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Old 04-21-2019, 04:09 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 411,478 times
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I apologize for being very late to the party but I spotted this video about what if Africa was never colonized?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnN0RurtJWc

Edit: Another video showed how geography hurted Africa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AQZTW1ua3g
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Old 04-22-2019, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Boston (city limits)
34 posts, read 10,176 times
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I would say that if Africa was never colonized, it would be a continent of prosperous countries full of rich traditions. I am from the Spanish Caribbean. We are a mix of native indians, Africans and Spaniards. However, we say in the Caribbean that our flavor comes from the African blood and we feel proud of that. In terms of religion, it's Yoruban traditions mixed with Catholicism like "Santería". We mix French Spiritism with African traditions. In terms of music, we have very specific genres like "bomba" and "plena" from Puerto Rico. My point is that if we in the Caribbean have such a rich culture thanks to Africans, I imagine how glorious African would have been without colonization.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:32 PM
 
1,686 posts, read 411,478 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diegomar2007 View Post
I would say that if Africa was never colonized, it would be a continent of prosperous countries full of rich traditions. I am from the Spanish Caribbean. We are a mix of native indians, Africans and Spaniards. However, we say in the Caribbean that our flavor comes from the African blood and we feel proud of that. In terms of religion, it's Yoruban traditions mixed with Catholicism like "Santería". We mix French Spiritism with African traditions. In terms of music, we have very specific genres like "bomba" and "plena" from Puerto Rico. My point is that if we in the Caribbean have such a rich culture thanks to Africans, I imagine how glorious African would have been without colonization.
I wonder if the expansion of the Ottoman Empire in Northern Africa from Egypt to Algeria is classified as colonization? I spotted a old blog post in French about the Berbers people of North Africa. https://ainkerme.blogspot.com/2014/0...vre-lugan.html There's an approximate translation done by Google translator.
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Old 06-01-2019, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,827,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras View Post
If Africa were made of thousand or more sovereign states, then their people wouldn't be mistreated on such a large scale as they are currently. This goes on in every natural resource mining industry in Africa.
What do you mean by this? Africa has 54 countries. It’s not the number of countries, it’s the fact they were drawn and divided so randomly and arbitrarily by Europeans. Africa would’ve been far better off with a smaller number of countries or sovereign states.

When you randomly divide a continent like a jigsaw puzzle, you’re going to have many problems and that’s what the Scramble for Africa did.

If Russia or China invaded America and started carving out random countries, territories, annexations, etc America would be messed up too.
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Old 06-02-2019, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Around the UK!
156 posts, read 110,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Africa would’ve been far better off with a smaller number of countries or sovereign states.

When you randomly divide a continent like a jigsaw puzzle, you’re going to have many problems and that’s what the Scramble for Africa did.
Why would t have been better with fewer countries? One of the problems is that the partitioning was it was so random. Grouping communities who had traditionally been enemies into one country.

In South Africa, there is the illogical situation of one country with 13 different languages.

Smaller states could have had cooperation agreements with issues like travel or customs unions and would be more manageable with focussed interests.

Large sovereign states promote centralised power and with it comes the big scale corruption and abuse of power which we see around the world.
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Old 06-02-2019, 06:22 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 6,833,987 times
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I've entered this party late. First and foremost Ethiopia was never colonized (parts occupied is much different than being colonized). Muslims and christians have lived amongst each other in peace since the inception of these religions in Ethiopia.

Secondly, I wish the question was a bit flipped. What would Europe or the Americas look like without colonization/Africans? Let us not forget that Africans built countries from around the world and the African resources used to make other countries powerful. Hopefully, the Continent has learned to be strong, unite, enhance its military, and understand just how important the land and its people are. Colonization should have also taught us to get rid of borders which is now finally happening.

Human civilizations, language, and the adoption of religion was started in Africa so not sure why people think colonization was good for any African country or that the African needs its colonizer to succeed? Once Africans start to use their own engineers and take advantage of it own resources (mainly intellectual properties) Africa would be like no other nation.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,020 posts, read 308,954 times
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Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
I've entered this party late. First and foremost Ethiopia was never colonized (parts occupied is much different than being colonized). Muslims and christians have lived amongst each other in peace since the inception of these religions in Ethiopia.
As of 2018, Ethiopia is the 29th most dangerous place in the world to be a Christian. https://www.christianitytoday.com/ne...atch-list.html
Dozens and dozens of churches have been burned, priests murdered, and hundreds of thousands displaced by muslim violence. https://www.persecutionblog.com/2006...christian.html

In Ethiopia, Muslims burn 69 churches

https://morningstarnews.org/2019/03/...s-in-ethiopia/

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
Secondly, I wish the question was a bit flipped. What would Europe or the Americas look like without colonization/Africans? Let us not forget that Africans built countries from around the world and the African resources used to make other countries powerful. Hopefully, the Continent has learned to be strong, unite, enhance its military, and understand just how important the land and its people are. Colonization should have also taught us to get rid of borders which is now finally happening.
I won't comment on other countries, but the United States would be largely the same as it is now. It seems that you are discounting the contributions made by other races in building this nation, in the north and especially so in the west.
Getting rid of borders would be national suicide, and won't be happening any time soon, if ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
Human civilizations, language, and the adoption of religion was started in Africa so not sure why people think colonization was good for any African country or that the African needs its colonizer to succeed? Once Africans start to use their own engineers and take advantage of it own resources (mainly intellectual properties) Africa would be like no other nation.
This would have been a great idea, however Africa is currently being recolonized, this time by the Chinese. https://www.forbes.com/sites/panosmo.../#5c6c8f30758b
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Old 06-02-2019, 11:33 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 6,833,987 times
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Dozerbear,

When you grab articles it would be helpful if you read them. Have you ever been to Ethiopia, lived there, or know any Ethiopians?

