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Old 08-27-2018, 09:02 AM
 
269 posts, read 90,862 times
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Someone referred Asian colonies. Well, who said that european colonial forces should not pay reparations to these countries too, or that such a colonial debt should be associated with povert? Debt is debt, and has to do with stolen wealth, independent from how former colonies look like today

UK should at least pay 2-3 trillions of pounds in the third world, and half of this amount is what France should pay
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribny View Post
The pre modern world was one vulnerable to famine and Africans were NOT exempt. In fact the French Revolution was motivated by a famine which was occurring at the time and the Potato Famines of Ireland have been well documented.

It is a debate as to whether Africa would or wouldn't have been better off without colonization. Note that nations which weren't colonized (Ethiopia) aren't the shining examples of prosperity in sub Saharan Africa.
it's not debated, as being more "archaic" doesn't mean that they would die from starvation.
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Old 08-28-2018, 05:52 AM
 
269 posts, read 90,862 times
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Guys, the conclusion of these reparations are an African and Asian people's problem, the only thing for sure is that you have a debt to pay to them
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Old 08-28-2018, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Somewhere below Mason/Dixon
6,526 posts, read 7,481,467 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
Guys, the conclusion of these reparations are an African and Asian people's problem, the only thing for sure is that you have a debt to pay to them
I have no debt to them whatsoever. The problems of Africa today are of their own making. NO, not one penny. I donít mind foreign assistance to them but the idea we owe reparations to them is absurd. I see no conclusions here that we owe anything to them.
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Old 09-04-2018, 07:43 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 837,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
Someone referred Asian colonies. Well, who said that european colonial forces should not pay reparations to these countries too, or that such a colonial debt should be associated with povert? Debt is debt, and has to do with stolen wealth, independent from how former colonies look like today

UK should at least pay 2-3 trillions of pounds in the third world, and half of this amount is what France should pay


it's not debated, as being more "archaic" doesn't mean that they would die from starvation.

They probably have in foreign aid since World War 2
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Old 09-19-2018, 11:58 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,828 posts, read 12,348,810 times
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I'm not even white or European, but if it wasn't for colonialism, Africa would be even more backward today. Europeans introduced basic concepts like nationhood, governance, democracy, capitalism etc to Africa and also laid the foundations of infrastructure there and introduced Africa to modern technology.
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Old 09-20-2018, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,513 posts, read 7,325,109 times
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Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
I'm not even white or European, but if it wasn't for colonialism, Africa would be even more backward today. Europeans introduced basic concepts like nationhood, governance, democracy, capitalism etc to Africa and also laid the foundations of infrastructure there and introduced Africa to modern technology.
One can argued that it would actually be a lot richer, considering many of the worlds resources that are most valuable to the economy are there. At one point, over half of the world's gold was controlled by a king in West African Mali, which was home to one of the world's renown universities(University of Timbuktu) prior to colonialism. Pre-colonial period(particularly during the Middle ages), one can say that Europe was pretty much the poorest(and perhaps most backwards) of the 3 major land masses or continents known in the old world. It wasn't until the age of Discovery that Europe really started to pull ahead in the game over everyone else. Before then, they were dependent on the Arabs and East/Central Asian( Chinese Mongols) for trade and resources. Christopher Columbus traveled to the Americas by accident on his way to Asia to reestablish Europe's trade commerce with the Mongol Empire; unbeknown to him had collapsed a century earlier.

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 09-20-2018 at 01:55 AM..
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:26 AM
 
Location: NY
178 posts, read 125,300 times
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Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
You mean when Africans sold other Africans to Europeans and Arabs?

I'll give you colonialism, but it was for a relatively short period of time in the history of Africa (we're talking 40-60 years at most in most cases). That hardly is the cause of most of the ills inflicting the continent today.


