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Old 11-18-2017, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
If the army is trying to install their guy, what are the chances of elections putting Tsvangirai into office? I mean, even if he won by a landslide.....



I think a more realistic outcome would be a power-sharing interim government. It will be very interesting to see how the people respond in the next few days. The marches today are indicative of people's mood, and they are unlikely to allow a Mugabe v 2.0 again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles View Post
There will be hope once commercial farms are given back to their rightful owners. If they do something that bold it would be a good signal they're serious about cleaning up Bob's mess.



And who exactly are the rightful owners? The violent expulsion of farmers, their families, and the farm workers has been horrific, and the farms being passed on to Mugabe's cronies is highly immoral.


The Southern Rhodesian Land Apportionment Act of 1930 determined that choice land be for white farmers only, and anyone not white was unceremoniously evicted. Farmers then bought the land from the then government, so please explain how the rightful owners should be determined?
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Old 11-19-2017, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,522 posts, read 9,402,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post


I think a more realistic outcome would be a power-sharing interim government. It will be very interesting to see how the people respond in the next few days. The marches today are indicative of people's mood, and they are unlikely to allow a Mugabe v 2.0 again.




And who exactly are the rightful owners? The violent expulsion of farmers, their families, and the farm workers has been horrific, and the farms being passed on to Mugabe's cronies is highly immoral.


The Southern Rhodesian Land Apportionment Act of 1930 determined that choice land be for white farmers only, and anyone not white was unceremoniously evicted. Farmers then bought the land from the then government, so please explain how the rightful owners should be determined?
I think the white farmers who left Zimbabwe have moved on and have no desire to return.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
I think the white farmers who left Zimbabwe have moved on and have no desire to return.

I think you are right in some cases, but definitely not all. The problem as the moment is the corruption. Farms that are not supposed to be part of the distribution program and theoretically off limits are targeted frequently, that needs to be addressed. The bigger issue is the underproduction of food, that needs to be remedied quickly.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:16 AM
 
1,682 posts, read 410,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I think you are right in some cases, but definitely not all. The problem as the moment is the corruption. Farms that are not supposed to be part of the distribution program and theoretically off limits are targeted frequently, that needs to be addressed. The bigger issue is the underproduction of food, that needs to be remedied quickly.
If the corruption in Zimbabwe is more deeper then we thought, it could be years to fix things I'm afraid.
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Old 11-19-2017, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,619 posts, read 8,525,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
I think you are right in some cases, but definitely not all. The problem as the moment is the corruption. Farms that are not supposed to be part of the distribution program and theoretically off limits are targeted frequently, that needs to be addressed. The bigger issue is the underproduction of food, that needs to be remedied quickly.
Curious as to the causes of this in your opinion? Corruption? Lack of technology/knowledge?
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Old 11-19-2017, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
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Originally Posted by Hrw-500 View Post
If the corruption in Zimbabwe is more deeper then we thought, it could be years to fix things I'm afraid.

Sadly I think you may be right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
Curious as to the causes of this in your opinion? Corruption? Lack of technology/knowledge?

There's no simple answer to this. Obviously the land redistribution was a disaster on many levels, but the emotion behind it is understandable. Systemic Apartheid not only destroys communities, but it creates generations of (understandably) angry people. Some are placated by change, some look for revenge, it's human nature. The corruption is hard to understand when so many people are starving. It is so vry complicated.
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Old 11-21-2017, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
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Guess we'll see what happens...
KEYC - Zimbabwe Erupts With Mugabe's Resignation
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:22 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Zimbabwe is going nowhere as long as Mugabe lives. Once he dies and his family/kin is successfully torn away from power, only then will a silver lining appear in the Zimbabwean horizon.
My goodness... so soon after I made that post Mugabe makes me look bad. lol

I'm glad he decided to call it quits and things appear to be smoothing into a new era. Then again, it hasn't been 24 hours yet since the abrupt change took place. Lets wait and see what happens.

