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Old 04-02-2018, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,830,697 times
Reputation: 8673

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Okay, so your solution is a return to COLONIZATION as the only answer. A world where white people take political and legal control of large swaths of land, and the locals 'deal with it'.
Is that what you think colonization is all about? Well, I guess Singapore and Hong Kong never got the memo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Are you actually white South African? I just can't imagine anyone else even saying that, even Europeans aren't interested in a return to colonization, let alone Americans. But, okay, that's your narrative, you are black American, and you prefer Africa to be politically and legally controlled by European nations.
I just can't imagine a world where Africa has multiple failed states but here we are.

Again, you clearly don't appreciate the magnitude of the situation and that's ok. I imagine you're posting somewhere from the safety of your house in a 1st world western country. Clearly unconcerned with the situation in African countries right now.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Is that what you think colonization is all about? Well, I guess Singapore and Hong Kong never got the memo.

I just can't imagine a world where Africa has multiple failed states but here we are.

Again, you clearly don't appreciate the magnitude of the situation and that's ok. I imagine you're posting somewhere from the safety of your house in a 1st world western country.
You just reflect questions and go on the offensive. Anyway...

Are you pro-apartheid?
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,830,697 times
Reputation: 8673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
You just reflect questions and go on the offensive. Anyway...

Are you pro-apartheid?
Now you're just changing the subject.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Now you're just changing the subject.
Colonization IS the subject. Apartheid has a direct connection to colonization. Colonization IS the structure of giving all of the legal and political power to European people. That IS colonization. Apartheid IS a product of exactly that.

We're more on topic than we've even been.

Are you pro-apartheid?
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:50 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,830,697 times
Reputation: 8673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Colonization IS the subject. Apartheid has a direct connection to colonization. Colonization IS the structure of giving all of the legal and political power to European people. That IS colonization. Apartheid IS a product of exactly that.

We're more on topic than we've even been.
You're reaching. Worse, you're trying to put words in my mouth.

I gave you two examples of successful colonization (Hong Kong and Singapore) yet you continue to ignore it. I gave you another example of successful westernization (Japan) and you skipped it.

Furthermore, I gave you 37 million black Americans who were a direct benefit of West African kings selling their own people for profit to Western countries during colonization but it's clear you don't care.

Quote:
The vast majority of slaves taken out of Africa were sold by African rulers, traders and a military aristocracy who all grew wealthy from the business
Quote:
The slave trade had a profound economic, social, cultural and psychological impact on African societies and peoples. It did more to undermine African development than the colonialism that followed it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlant...in_West_Africa

Last edited by Rocko20; 04-02-2018 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:01 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I gave you two examples of successful colonization (Hong Kong and Singapore) yet you continue to ignore it.
I answered it - two pages ago.

Your response was something about black people and black nations being losers or hopeless or something...and the topic switched to that.

This is how I answered the Hong Kong question the last time you asked:
"Colonialism played itself out in different ways in different places.

Africa and much of South America was more about EXPLOITATION of natural resources. Moving what it offered as quickly as possible through traders and others, with colonial laws that made that possible.

Hong Kong was essentially STOPPED by the massive power of CHINA itself. So the British were forced onto those little islands off the coast, way down at the bottom. Than UK negotiated an arrangement where they could have that land for a century or so. They made HK home, and built it into a massive money-oriented city, all forced into one little spot, while they traded with a huge power that is China. They couldn't so easily just rape China, they were forced to 'deal with' the nation-state of China.

You couldn't have replicated the Hong Kong situation anywhere in Africa."
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,830,697 times
Reputation: 8673
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Africa and much of South America was more about EXPLOITATION of natural resources. Moving what it offered as quickly as possible through traders and others, with colonial laws that made that possible.

"
You're all over the place now.

I'll keep it simple. African Kings helped to enrich themselves by selling Africans, exploiting their own country, and collaborating with western powers during western colonization.

It alarms me that you're not aware of this travesty so I've taken the liberty to inform you.

Quote:
Traditional African rulers whose ancestors collaborated with European and Arab slave traders should follow Britain and the United States by publicly saying sorry, according to human rights organisations.


The Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria has written to tribal chiefs saying: "We cannot continue to blame the white men, as Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless."


The appeal has reopened a sensitive debate over the part some chiefs played in helping to capture their fellow Africans and sell them into bondage as part of the transatlantic slave trade.


The congress argued that the ancestors of the chiefs had helped to raid and kidnap defenceless communities and traded them to Europeans. They should now apologise to "put a final seal to the history of slave trade", it said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...se-slave-trade


I'll trust the Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria over your words any day of the week.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:10 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I gave you another example of successful westernization (Japan) and you skipped it.

Furthermore, I gave you 37 million black Americans who were a direct benefit of West African kings selling their own people for profit to Western countries during colonization but it's clear you don't care.
I did ignore the Japan one, mostly because you have so much misinformation, I didn't want to get sidetracked with it.

For one, they were never colonized. They would be a prime example of how a country can develop WITHOUT colonization. But, that would hurt your argument.

You did frame it as being 'successfully westernized'? You'd have to define what is 'westernized'. They like baseball? They listen to pop music?

In general, Japan is a prime example of a country that was NEVER colonized, and in their own VERY Japanese way, merged their society into a very competitive through technology, legal protectionism (against foreign corporations), etc.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
African Kings helped to enrich themselves by selling Africans, exploiting their own country, and collaborating with western powers during western colonization.
Your point being...this is something that you like? Something that is great about colonization? Is this your argument?

I think that would fit well into my argument that a return to Colonization isn't the right future for Africa.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:16 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,830,697 times
Reputation: 8673
You’ve failed to reach any logic point in any of your arguments and are borderline rambling now.

We’ll agree to disagree. I have to respect that some folks simply don’t like facts, history, and statistics.

The solutions for Africa are out there. But it’s clear that none of your solutions would make much of a difference for Africa’s multiple failed states.

And your refusal to acknowledge that Africa was willingly exploiting themselves as long as there was money involved.
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