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Old 07-14-2018, 10:28 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,014,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You can do it in Israel and I dare you to do it in a public location in UAE. New word of the day: "Pashmina".
I was in the UAE over a decade ago. Unless the rules have dramatically changed, it was perfectly fine. Plenty of girls were walking around the mall in shorts and tank tops. Sure, it might get you a couple of stares here and there, but no one was harassed. If I'm not mistaken, the only place where that would be controversial is in the Emirate of Sharjah.

Of course, this is unlike Israel, where locals will dress the same way many Westerners do. In the UAE, it was mostly the expat community that would do it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:58 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
I was in the UAE over a decade ago. Unless the rules have dramatically changed, it was perfectly fine. Plenty of girls were walking around the mall in shorts and tank tops. Sure, it might get you a couple of stares here and there, but no one was harassed. If I'm not mistaken, the only place where that would be controversial is in the Emirate of Sharjah.

Of course, this is unlike Israel, where locals will dress the same way many Westerners do. In the UAE, it was mostly the expat community that would do it.
A few decades ago??? If you haven't noticed, the Arab Middle East has become more conservative not more liberal.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,516 posts, read 3,099,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
A few decades ago??? If you haven't noticed, the Arab Middle East has become more conservative not more liberal.

what the arabs do in their land is their own business. The problem starts when they start exporting their dark age Bedouin ideology to persia, eygpt, and the rest of the world.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
A few decades ago??? If you haven't noticed, the Arab Middle East has become more conservative not more liberal.
Not a few decades ago, "over a decade a ago" as in around 2005-2006. A few decades ago, the UAE was not even a country and certainly didn't have any malls, not to mention the fact that I wasn't even born yet.
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Old 07-16-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
You can do that in the UAE and Israel.
Are you male or female?

If you are male you likely don't understand.

As a woman I know if I dress certain ways even in my very liberal city that I am going to deal with the consequences of doing that.

For example I was walking around in micro shorts and a tube top I am going to have men leering at me. I am going to have other women giving me dirty looks. I might have men trying to touch me, take photos of me or make sexual comments towards me or about me. The risks are lower... but this is STILL what happens. Someone crossing the line ex trying to touch me or making comments towards me will be more likely punishable ... but that does not mean it will not happen.

Now giving how corrupt police forces are in these parts of the world and the general cultural attitudes encouraging modesty ... why would I be dumb enough to place my safety at risk?

When you get in trouble in a lot of these places including Israel they are so many more serious things to deal with that your personal rights are not likely their highest concern. If local people what to challenge the system it is their country... but while visiting you should no be trying to stand out for your own safety. This is common sense. Advising a traveller ... especially a female travelling to do otherwise is reckless.

If a women gets sexually assaulted in a western country is it hard to actually get charges pressed and have the person who violated you charged.... now imagine how easy that is going to be in the middle east?

This is not about support for what is right or wrong ... it is about personal safety.

Last edited by klmrocks; 07-16-2018 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 07-16-2018, 09:52 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,014,411 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klmrocks View Post
Are you male or female?

If you are male you likely don't understand.

As a woman I know if I dress certain ways even in my very liberal city that I am going to deal with the consequences of doing that.

For example I was walking around in micro shorts and a tube top I am going to have men leering at me. I am going to have other women giving me dirty looks. I might have men trying to touch me, take photos of me or make sexual comments towards me or about me. The risks are lower... but this is STILL what happens. Someone crossing the line ex trying to touch me or making comments towards me will be more likely punishable ... but that does not mean it will not happen.

Now giving how corrupt police forces are in these parts of the world and the general cultural attitudes encouraging modesty ... why would I be dumb enough to place my safety at risk?

When you get in trouble in a lot of these places including Israel they are so many more serious things to deal with that your personal rights are not likely their highest concern. If local people what to challenge the system it is their country... but while visiting you should no be trying to stand out for your own safety. This is common sense. Advising a traveller ... especially a female travelling to do otherwise is reckless.

If a women gets sexually assaulted in a western country is it hard to actually get charges pressed and have the person who violated you charged.... now imagine how easy that is going to be in the middle east?

This is not about support for what is right or wrong ... it is about personal safety.
I am male. I'm well aware of the fact that men have an unfair advantage over women in that part of the world, especially with regards to public appearances.

