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Old 12-05-2017, 05:24 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,664 posts, read 19,411,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
Enslaved Africans came from over 40 different ethnicities, spoke myriad of languages etc. Would you expect over 40 different Asian ethnicities to act as one?

What a silly comment.
I did not blame them or anything, nor expect them to act as one. All I said is that for a long time black Americans did not have one identity or culture.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:48 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,664 posts, read 19,411,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
On this, I'd ask what cultures in the continent of Africa do you even know about lol.

Very little is known about Nok but the little I've read on it has shown that archeologists do not believe it existed in a vacuum. For those who don't know Nok predates Rome by about 500 years.
The usual ones, Nok, old Ghana, Songhai, etc. The earlier ones are not well documented, yet.

While Nok and Rome overlapped in terms of time, they were not at the same level, which might explain why Rome turned into a huge Empire. I think the Romans' and before them the Etruscans' wars were what pushed progress. (Sad, but still...)

The Igbo region might have been more advanced than Nok, though.
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:53 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,664 posts, read 19,411,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
LOL on the bold. I honestly doubt that. If this were the case then whites who went to the continent of Africa would have been heavily oppressed by the native black populations of the countries they went too. As stated, I do believe what my grandmother said was true from an historical perspective. As noted she did admit she had some racist views but she explained that they stemmed from the fact that whites were the ones who went around the world terrorizing people. And I agree that that is true and is a reason why I roll my eyes today about crime statistics and race.

On comparing black Americans to Egypt, there is no comparison and I think you brought that up willy nilly since it wasn't a topic of the conversation you had with me on the forum.

In regards to 1600s black people in America, again you are showing your ignorance about American history, being that in the 1600s when both European and Africans first arrived in this country, race as a sociological concept was not something that had the meaning in society that it does today. That did not occur until around 1700. The reason why I know I have ancestors from the 1600s is because they were "free people of color" since that time period, meaning that they were formerly indentured servants, like white/Europeans who came to the colonies, who received their freedom after their indenture period ended. Indentured servants of all ethnic backgrounds worked together in 17th century American colonies as class was the major factor of society at the time. It wasn't until after Bacon's Rebellion in 1676 that "race" as a social construct began to be created in America due to the fear of the wealthy, ruling classes at the large masses of white, black, native, and "mullato" (mixed race) underclass who outnumbered them. Race was created to fracture the lower class and make the poor whites more aligned with wealthy whites on the basis of white supremacy and black inferiority - which included slavery being codified as something only blacks could be - natives were absolved from slavery as they were slaves in the past as well. I know this because my earliest ancestors, I found records in VA where they were freed as a result of being born of an "Indian woman" in the late 1600s as in the 1700s when this case went before a judge in the colony of Virginia, a person could not be held as a slave if they were the child of a native or white woman. By the 1700s black American culture began to spring into existence with a focus on the dismantling of slavery and social uplift of Africans in America. Both of these things - activism and community service/social uplift are still tenets of black American culture today.
Well, the Africans were inferior in terms of weapons and organization, that's why whites were not oppressed or kicked out by native Africans.

As for the rest, it doesn't matter whether blacks were free or slaves, there was no common African-American identity or culture for a long time.
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Old 12-05-2017, 09:36 AM
 
15,540 posts, read 7,939,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, the Africans were inferior in terms of weapons and organization, that's why whites were not oppressed or kicked out by native Africans.

As for the rest, it doesn't matter whether blacks were free or slaves, there was no common African-American identity or culture for a long time.
Whites were not kicked out of Africa where they arrived because they engaged local communities/tribes in business transactions in regard to supplies and slaves.

All people are subject to greed. Part of the supplies provided to Europeans were weapons and various African tribes joined with Europeans to assist them in the slave trade and procurement of goods and materials in a way to enrich themselves and their own people at the expense of other tribes/people. It is odd to me that many whites and Europeans today cannot grasp the concept that all black people do not share the same experiences, cultures, and histories. There are families in various eastern and western African nations today who are well aware of their own family's involvement in the slave trade and many of them still have a legacy of wealth associated with their ancestor's activities in this regard, same as whites in both Europe and America still have associated wealth with the slave trade.

