U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-10-2019, 06:17 PM
 
3,118 posts, read 6,837,555 times
Reputation: 1549

Advertisements

jbgusa, yes Arabs sold slaves very true and they often don't get discussed and I don't mean to leave them out of the discussion as I mentioned before. Africans also built up their countries too! They were some of the cruelest people to Africans and are also still enslaving Africans to this day! They enslaved all kinds of people, castrated men, they definitely affected the language, religion, and division that exist today in some parts of Africa. Why Africans willingly go to Arab countries right now to continue barbaric slavery practices is beyond me especially since they are tortured beheaded and raped is beyond me. I'm not sure why they aren't discussed more?

Colonization worked for the US, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia I agree with you! My point is it didn't work for Africa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-11-2019, 05:26 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,920 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
jbgusa, yes Arabs sold slaves very true and they often don't get discussed and I don't mean to leave them out of the discussion as I mentioned before. Africans also built up their countries too! They were some of the cruelest people to Africans and are also still enslaving Africans to this day! They enslaved all kinds of people, castrated men, they definitely affected the language, religion, and division that exist today in some parts of Africa. Why Africans willingly go to Arab countries right now to continue barbaric slavery practices is beyond me especially since they are tortured beheaded and raped is beyond me. I'm not sure why they aren't discussed more?
My own view is that the reason the Arab depredations are not discussed more is something I will loosely call "white guilt." Or more exactly the "Judeo-Christian ethic." Most other cultures, and I am sure there are exceptions, have no compunctions about using force to defeat and extinguish groups that are weaker militarily. "Might makes right" is the order of the day. What are now "Western countries" adopted that philosophy for a long time. Think the subjugation of the Native Americans,the Australian aboriginals or the New Zealand Maoris. Military figures that participated in these conquests (though disease and alcohol played a role in weakening the natives) are feted as heroes. Now the West is ashamed of this. There is no similar shame for, say, the Rape of Nanking, the brutal conquest of the Philippines by the Japanese military, China's conquest of Tibet, or for that matter the numerous tribal wars in Africa that, to this day, rage unchecked by humanitarian consideration. Arab brutality in Africa and their own "ummah" countries is immune from criticism. As are terror attacks such as 911 and blowing up crowded buses in Israel. The Geneva Convention is a one-way street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
Colonization worked for the US, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia I agree with you! My point is it didn't work for Africa.
Africa is physically on the same continent as Europe and Asia. Diseases killed 95% of Native Americans with no assistance by the military. The Western countries had no such advance "shock troops" in Africa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 08:07 AM
 
914 posts, read 551,239 times
Reputation: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
jbgusa, yes Arabs sold slaves very true and they often don't get discussed and I don't mean to leave them out of the discussion as I mentioned before. Africans also built up their countries too! They were some of the cruelest people to Africans and are also still enslaving Africans to this day! They enslaved all kinds of people, castrated men, they definitely affected the language, religion, and division that exist today in some parts of Africa. Why Africans willingly go to Arab countries right now to continue barbaric slavery practices is beyond me especially since they are tortured beheaded and raped is beyond me. I'm not sure why they aren't discussed more?

Colonization worked for the US, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia I agree with you! My point is it didn't work for Africa.
It surely didn't work for the indigenous people in these places. Even their material well being aren't arguably better had the white men not come along. In the US some of the Indian Reservations are among the most impoverished and dysfunctional areas in the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 08:17 AM
 
914 posts, read 551,239 times
Reputation: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
My own view is that the reason the Arab depredations are not discussed more is something I will loosely call "white guilt." Or more exactly the "Judeo-Christian ethic." Most other cultures, and I am sure there are exceptions, have no compunctions about using force to defeat and extinguish groups that are weaker militarily. "Might makes right" is the order of the day. What are now "Western countries" adopted that philosophy for a long time. Think the subjugation of the Native Americans,the Australian aboriginals or the New Zealand Maoris. Military figures that participated in these conquests (though disease and alcohol played a role in weakening the natives) are feted as heroes. Now the West is ashamed of this. There is no similar shame for, say, the Rape of Nanking, the brutal conquest of the Philippines by the Japanese military, China's conquest of Tibet, or for that matter the numerous tribal wars in Africa that, to this day, rage unchecked by humanitarian consideration. Arab brutality in Africa and their own "ummah" countries is immune from criticism. As are terror attacks such as 911 and blowing up crowded buses in Israel. The Geneva Convention is a one-way street.
Africa is physically on the same continent as Europe and Asia. Diseases killed 95% of Native Americans with no assistance by the military. The Western countries had no such advance "shock troops" in Africa.
That is just ridiculous. The Asians themselves for example continue to rage about Japanese atrocities for example constantly. Lots of books have been written about Japanese prison camps in WWII in the West. The Rwandan Genocide is well known and widely condemned throughout the world. If you want to say that many Western Liberals are hesitant to talk about these too much then yeah there is some reluctance, but why should they harp on and on about other people's sins when they can address their own?

If you want to talk about one way street, read about what the British did to Benin City, Kumasi or Beijing in the 19th Century. They would never have conducted themselves in a similar manner in an European capital.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 10:37 AM
 
1,110 posts, read 595,632 times
Reputation: 3940
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Why does Ethiopia need to invade other countries for a port to the sea? You never heard of friendly negotiations?