Haha. Ghana was fighting for its independence since 1800s and was the first sub-Saharan nation to achieve it in 1957. Mostly all sub-Saharan countries had colonization for over 100 years.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,057 posts, read 320,179 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
One can argued that it would actually be a lot richer, considering many of the worlds resources that are most valuable to the economy are there. At one point, over half of the world's gold was controlled by a king in West African Mali, which was home to one of the world's renown universities(University of Timbuktu) prior to colonialism. Pre-colonial period(particularly during the Middle ages), one can say that Europe was pretty much the poorest(and perhaps most backwards) of the 3 major land masses or continents known in the old world. It wasn't until the age of Discovery that Europe really started to pull ahead in the game over everyone else. Before then, they were dependent on the Arabs and East/Central Asian( Chinese Mongols) for trade and resources. Christopher Columbus traveled to the Americas by accident on his way to Asia to reestablish Europe's trade commerce with the Mongol Empire; unbeknown to him had collapsed a century earlier.
Africa would be a lot richer if they had leaders who didn't loot and steal everything they could, and unless their culture of corruption and theft ends, nothing will change. Consider Nigeria, who's leaders over a 40 year period stole or squandered $500 billion dollars. Or Kenyan president Moi, who stole or embezzled between 3-4 billion, over 24 years. Or Ali Bongo, leader of Gabon, who bought a 48,000 square foot mansion in Paris in 2010 for $136 million, and is rumored to own 39 properties in Paris alone. There are six more examples here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ce-claims.html

There are numerous cases of food aid being stolen and sold to buy weapons, and financial aid that just disappears. Illegal financial flows are estimated to take at least as much money out of Africa than the total amount of aid coming in. More here: Martha Leah Nangalama: AFRICA: Costs of corruption to the continent

https://qz.com/africa/975528/africa-is-losing-billions-annually-to-illegal-capital-flight/

And just today, it was announced that $97 million freshly minted Liberian dollars were stolen from the shipping containers it was stored in while being moved to the country's central bank. Martha Leah Nangalama: LIBERIA: $100mln goes missing while being transported to Central Bank
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
6,105 posts, read 1,841,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
Absolute hogwash. The West has been giving money to sub-Saharan Africa for decades. Where does the money go? Into kleptocrats' pockets. African countries are among the most corrupt in the world. Where would Africa be today without colonialism? Do you really think they'd even be nearly as well off as they are today? They'd all still be living mainly subsistence lives. Without the experience of European colonialism, Africans would still be tribal (as in the tribe would be the highest political order) and there would be no state.
Excellent post. Western countries have (and continue to) given African countries trillions in aid a long with trillions in investments into local resources, for political and financial reasons.

But due to political corruption at all levels, the money never gets passed down to the poor nor important infrastructure.

Itís beyond amazing to think people still believe giving African countries more money is the solution. Africa must fix itself, the white man canít and wonít do it.

White people dont even care about blacks in their own country, why would they care about Africans? Whining about European colonialism and the Transatlantic Slave trade wonít change the fact.

African countries must adopt the proven success of East Asian countries that were once 2nd and 3rd world countries with modernization and westernization. Sadly this involves a massive decrease in corruption so it will never happen.

African countries, like many blacks in other countries, are simply on their own. You either do what you can to become a Barack Obama, Ben Carson, or some educated Nigerian immigrant or you whine about being black and resort to a life of crime, poverty, and incarceration while praying in vain for some white guilt bureaucrat to legislate you up the social ladder.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:39 PM
Status: "Didn't work out as planned, eh?" (set 1 day ago)
 
3,774 posts, read 2,044,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Excellent post. Western countries have (and continue to) given African countries trillions in aid a long with trillions in investments into local resources, for political and financial reasons.

But due to political corruption at all levels, the money never gets passed down to the poor nor important infrastructure.

It’s beyond amazing to think people still believe giving African countries more money is the solution. Africa must fix itself, the white man can’t and won’t do it.

White people dont even care about blacks in their own country, why would they care about Africans? Whining about European colonialism and the Transatlantic Slave trade won’t change the fact.

African countries must adopt the proven success of East Asian countries that were once 2nd and 3rd world countries with modernization and westernization. Sadly this involves a massive decrease in corruption so it will never happen.

African countries, like many blacks in other countries, are simply on their own. You either do what you can to become a Barack Obama, Ben Carson, or some educated Nigerian immigrant or you whine about being black and resort to a life of crime, poverty, and incarceration while praying in vain for some white guilt bureaucrat to legislate you up the social ladder.

You should REALLY stop identifying with colonizers.
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