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Old 06-13-2019, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,514 posts, read 7,329,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saskia Calico View Post
What do I think of it?

I think it is grammatically incorrect. It should read "What if African had never been colonized?" The way it is worded it sounds like what if Africa were never colonized, in the modern age, in an ongoing process of colonization?

As to the question, "What if Africa had never been colonized?" I imagine it would still be "the dark continent" to much of the rest of the world. Not that that could be, humans being as they are; you would have to also ask, "What if ships and sailing had never been invented?" "What if humans had never had any wanderlust/drive to conquer and colonize?" What if they had never developed the skills to build boats and the desire to work their ears off rowing them across an ocean just because it was there?

If Africa had never been colonized, I imagine Africans would have gone on making war against each other, conquering each other, etc., trading with each other. Would they have built boats and gone out exploring and rowing across oceans to see what was out there? Do any African peoples have a history of that sort of thing? Would they have migrated as some of the Pacific islanders did, and, as some say, the American Indians did? Or would they, like Australia's original people, have stayed on their continent doing their own thing? Out of a mindset of contentment? Or a mindset of no curiosity to look beyond their shores?
I'd say yes, at least for the most advanced African civilizations. You should read up on the Mali empire. It was said that the king prior to Mansa Musa's(who himself is argued to be the richest person in history) reign, traveled across the sea and never came back. It's unknown to this day whether he and many of his subordinates made it to the other side. Also, China back in the late 14th and early 15th century were making contact and trading with East Africans via ships.
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Old 06-18-2019, 01:26 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,897 posts, read 5,289,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
the piece starts about 500 years too late. The fate of Africa was changed with the arrival of the Portuguese. From there the mad rush was on for quick wealth outside of Europe. The next leap was the discovery of the Americans. From there, Africa was on the radar for mass exploitation.

What about pre 1400? I think the nature of land crossings made the slave trade one of trade and negotiation. Had Arab traders had access to the same tech, a more systematic exploitation would have started earlier.

By the early 1500s, the tech gap was too great and Africa stood no chance. It was only a matter of time.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:54 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,025 posts, read 6,313,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
the piece starts about 500 years too late. The fate of Africa was changed with the arrival of the Portuguese. From there the mad rush was on for quick wealth outside of Europe. The next leap was the discovery of the Americans. From there, Africa was on the radar for mass exploitation.

What about pre 1400? I think the nature of land crossings made the slave trade one of trade and negotiation. Had Arab traders had access to the same tech, a more systematic exploitation would have started earlier.

By the early 1500s, the tech gap was too great and Africa stood no chance. It was only a matter of time.
Those facts will never be taught in school; one learns only about European atrocities and racism.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:07 AM
 
919 posts, read 556,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Those facts will never be taught in school; one learns only about European atrocities and racism.
There's no need for your conspiracy theory here.
Why should American kids learn about the Arab Slave Trade? It had basically no impact on this country's history. At the college level the Arab slave trade is well known. Anyone who's read anything about Livingstone or Stanley would learn about the Arab slave trade.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:27 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Originally Posted by mkwensky View Post
There's no need for your conspiracy theory here.
Why should American kids learn about the Arab Slave Trade? It had basically no impact on this country's history. At the college level the Arab slave trade is well known. Anyone who's read anything about Livingstone or Stanley would learn about the Arab slave trade.
I disagree. It had all the impact in the world on the American and European slave trade. The slavers didn't wander into the rain forests near the shores of Nigeria, Ghana, Angola et. al. and grab people and toss them onto ships. They bought the slaves from Arab slave traders. Further, the Arab "white slavery" practices further north triggered the Barbary Coast war.
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Old 06-18-2019, 08:36 AM
 
609 posts, read 106,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Those facts will never be taught in school; one learns only about European atrocities and racism.
Arabs do consider themselves genetically closer to Europeans than to Africans, don't they? Why get all in tangle over it? What difference does anything make to a black African since Africa will always suffer internally because of itself, plus, the whole point of Africa's existence for non black Africans is resources and bragging rights?
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:00 AM
 
919 posts, read 556,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I disagree. It had all the impact in the world on the American and European slave trade. The slavers didn't wander into the rain forests near the shores of Nigeria, Ghana, Angola et. al. and grab people and toss them onto ships. They bought the slaves from Arab slave traders. Further, the Arab "white slavery" practices further north triggered the Barbary Coast war.
The 'Arab traders' operate in Eastern Africa and weren't the main supplier for European buyers. They mostly sold to the Gulf States, North Africa and parts of the Middle East.
The Europeans got their slaves in Western Africa and most of their suppliers were native African kingdoms like Kongo and Dahomey. I don't know of any high school book that say white people went into African villages to kidnap Africans and bring them to the ships.
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Old 06-18-2019, 09:09 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,025 posts, read 6,313,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aileesic View Post
Arabs do consider themselves genetically closer to Europeans than to Africans, don't they? Why get all in tangle over it? What difference does anything make to a black African since Africa will always suffer internally because of itself, plus, the whole point of Africa's existence for non black Africans is resources and bragging rights?
Someone or some group can consider themselves anything they want. The Arabs are likely quite closely related to blacks since Arabia was the first stop on the human migration chain after Africa. See Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors by Nicholas J. Wade.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:07 PM
 
609 posts, read 106,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Someone or some group can consider themselves anything they want. The Arabs are likely quite closely related to blacks since Arabia was the first stop on the human migration chain after Africa. See Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors by Nicholas J. Wade.



Yet this information does not change the fact that everyone is now and has always been in Africa for the resources and black Africans can't do anything about it. So no matter how much history and ancestral evidence is presented, the outcome remains the same, always.
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Old 06-18-2019, 02:34 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,025 posts, read 6,313,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aileesic View Post
Yet this information does not change the fact that everyone is now and has always been in Africa for the resources and black Africans can't do anything about it. So no matter how much history and ancestral evidence is presented, the outcome remains the same, always.
That is an example of the soft bigotry of low expectations. The African governments could adopt free-market policies not unlike those of Singapore, Taiwan or South Korea and thrive. The world does not have to prop up failed socialist systems.
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