It's true that as a foreigner you will get more stares and possibly be even harassed for wearing inappropriate clothing. The only point I was trying to make is that in the UAE there were a lot of Western women who would dress very liberally when going out for daily errands. They would do so without running into any major issue. I think that Iran and Saudi Arabia are the only two that enforce hard rules regarding public dress codes, though I could be mistaken.

Israel is different in the sense that many locals adopt Western style clothing, so one wouldn't stick out as much. I'm talking about places like Tel Aviv, Haifa or Eilat. Obviously, going to the Old City in Jerusalem is a different matter altogether.

Now personally, if I were a women, I wouldn't feel comfortable, so I would go with a more modest approach. I fully agree with you there, when visiting a foreign land, follow the customs set in place, even if there are no binding rules in place.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Eretz Yisrael
21,364 posts, read 24,104,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Not a few decades ago, "over a decade a ago" as in around 2005-2006. A few decades ago, the UAE was not even a country and certainly didn't have any malls, not to mention the fact that I wasn't even born yet.
You may want to Google "arrested in UAE" and what comes up over the past three years is more conservative than over a decade ago (I live/work PT on Dubai for nearly 20 years).
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Toronto
6,754 posts, read 3,780,600 times
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Default ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
You may want to Google "arrested in UAE" and what comes up over the past three years is more conservative than over a decade ago (I live/work PT on Dubai for nearly 20 years).
I have heard some seriously shady stuff about the UAE too. So I would not be personally running around in micro shorts and a bikini top.

There is also a cultural thinking too.
For example if people in a certain culture are told from birth that people who dress like this are loose ... not good ... etc ... then often they make assumptions about people dressed like that before actually knowing them. I am not saying that is good.. but this is human nature.

If I know in a certain country only prostitutes dress a certain way ... then if I don't want someone to assume I am a prostitute I am not going to dress that way.

When in Morocco once. I was dressed in a way that I thought was fairly conservative for going to a night club and went to a place that was suppose to be a night club with this Moroccan guy from France that work in this hotel as a bar tender. His job should have given me red flags too. My husband ( who was not my husband yet) had never been to this place and was not from that city and assumed that this guy knew where he was taking us. We got to this place and no kidding all the women in there were prostitutes lol .

It took my husband and me a while to clue in to this but after a while I was like this is really off. Why are there way more men then women

Why are the women pulling the men to dance with them on the dance floor

Then it hit me ... and I was like we have to get out of her now!

These women were dress in western clothes too. Just my luck the police would walk in and raid the place and I would I have to figure out how to explain what I was doing there with 2 men .

I was so mad at that guy for being so thought less and class less for thinking it would be okay to take me there. He claims he did not really know and thought it was a normal night club like in Europe or North America.

Police in these places are very corrupt and can easily get a way with a lot.

This is why especially as a woman you really really really need to understand the culture of the place to help you read people.

In Arab, North African or Muslim culture if a man is forward with you as a women (meaning he is openly flirting with you, actively trying to have a conversation with you before being formally introduced by a mutual friend/ family or touches you) .... it is not a complement it is actually an huge insult. It suggests he thinks you are easy, he can fool around with you and that you are trashy. It also is a huge red flag this is not a man with good intentions or from a good family as this is NOT the way that would be socially acceptable to speak to a woman from there from a decent family. If you entertain this forwardness ... it validates his thoughts about you being loose/ easy etc. What you should do is not make eye contact, not smile and be very stern and that will help remind him that he better watch how he is talking to you. Men and women having too much physical contact in public can actually get you in trouble with the police and local people might actually approach you and makes comments. It is a big deal. Even a man and a woman holding hands in public can merit public shaming and harassment.

If a man is respectful from these cultures he will NEVER touch you even to shake hands, he will speak with you very respectfully and will not make excessive eye contact and likely keep his eyes down or look slightly to the side of you when speaking with you. He will be polite, but shy when talking with you. This is a sign of respect in this culture.

Not understanding this a visitor from another culture you would likely think the chatty man is the nice guy and the other man that appears stand offish is the problem. But in these cultures it is the opposite.

Last edited by klmrocks; 07-19-2018 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:09 PM
 
Location: California
241 posts, read 77,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
its been going down the drain since 642
More like 300AD but I get the point!
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,516 posts, read 3,099,103 times
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Originally Posted by Deuterion View Post
More like 300AD but I get the point!

word
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