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Old 04-09-2018, 06:08 PM
 
4,434 posts, read 4,417,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Ethiopia was already isolated by Islam before Europeans came. In fact the Portuguese helped Ethiopians fight off Muslim invasions in the 16th century.

Convening a religion is not colonization. Ethiopean was surround by African Islamic states. Islam is not a country, and Europeans are not a religion, Any state government can change religion, Colonization is the removal of the government itself.

During colonization Ethiopia and European nations did not have good relations they wanted Ethiopia as colony, Italians and Ethiopia fought several times, And by colonizing all around Ethiopia decrease trade and economic opportunities. Ethiopia basically had no power in it's region.

As mention with Japan, mainland China and Korea wasn't colonize. Japan became dominate state in that group. Ethiopia couldn't because there was no group.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Map is ridiculous there are so many languages within what is supposedly the Kongo empire. When we know hundreds of languages are spoken in this area today. Were there roads that connected these places? Nope. No uniform language either.

There were only a handful of African states that had anything close to a European or Asian nation state and most of those formed after European contact.
There are tons of linguistic maps, etc. But, it's not realistic to have 10,000+ different nations in Africa. Not all nation-states are required to all speak only one language.

Look at Indonesia or India, both have 1000+ languages within their borders.
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:47 AM
 
913 posts, read 550,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Convening a religion is not colonization. Ethiopean was surround by African Islamic states. Islam is not a country, and Europeans are not a religion, Any state government can change religion, Colonization is the removal of the government itself.

During colonization Ethiopia and European nations did not have good relations they wanted Ethiopia as colony, Italians and Ethiopia fought several times, And by colonizing all around Ethiopia decrease trade and economic opportunities. Ethiopia basically had no power in it's region.

As mention with Japan, mainland China and Korea wasn't colonize. Japan became dominate state in that group. Ethiopia couldn't because there was no group.
Ethiopia had contact with European nations for hundreds of years, and relationships were not all bad as Europeans want a Christian ally in a Muslim region. They could've used that contact to better modernize before the late 19th century. Their military did well against the Italians but the rest of society didn't modernize along with it.

China wasn't formally colonized but its coast was carved up into various spheres of influence by Europeans and foreign trade was controlled by European powers. Korea was technically a vassal state of China. Japan was the only major, independent nation in the area. I'm not sure why you think you need a group anyway. Japan didn't have good relationships with its neighbors before the 19th century, just like Ethiopia.
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Old 04-10-2018, 07:54 AM
 
913 posts, read 550,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
There are tons of linguistic maps, etc. But, it's not realistic to have 10,000+ different nations in Africa. Not all nation-states are required to all speak only one language.

Look at Indonesia or India, both have 1000+ languages within their borders.
That is true, but before colonization Indonesia was lots of small island nations, and the Indian subcontinent had not been unified into one country before the British came.

Some part of the world are just too geographically and demographically challenging for a pre-modern state to rule. The Congo is one such area.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Ethiopia had contact with European nations for hundreds of years, and relationships were not all bad as Europeans want a Christian ally in a Muslim region. They could've used that contact to better modernize before the late 19th century. Their military did well against the Italians but the rest of society didn't modernize along with it.
Dozens of African states, had contact with European nations for hundreds of years didn't stop the scramble for Africa. They generally look down on African states including Ethiopia, As Queen Victoria didn't reply back to Tewodros II letter, The Kingdom of Kongo was christian didn't stop them from taking that area over. It didn't matter the religion they want to conquer the area for themselves. As to why European repeated attack Ethiopia.

Quote:
China wasn't formally colonized but its coast was carved up into various spheres of influence by Europeans and foreign trade was controlled by European powers. Korea was technically a vassal state of China. Japan was the only major, independent nation in the area. I'm not sure why you think you need a group anyway. Japan didn't have good relationships with its neighbors before the 19th century, just like Ethiopia.
I said mainland China, And Korea wasn't a European colony.

Southeast Asia was but not East and around the sea of Japan, Japan neighborhoods weren't European colonials. This open Japan to trade and compete with it's neighbor in that small sinosphere region. Japan became the most dominated in this region.

Ethiopia didn't not have this option, there were no greater region Ethiopia could have dominance or influence. And when Eritrea became a colony it didn't even have access to trade by sea or anything. European dominated that region,

For instance Japan invade Chinia and Korea,

Ethiopia neighbors were already invade by The European states.