I'm so happy for Zimbabwe and its people.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:18 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,511 posts, read 8,753,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Blue Sky View Post
Your quite right, Mnangagwa would be nothing other than a step sideways. As TheArchitect said in post #2 this would seem to be a consolidation of power by the military rather than a sweeping aside of the old guard with the intent to install a full democracy.

Tsvangirai returning is definitely a positive but whether his arrival will be enough for him and his supporters to apply any influence on the proceedings of the next few weeks we'll have to wait and see. As a native, it would be good to the country rise to what it could/should be rather than continue in the sorry state that it currently is.
Tsvangirai looks very sick. Sad.

Turning around Zimbabwe can't be done without massive investments/loans by multi- and bi-lateral donors and foreign investors. For that to happen, the Zanu-PF will have to re-invent itself as the party of democracy and reconstruction in words and, more importantly, through action. This will be an enormous feat, to say the least. The infrastructure, the management capacity and the human capacity, in general, in all sectors are in shambles. The "best and brightest" are long gone.

How will this be done? Tell me.
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Old 11-26-2017, 05:27 PM
Status: "Then everything change forever..." (set 12 days ago)
 
5,168 posts, read 8,019,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
Tsvangirai looks very sick. Sad.

Turning around Zimbabwe can't be done without massive investments/loans by multi- and bi-lateral donors and foreign investors. For that to happen, the Zanu-PF will have to re-invent itself as the party of democracy and reconstruction in words and, more importantly, through action. This will be an enormous feat, to say the least. The infrastructure, the management capacity and the human capacity, in general, in all sectors are in shambles. The "best and brightest" are long gone.

How will this be done? Tell me.
Mugabe's regime tried to bring back the white farmers it originally kicked out of the country. For better or worse, Zimbabwe's economy has always been heavily dependent on the agricultural sector and those white farmers were the main producers. Once they were kicked out basically overnight, the entire agricultural sector went down the drains taking the rest of Zimbabwe's economy along.

Neighboring countries began to court Zimbabwe's white farmers and Zambia, which is north of Zimbabwe, attracted enough of them that right now Zambia enjoys the 'title' that once was enjoyed by Zimbabwe, in short it became the breadbasket of Africa.

In order for Zimbabwe to get back on its economic feet, it needs its agricultural sector to get back on its own feet and remain strong. The people with the know-how are precisely Zimbabwe's white farmers that now are spread through out Africa making other countries more prosperous, a prosperity that should had been Zimbabwe's to begin with.

Zimbabwe can also try to develop a new group of highly effective farmers of native origin or try to attract high producing non-Zimbabwean farmers from other countries, but that will take years before sizeable results are possible.

The quickest way to turn things around are those white Zimbabwean farmers in nearby countries. The main reasons for this are: 1. the white Zimbabwean farmers know Zimbabwean land and climate better than any foreign farmer can know; 2. many white Zimbabwean farmers are 'home sick' and wish to return to their country but fear Mugabe and that's what keeps them away; 3. they know the Zimbabwean culture and way of life better than any foreigner; and 4. add to that the know-how of how to take large swath of land and make them agriculturally productive.

No other group of people in the world can truly make Zimbabwe's economy turn around quicker than those white Zimbabwean farmers.

Most of the white Zimbabwean farmers rejected Mugabe's plead for them to return 'home,' mostly because the trust element was shattered during the violent expulsions imposed by Mugabe himself. At the time of the expulsions, Mugabe thought farming was something simple enough that any of his military cronies can easily replicate; which is why he ordered the white farms to be confiscated, their owners either killed or expelled, and the farms given to his military and political buddies. Once he saw the disastrous results, then Mugabe invited the white Zimbabwean farmers back to Zimbabwe.

Now that the old man is out of the picture, perhaps it will create more trust among the white Zimbabwean farmers and many more will return.

Racial tensions need to also be under control for this to work.


Last edited by AntonioR; 11-26-2017 at 05:36 PM..
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