If Djibouti or Eritrea protested to the US, the EU, or the UN, things would very bad for Ethiopia.

The Ethiopian government is smart and knows that. Likewise Djibouti is smart and knows that their economy is based on being a port for Ethiopia.

China is colonizing Africa and in many ways has already effectively done so. No leader in Africa says "No" to China, but China is prepared to be mutually beneficial, or even generous.


But it will be Chinese engineers and workers who will maintain the infrastructure, the roads, ports, and rails. China knows exactly what Africans did to the infrastructure that Europeans left behind: they let it sit and rot, and China is not going to allow that. They will garrison soldiers and police if they feel it's necessary to keep their investments intact, but we're about a generation away from that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 12:29 PM
 
24,218 posts, read 17,610,929 times
Reputation: 9150
Quote:
Originally Posted by nedergras View Post
Africa has thousands of different ethnic groups. If it were never colonized, it would be a continent of a thousand or more different nations.
You do realize they had wars with each other and conquered each other, and the king of this nation could marry the queen of that nation.

There's no way it would have had a thousand or more nations. There were African Empires such as Ghana, Mali, and Songhai that were pretty big.

Plus the Muslims conquered huge parts of Africa BEFORE European colonialism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 12:31 PM
 
24,218 posts, read 17,610,929 times
Reputation: 9150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Arab and Muslim traders sold the slaves to the Europeans. You do make a good point on the borders though; rulers that were able to seize power or get elected under "one man, one vote, one time" were able to use international aid and arms purchases to oppress "enemy tribes" within their borders.

Colonization worked just fine for the U.S., Canada, New Zealand and Australia.
It did not work well for the US. Due to the legacy of slavery, the US has much higher rates of poverty and crime than other developed nations, as the US has not been able to move beyond the legacy of slavery. Look again at the current US politics and see the chaos in them as a part of that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 12:42 PM
 
24,218 posts, read 17,610,929 times
Reputation: 9150
Quote:
Originally Posted by InchingWest View Post
China is colonizing Africa and in many ways has already effectively done so. No leader in Africa says "No" to China, but China is prepared to be mutually beneficial, or even generous.


But it will be Chinese engineers and workers who will maintain the infrastructure, the roads, ports, and rails. China knows exactly what Africans did to the infrastructure that Europeans left behind: they let it sit and rot, and China is not going to allow that. They will garrison soldiers and police if they feel it's necessary to keep their investments intact, but we're about a generation away from that.
Hahahaha.

All this is completely overblown. European and American interests in Africa have not gone anywhere at all. If the Chinese are dumb enough to maintain the infrastructure long term, fine. Meanwhile African nations will simply sell to the highest bidder in all cases.

And not all the infrastructure is built by the Chinese, the biggest wireless company in Africa is Orange, a French company.

Trump's tariffs alone show that the Chinese cannot even confront the US, much less the entire West and no they don't really have the resources to send soldiers to Africa.

And yes, neither the US nor Europe would allow the Chinese to send soldiers ANYWHERE on the planet.

European nations also do much, if not most of the drilling for oil in Africa and most of the mining, plus tropical foods grown in these nations are exported to China.

Name a successful war the Chinese have had with a Western nation. For that matter the Chinese were defeated by the Russians, and ridiculously by the Japanese (a tiny little nation). The Chinese were never able to takeover and absorb Vietnam, Korea, etc.

If you cannot even take over small weaker, nations, you surely cannot set up an overseas empire. Historically the Chinese go through completely collapse of regime. The current regime has only been in power since 1949. It could collapse soon for all we know.

You believe in the yellow scare and read too much news, which only superficially shows what is going on. Articles.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 12:56 PM
 
3,118 posts, read 6,837,555 times
Reputation: 1549
Jbgusa, I think the Arab colonialism isn't discussed for several reasons. One being in the US history for example, I believe there are key points they focus on in school when teaching history as it relates to the founding of the country and the focus is British Independence and the Civil War. In other countries history is widely researched and taught. In African countries it is a bit of complex history mainly because some African empires stretched beyond Africa, some arabs are really considered brothers/cousins, the religious elements, and in some cases business relations are a factor.

NyWriterdude, agree with you on all the things you posted. On the matter of colonization working for the US for example it worked for the US because they got free labor out of the deal and a nation built. Even the chaos helps keep people in their place (not progressing), the USA was not intended for black people or its indigenous people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-11-2019, 01:18 PM
 
Location: New York Area
15,920 posts, read 6,267,579 times
Reputation: 12375
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
Jbgusa, I think the Arab colonialism isn't discussed for several reasons. One being in the US history for example, I believe there are key points they focus on in school when teaching history as it relates to the founding of the country and the focus is British Independence and the Civil War. In other countries history is widely researched and taught. In African countries it is a bit of complex history mainly because some African empires stretched beyond Africa, some arabs are really considered brothers/cousins, the religious elements, and in some cases business relations are a factor.
Well there was Jefferson's war against the Barbary Coast Pirates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
It did not work well for the US. Due to the legacy of slavery, the US has much higher rates of poverty and crime than other developed nations, as the US has not been able to move beyond the legacy of slavery. Look again at the current US politics and see the chaos in them as a part of that.
Do you have some place you'd rather live?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Africa
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top