forth. It seems like the Proto-Indo-Europeans first migrated westward into Europe, mixed with European hunter-gatherers and farmers a bit, and then later populations leapfrogged eastward. The Andronovo and Sintahsta cultures in particular seems to have come from a mix of PIE with European Corded Ware peoples. They were also much fairer, having blond hair and blue eyes unlike the earlier Yamnaya, who were fairly dark of hair and eye. The most recent study this year cast doubt on their being the ancestors of Indo-Aryans, but they probably were who settled in the Tarim Basin. The Srubna culture, which formed later more in the core of the Pontic steppe, seems to have been where Indo-Iranians came from.
 
Old 06-02-2017, 01:06 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,820 posts, read 70,635,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Basically it was the Pontic-Caspian steppe, though there was a lot of back and forth. It seems like the Proto-Indo-Europeans first migrated westward into Europe, mixed with European hunter-gatherers and farmers a bit, and then later populations leapfrogged eastward. The Andronovo and Sintahsta cultures in particular seems to have come from a mix of PIE with European Corded Ware peoples. They were also much fairer, having blond hair and blue eyes unlike the earlier Yamnaya, who were fairly dark of hair and eye. The most recent study this year cast doubt on their being the ancestors of Indo-Aryans, but they probably were who settled in the Tarim Basin. The Srubna culture, which formed later more in the core of the Pontic steppe, seems to have been where Indo-Iranians came from.
I've been wrestling with the information you gave here. It's a little confusing. The move eastward couldn't have come after the Indo-Euro migration into Europe, because horseback riding was invented in Central Asia (by Indo-Euros, AFAIK), and they were mounted warriors when they entered Europe. Or are we talking about two different sorties into Europe? Do you mean when they mixed with SE European hunter gatherers? Not the full-fledged invasion of "Old Europe" that came later?

Also, the Corded Ware people were the Indo-Euros. Your post reads like you're saying Corded Ware pertained to the pre-Indo-Euro people of Europe. But everything I've read says it's a hallmark of that steppe Indo-Euro culture.

Maybe we should start a new thread. This is off-topic to Egypt.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 06-02-2017 at 01:30 AM..
 
Old 06-02-2017, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Aliso Viejo, Orange County, CA
4,980 posts, read 6,378,539 times
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This is off topic, but it would be interesting to see this forum more reflect the knowledge and views of people who actually live in Africa. I guess there are a few regulars who post here, but City-Data doesn't even capture a fraction of Africa's 170 million Facebook users:

Facebook Has 170 Million African Users, Mostly On Mobile
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tobysha.../#49853abc53dc

Last edited by pacific2; 06-02-2017 at 06:02 AM..
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