The point I have repeated made if scramble for Africa didn't happen, African states would had fought each other for dominance in there region. Basically the Stronger African states would had colonize other parts of African them self.

For small African states this would been just as bad, but the difference between Europe colonizing African vs African states colonizing is, at least there would had been native states with an opportunity to expand their powers. Instead of the benefits going to Europe. This is what happen with Japan.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,430,900 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
Ethiopia had contact with European nations for hundreds of years, and relationships were not all bad as Europeans want a Christian ally in a Muslim region. They could've used that contact to better modernize before the late 19th century. Their military did well against the Italians but the rest of society didn't modernize along with it.

China wasn't formally colonized but its coast was carved up into various spheres of influence by Europeans and foreign trade was controlled by European powers. Korea was technically a vassal state of China. Japan was the only major, independent nation in the area. I'm not sure why you think you need a group anyway. Japan didn't have good relationships with its neighbors before the 19th century, just like Ethiopia.
I believe Ethiopia sent its first emissaries to England during King Henry VIII reign. Might have been earlier I forget.
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Old 01-01-2019, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Wherever the are junk homes: Lawrence County Alabama, Huntsville Alabama and Birmingham Alabama
69 posts, read 231,705 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suliniber View Post
OK Sir, I have a lot of respect for you, chiatldal, and all other participants here! PEACE be to us all!
Believing in anything you can't prove existence of and know it's not true, and make a lot of money out of it convincing other people to join must be a religion or cults, like witchcraft controlled by a powerful, honored and supposedly respected or feared leader. The Catholic Pope has it very wee organized, making it the riches cultic group in the world. All I know from the literature called the bible is that Jesus was a True Social Justice leader.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:33 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
20 posts, read 3,895 times
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I know honesty hurts and you can call it racist but it's been proven time and time again that Africans simply can't run a country by themselves. It's really as simple as that. They don't posses determination or the drive and compassion to be successful. I agree with one of the posters before, colonization from Europe or America is the only hope. Africa will never get out of the dump by themselves as they have clearly proven that.
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Old 01-09-2019, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
3,502 posts, read 1,701,498 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaughingSnowman View Post
I know honesty hurts and you can call it racist but it's been proven time and time again that Africans simply can't run a country by themselves. It's really as simple as that. They don't posses determination or the drive and compassion to be successful. I agree with one of the posters before, colonization from Europe or America is the only hope. Africa will never get out of the dump by themselves as they have clearly proven that.
Please compare Africa in 1990 to Africa in 2018. If countries keep maintaining the average 6% Economic Growth that several countries on the African continent have been averaging for a few decades now, literally math proves that these countries will develop. The question isn’t development isnt happening. I literally have a Grandma that is illiterate and every single one of her 30+ children and grandchildren or so are literate half of them make ten times more money even corrected for modern times than she ever made. The Nigerian population under 35 is literally 3 inches taller than the older generation and Nigeria is still generally one of the worst countries economically in West Africa (Outside Sierra Leone or Liberia). When Botswana, The Bahamas, Namibia, Ghana and all the other countries with decent growth rates come out in 30 years as developed as Iran you’ll look laughable. It’s not that change is t happening it’s that Change is taking several generations.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country...dp-growth-rate
Nigeria is literally growing their economy recently at 10%, and is already recovering from the oil drop. Anyone who has been to Lagos in 1990 and 2018 sees obvious development their has also been growth in HDI significantly as well, again it’s just not as fast as South Korea or Taiwan or Singapore which are unified countries culturally, even though their either religiously diverse or ethnically diverse, not to mention those countries are culturally and physically small as in their isn’t a lot of variation over the country and some of those countries are downright small in where the majority of the population lives thus easier to develop and rule.
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,414 posts, read 1,673,386 times
Reputation: 8033
You can't assume that a current growth rare will continue unabated until Botswana is as rich as France. The present growth may be based on low hanging fruit, and destined to hit a wall which may or may not be manifest as we speak.


Regarding Ethiopia, I don't think it was ever colonized, except for a few Italian restaurant that were built to serve an Italian community of petty bureaucrats who left behind a few red-haired Ethiopian babies. Madagascar wasn't even touched until, I think, about 1890, but it's 20th century was pretty much the same as anyone else's.
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