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Old 01-12-2018, 02:33 PM
 
4,433 posts, read 4,413,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Simply not true. You are grossly overestimating the influence of regular people in these events. And dismissing Malaysia's and Singapore's massive economic development right off the bat with just a sentence is ridiculous. Malaysia is as rich as Portugal, a western European country, while 60 years ago it was dirt poor. Singapore likewise. The historical events you talk about is not the result of people going crazy based on ethnicity. They are strategic power struggles between nations. They are power games between national elites.
Yes because Malaysia is not a develop country in the sense of UK, Germany or Japan

And Singapore is a city state, which is different than larger administrative areas.


Quote:

You seem to subscribe to the idea that Africa should have thousands of tiny tribal states based on tribal allegiance. Meanwhile, you are totally ignoring that other countries, like Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia etc have seen massive economic development since the 1960s. They have hundreds of languages and different ethnicities. The reality is that the reason African countries have developed so slowly is because the elites in those countries simply do not want it. Just like the elites in Asian countries and elites in Europe did not want it. They resisted it. Because progress means change and that is not something people with power, status and privilege are interested in. Unless they are forced to.
Again those are not develop country in the sense of UK, Germany or Japan. Malaysia is developing but it not all the way the their yet. but I glad its progressing.


" is because the elites in those countries simply do not want it." and "Because progress means change and that is not something people with power, status and privilege are interested in. Unless they are forced to"

^^^^ nothing you said contradicts anything I said...... My point was Western nations went though this before also before got they better. After the industrial, and modern democracy came to Europe. There were false start, corruption, civil wars and etc in Europe. until the right leaders came who did care and was in good position to do something.

"You seem to subscribe to the idea that Africa should have thousands of tiny tribal states based on tribal allegiance." because there have actually have been civil wars cause by ethnic tension in Africa. That some leaders promise to just lead "blank group" over other people, or one group of people not comfortable with another group larger dominated the government. Again issue with this beside the oblivious of putting people against other. This clearly affect civil wars in Rwanda, Congo, Nigeria, Liberia and Sudan and etc. This also some times is a way for dictators and etc to gain powers. Tricking people promising something rosy a great revolution toward something good when turn out terrible dictators or at least bad leaders.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:56 PM
 
12,842 posts, read 4,638,397 times
Reputation: 5213
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Yes because Malaysia is not a develop country in the sense of UK, Germany or Japan

And Singapore is a city state, which is different than larger administrative areas.




Again those are not develop country in the sense of UK, Germany or Japan. Malaysia is developing but it not all the way the their yet. but I glad its progressing.


" is because the elites in those countries simply do not want it." and "Because progress means change and that is not something people with power, status and privilege are interested in. Unless they are forced to"

^^^^ nothing you said contradicts anything I said...... My point was Western nations went though this before also before got they better. After the industrial, and modern democracy came to Europe. There were false start, corruption, civil wars and etc in Europe. until the right leaders came who did care and was in good position to do something.

"You seem to subscribe to the idea that Africa should have thousands of tiny tribal states based on tribal allegiance." because there have actually have been civil wars cause by ethnic tension in Africa. That some leaders promise to just lead "blank group" over other people, or one group of people not comfortable with another group larger dominated the government. Again issue with this beside the oblivious of putting people against other. This clearly affect civil wars in Rwanda, Congo, Nigeria, Liberia and Sudan and etc. This also some times is a way for dictators and etc to gain powers. Tricking people promising something rosy a great revolution toward something good when turn out terrible dictators or at least bad leaders.
Malaysia is as developed as Portugal and Singapore is even richer. Most people consider Portugal to be a developed western country. So why did these countries develop? It has nothing to do with right leaders who care. Thats not how development works. Democracy is also not how development works. When the corrupt elites in any country, whether in Europe or in Malaysia or Singapore feel compelled to open up for reform and progress, then development will take place. Neither democracy nor caring leaders are needed.

If you think thousands of tiny, landlocked tribal countries would have been better for Africa, you are unrealistic. Wars would simply take place along thousands of different borders. It really doesnt matter what the people think, you are overestimating how regular people change the country they live in. Its the economic elites who decide these things, whether in a democracy or in a dictatorship. Thats true in Europe, Africa or anywhere. If the elites in Africa want development, it could happen yesterday. If they feel it is a threat to their status and power, it wont happen. They own the media, so they can easily manipulate the population with distraction and nonsense. Thats true whether in a democracy or dictatorship.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:27 PM
 
Location: BC Canada
831 posts, read 932,490 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
Gay rights isn't a major issue. It's an outgrowth of the decadence of the West. It's not crucial to the survival or the growth of man. One of the more vile things of the Obama administration was it's aggressive promotion of the gay agenda overseas.
Well at 3% of the world's population, 200,000,000 people would tend to disagree. Also, what countries in the world have the most advanced gay rights and which ones are the wealthiest..........they are exactly the same. This goes back to what I have always said, human rights are at the very foundation of economic growth and social prosperity.