As I noted in my previous post regarding black American culture, by 1700 there were established black communities and culture started here at that time (including social uplift organizations, businesses, churches, neighborhoods, and even the beginnings of the Underground Railroad, which began in the 1700s). So we have been our own tribe so to speak for over 300 years based on shared history and culture. Again, I study a lot from a genealogical perspective primarily free people of color of early America and nearly all of them were connected in some way. Their movements west and to Canada even to Liberia later were done in conjuction with one another. One of my oldest families in my tree lived in 4 different states in the US and 2 different countries (Canada and Haiti) and had connections/friends/families in all of those locales because of the tight knit nature of free blacks in particular in the US. Free blacks in southern states were primarily driven out because of their association with the black enslaved population. They often intermarried slaves so there has been a very deep cultural history and connection with blacks across free and enslaved groups in the earliest beginnings of this country and the colonies.

You can choose to ignore that but that is the basis of the ignorance I'm speaking of.

On African civilizations if you only know of 5 or 6 of them, you are ignorant about the continent. You cannot compare any civilizations to Rome or "China" or "India" (and I'd ask which area/groups you are speaking of in regards to the Chinese and Asian Indian groups since they were and still are not monolithic and vary in history and culture depending on geography as well) if you don't know about them. Archealogy and study of Western African in particular was overlooked and is limited in scope available to the public because of the idea by whites that blacks were inferior to them and not capable of having any great civilizations so they did not take note of those civilizations because they were busy plundering and raping basically. Them not providing you documentation of African civilizations does not mean that those civilizations that existed prior to or in tandem with Rome and those in Asia didn't exist. It means you don't know about them.

Last edited by residinghere2007; 12-05-2017 at 09:55 AM..
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:01 AM
 
15,540 posts, read 7,939,290 times
Reputation: 8046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Well, the Africans were inferior in terms of weapons and organization, that's why whites were not oppressed or kicked out by native Africans.

As for the rest, it doesn't matter whether blacks were free or slaves, there was no common African-American identity or culture for a long time.
FWIW I can agree with you on the bold. I often believe that Africans and other "colored" people of the world were satisfied with where they lived, their countries, their people and they were content with their lives more than Europeans who were more driven by greed, violence and conquest. I'd rather be inferior in regards to the latter (greed and violence in particular) than superior as both of those are negatives IMO and not necessary to lead a good and decent life. Again, this goes back to what I noted my great grandmother told me about the morality of whites. She, like myself was very interested in real history based on what actually did happen and not fantasy "what ifs" from an historical standpoint. Her conclusions were very sound for her point of view and I fully understood them but I am a person who does believe that people are capable of learning from history and not repeating those same mistakes and especially not in their personal lives or in specific nations/states.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:06 AM
 
15,540 posts, read 7,939,290 times
Reputation: 8046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
But NOK never was at the same level as Rome. They were leading by African standards, but no match for Rome or China or Egypt.
You do not know what level they were on in regards to Nok.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:35 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,664 posts, read 19,411,821 times
Reputation: 8597
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Whites were not kicked out of Africa where they arrived because they engaged local communities/tribes in business transactions in regard to supplies and slaves.

All people are subject to greed. Part of the supplies provided to Europeans were weapons and various African tribes joined with Europeans to assist them in the slave trade and procurement of goods and materials in a way to enrich themselves and their own people at the expense of other tribes/people. It is odd to me that many whites and Europeans today cannot grasp the concept that all black people do not share the same experiences, cultures, and histories. There are families in various eastern and western African nations today who are well aware of their own family's involvement in the slave trade and many of them still have a legacy of wealth associated with their ancestor's activities in this regard, same as whites in both Europe and America still have associated wealth with the slave trade.

As I noted in my previous post regarding black American culture, by 1700 there were established black communities and culture started here at that time (including social uplift organizations, businesses, churches, neighborhoods, and even the beginnings of the Underground Railroad, which began in the 1700s). So we have been our own tribe so to speak for over 300 years based on shared history and culture. Again, I study a lot from a genealogical perspective primarily free people of color of early America and nearly all of them were connected in some way. Their movements west and to Canada even to Liberia later were done in conjuction with one another. One of my oldest families in my tree lived in 4 different states in the US and 2 different countries (Canada and Haiti) and had connections/friends/families in all of those locales because of the tight knit nature of free blacks in particular in the US. Free blacks in southern states were primarily driven out because of their association with the black enslaved population. They often intermarried slaves so there has been a very deep cultural history and connection with blacks across free and enslaved groups in the earliest beginnings of this country and the colonies.