The article explains that a mob and a rumor was started that Christians had attacked mosques which was found to be untrue. These stories were told by extremist. Out of the 90M people of Ethiopia 40% are muslim with the majority being Christian. For the most part the religions are respected without issue. When muslims in the USA have shot up places or Christians have in the USA have attacked Jews and muslims some how they don't make the same lists you post about. People will always have clashes but in Ethiopia religious strife is the exception and not the rule (this is documented throughout the ages).

The United States wouldn't be the same without free labor/the African slave. It wouldn't benefit from inventions, the inventions, sports like the NBA, NFL, baseball, track and field, etc, win any Olympics nor have any entertainment that it benefits from today without the African! I'm not ignoring contributions by other groups as this section of the forum isn't really about them. But other groups most likely were paid where slaves well they were free labor. Borders not created by Africans makes zero sense!

Africa isn't being colonized by the Chinese (I've posed this question before), China is a great partner of the African on one hand . and on the other hand leadership has to change in Africa for real growth. It isn't the Chinese fault that the leadership in the African countries allow some of what is going on. But same could be said about the USA. Who owns most of the uSA, what are the terms of business the USA has with China, what is going on with the USA farming and trade? Are you benefiting from the stock market right now? Would you call China a colonizer or opportunist. The politicians don't work for the people but for themselves whether it be in Africa or the USA. When you spend time in Africa maybe the conversation would be different. The USA owes China a lot of money and without China the USA is in trouble!!!

Last edited by bayarea-girl; 06-02-2019 at 11:54 PM.. Reason: forget to make additional points
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Old 06-03-2019, 03:21 PM
 
910 posts, read 549,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
I've entered this party late. First and foremost Ethiopia was never colonized (parts occupied is much different than being colonized). Muslims and christians have lived amongst each other in peace since the inception of these religions in Ethiopia.

Secondly, I wish the question was a bit flipped. What would Europe or the Americas look like without colonization/Africans? Let us not forget that Africans built countries from around the world and the African resources used to make other countries powerful. Hopefully, the Continent has learned to be strong, unite, enhance its military, and understand just how important the land and its people are. Colonization should have also taught us to get rid of borders which is now finally happening.

Human civilizations, language, and the adoption of religion was started in Africa so not sure why people think colonization was good for any African country or that the African needs its colonizer to succeed? Once Africans start to use their own engineers and take advantage of it own resources (mainly intellectual properties) Africa would be like no other nation.
That is incorrect. Ethiopians have fought wars with Muslim sultanates in the area for centuries. At one point they sought help from the Portuguese to fight off a Muslim incursion. People used to align themselves more by religion more than by race. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssi...%80%93Adal_war

On your second point remember that central and eastern European nations did not participate in the Atlantic slave trade nor derive significant benefit from it. Austria, Germany, Italy and Russia would be just as powerful without Africa.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:47 PM
 
3,117 posts, read 6,833,987 times
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Are you Ethiopian, have you been to Ethiopia? I'm not sure you can give me a history lesson. Please don't use wikipedia as reference source to make a point (I don't mean to be rude, its just not a good source). This post isn't about Ethiopia. But to clarify Ethiopian people have fought wars just like anyone else but it is public knowledge that Ethiopian muslims and christians have lived amongst each other mainly in peace since the times the religions have formed that simply is a fact. Ethiopians have had wars for all sorts of reason usually having to do with territorial claims which the wikipedia writing you googled references it does not say that due to islamic and christian conflicts/beliefs that these people fought. If tensions were significant muslims or christians would have fled the country or visa versa. Remember that there are 90+M people in Ethiopia. No one in Ethiopia aligns themselves with race they do align themselves with their respective tribes (not sure what your point is here).

To your second response, I would have to disagree with you as well we'd have to go deep with history lessons. Don't just think transatlantic slavery as black slavery was happening before then. Africans have been Europe's and the America's greatest import. I'm not sure why this is debated?

Although I don't need to google look up how Ethiopian muslims and christians have been living in peace, here is a reference point for you http://www.osservatoreromano.va/en/n...s-living-peace, http://www.infoans.org/en/sections/i...ns-and-muslims, others can google if you aren't familiar as this fact has widely been covered.

Anyways, the lesson for Africa is colonization. Don't let it happen again, continue to build, don't give away resources. Africa is developing/evolving and doesn't need outside intervention. It will continue to be a major resource to the rest of the world.

Last edited by bayarea-girl; 06-03-2019 at 05:11 PM.. Reason: forgot to post some additional links
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