No, obviously no expects Africa and Muslim countries to become human rights beacons overnight. The issue here is that when talking about economic growth these same countries never discuss the essential foundation of that growth............respect for people's rights and liberties. It must be a top agenda for all these undeveloped countries as economies and societies will not flourish if the people themselves are not allowed to. Until such a time these countries will remain poor, corrupt, and human rights violators and the ones who don't want to live in such an environment and have the means to leave do so and they are uniformly the most highly educated so the brain drain continues.
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Old 01-16-2018, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
72 posts, read 55,438 times
Reputation: 79
Well, these countries still cannot produce a food surplus. It's pretty much the same problem that has plagued them throughout history. Not producing enough food to have sustainable development.
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Old 01-17-2018, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,620 posts, read 16,419,369 times
Reputation: 6347
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
I known a Liberian girl and family and even that would be outrageous to them, remember this is the internet, crazies some times express themselves don't mistake that for the common.

As I said Western countries didn't get to where they are over night, Some Western countries went though decades and even a century after the industrial revolution with civil wars, political suitability and mass poverty until a large middle class and lot of innovations.
I have read several accounts of the Liberian War some as far back as the 90s. Most accounts detail cannibalism. I don't think the Liberian girl you know (odd how you think one person outweighs numerous accounts that confirm the practice) is going to admit or concede something like that to you. She wouldn't want to admit such a thing exists lest you think less of her. I'd lie about it too if I was her.

There is literally a clip of Doe, former president of Liberia, getting his ear sliced off and the general barking that to give it to him he wants to eat it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
3,495 posts, read 1,696,278 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I have read several accounts of the Liberian War some as far back as the 90s. Most accounts detail cannibalism. I don't think the Liberian girl you know (odd how you think one person outweighs numerous accounts that confirm the practice) is going to admit or concede something like that to you. She wouldn't want to admit such a thing exists lest you think less of her. I'd lie about it too if I was her.

There is literally a clip of Doe, former president of Liberia, getting his ear sliced off and the general barking that to give it to him he wants to eat it.
Itís not unbelievable at all, just because cannibalism is more common in one country more than the other doesnít mean it is common. In Liberia .1% of the population could be cannibals while 100 Americans are Cannibals, theirs still 100 times more cannibals in Liberia than America when factoring for popuLtion but Cannibalism is rare. For example Boko Haram doesnít affect 95%-99% of Nigerians today yet it is still a major problem.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,607,822 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvalens View Post
Well, these countries still cannot produce a food surplus. It's pretty much the same problem that has plagued them throughout history. Not producing enough food to have sustainable development.
Actually, Nigeria at independence in the 1960s was self-sufficient in food, and was a big agricultural cash crop exporter. Unfortunately, they also had another commodity, petroleum, and the 1970s oil boom distorted economic development to the extent that their agriculture sector suffered from disinvestment in several ways - depopulation of the farm population (human capital flocking to the cities), and underinvestment due to capital being drawn to the boom sector (oil industry), and appreciation of the currency making farm exports less internationally competitive. It's a phenomenon called the "Dutch disease" when the boom in petro revenues from the North Sea offshore oil and gas came to negatively affect the Netherland's other export sectors.

So when the inevitable oil bust came, Nigeria really suffered - because years of disinvesment resulted in the shrinkage of their agricultural sector to the extent that they had to import grain to feed their people - necessitating spending hard currency, and yet now they had less income to pay for it due to drops in petrorevenue (and becoming dependent on oil for 80-90% of their exports), and a big debt to service.
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:14 PM
 
6,551 posts, read 9,065,861 times
Reputation: 2832
^

Oil rich African countries should study Norway.


Quote:
Norway has pursued a classically Scandinavian solution. It has viewed oil revenues as a temporary, collectively owned windfall that, instead of spurring consumption today, can be used to insulate the country from the storms of the global economy and provide a thick, goose-down cushion for the distant day when the oil wells run dry.

Norway vs. the Oil Curse.

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Old 01-23-2018, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,607,822 times
Reputation: 6273
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
^

Oil rich African countries should study Norway.
Sovereign funds or stabilization funds can be used for countries with substantial oil revenues. They are ways to 1) save funds for a rainy day when oil revenues dip due to market forces 2) keep windfall revenues out of the local economy such that they won't force appreciation of the local currency and distort other economic sectors 3) be used as capital to fund economic diversification.

For these to work, however, requires a lot of discipline, political transparency, and the political will to make them work. Because often the country's constituents will clamor to have those funds used and spent.

Venezuela has tried and failed with its efforts in managing a stabilization fund over decades.

Malaysia and Indonesia have been relatively successful with national oil stabilization funds, often because their economies were and are more diversified to begin with.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Historic West End
4,216 posts, read 3,583,095 times
Reputation: 4024
True freedom equals responsibility. I long for the day when Africans will stop adopting and worshiping western culture and embrace it uniqueness, end foolish division, and stop depending on waiting on affirmation from other nations.
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