You can choose to ignore that but that is the basis of the ignorance I'm speaking of.

On African civilizations if you only know of 5 or 6 of them, you are ignorant about the continent. You cannot compare any civilizations to Rome or "China" or "India" (and I'd ask which area/groups you are speaking of in regards to the Chinese and Asian Indian groups since they were and still are not monolithic and vary in history and culture depending on geography as well) if you don't know about them. Archealogy and study of Western African in particular was overlooked and is limited in scope available to the public because of the idea by whites that blacks were inferior to them and not capable of having any great civilizations so they did not take note of those civilizations because they were busy plundering and raping basically. Them not providing you documentation of African civilizations does not mean that those civilizations that existed prior to or in tandem with Rome and those in Asia didn't exist. It means you don't know about them.
I don't have as much time as you obviously have. So just a few remarks...

There are not many African civilizations of global interest, you, the self-proclaimed know-it-all, don't know others than the usual ones, either. There are just a handful, feel free to list African civilizations that rivaled ancient India, Persia, China, Egypt, Mesopotamia. You are just hoping there were some...

One thing about great civilizations is that they do not disappear just like that, they evolve and get adopted by neighbors. If people in, say, what is now Nigeria had developed writing, it would have spread and survived.
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Old 12-05-2017, 10:39 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,664 posts, read 19,411,821 times
Reputation: 8597
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
FWIW I can agree with you on the bold. I often believe that Africans and other "colored" people of the world were satisfied with where they lived, their countries, their people and they were content with their lives more than Europeans who were more driven by greed, violence and conquest. I'd rather be inferior in regards to the latter (greed and violence in particular) than superior as both of those are negatives IMO and not necessary to lead a good and decent life. Again, this goes back to what I noted my great grandmother told me about the morality of whites. She, like myself was very interested in real history based on what actually did happen and not fantasy "what ifs" from an historical standpoint. Her conclusions were very sound for her point of view and I fully understood them but I am a person who does believe that people are capable of learning from history and not repeating those same mistakes and especially not in their personal lives or in specific nations/states.
What now, first you say that all people are subject to greed etc. Kind of excusing black Africans from their misdeeds, from enslaving and selling each other...
And now you put it again as if black Africans had been better people. Victims of evil whites because they were oh so peaceful and kind, too nice to withstand whites
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:17 PM
 
Location: ATLANTA
2,149 posts, read 1,447,876 times
Reputation: 1618
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Outside of New York street corners and the weird corners of the internet are there really that many African Americans who go on and on about Egypt? With the availability of affordable genetic testing it should be fairly easy for anyone to trace themselves back to specific areas on their continent of origin. I think there's even an AA version of ancestry.com that helps you do this.

I don't know many Black Americans that go on about Egypt, West Africa or any part of Africa period. Most American blacks know very little or haven't even been to Africa before, same is true for White American's as far as Europe. Not saying that there aren't many White and Black American's that are well traveled and go to many places around the world but when it come down to it, its more about American Culture when it comes to Americans. There are some that want to get caught up in the hype that really doesn't matter or make a real difference when us American's are who we are Americans!

Last edited by oobanks; 12-05-2017 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:26 PM
 
3,561 posts, read 2,545,021 times
Reputation: 6878
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I don't have as much time as you obviously have. So just a few remarks...

There are not many African civilizations of global interest, you, the self-proclaimed know-it-all, don't know others than the usual ones, either. There are just a handful, feel free to list African civilizations that rivaled ancient India, Persia, China, Egypt, Mesopotamia. You are just hoping there were some...

One thing about great civilizations is that they do not disappear just like that, they evolve and get adopted by neighbors. If people in, say, what is now Nigeria had developed writing, it would have spread and survived.
Though they developed late, there is ideographic script like Nsibidi and Adrinka.





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