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Old 06-25-2018, 03:42 AM
 
268 posts, read 89,986 times
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I already know that many fellow Europeans will reject the idea that I will promote, but the main (if not the only) reason that Africa today is starving to death, and the main reason particular European countries are rich, is the colonialism previous centuries

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...lk-reparations

If countries like uk or france paid their debt to Africa, that would explode their national debts to 200% if not more of their GDP, but i think it's fair to pay it some day.

what do you think?
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Old 06-25-2018, 05:29 AM
 
24,227 posts, read 17,617,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
I already know that many fellow Europeans will reject the idea that I will promote, but the main (if not the only) reason that Africa today is starving to death, and the main reason particular European countries are rich, is the colonialism previous centuries

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...lk-reparations

If countries like uk or france paid their debt to Africa, that would explode their national debts to 200% if not more of their GDP, but i think it's fair to pay it some day.

what do you think?
A number of countries in Africa have leaders who simply hoard profits made from say the oil or natural resources industries in their private bank accounts in Europe. So simply writing large checks would probably benefit just a few people.

That doesn't mean that nothing should be done. Western nations can work with African nations to create good governance and to build up infrastructure in these nations, etc. That means holding leaders around the world accountable to good goverance and letting them know if they want to do business with the West or have economic relations they have to fight to end corruption and respect human rights.

Or simply find better ways to invest in Africa that don't involve simply taking profits back to Europe.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
18,624 posts, read 16,437,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
I already know that many fellow Europeans will reject the idea that I will promote, but the main (if not the only) reason that Africa today is starving to death, and the main reason particular European countries are rich, is the colonialism previous centuries

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...lk-reparations

If countries like uk or france paid their debt to Africa, that would explode their national debts to 200% if not more of their GDP, but i think it's fair to pay it some day.

what do you think?
African debt has been forgiven by European powers as recently as 10 years ago. I know the British colonies operated at a deficit with the exception of India, meaning that all of their possession in Africa were operated at a loss. I don't know if that's the case is for the French, Belgians or Portuguese though.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:32 PM
 
410 posts, read 183,905 times
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Sure, why not? Maybe also the properties spoiled from colonial European states and individuals should be tallied and docked from the reparations?
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:05 AM
 
268 posts, read 89,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
African debt has been forgiven by European powers as recently as 10 years ago. I know the British colonies operated at a deficit with the exception of India, meaning that all of their possession in Africa were operated at a loss. I don't know if that's the case is for the French, Belgians or Portuguese though.
The debt that was forgiven is nothing compared to the crimes that have been committed from 17th to 20th century
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Old 06-26-2018, 09:31 AM
 
Location: DC metropolitan area
632 posts, read 287,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
I already know that many fellow Europeans will reject the idea that I will promote, but the main (if not the only) reason that Africa today is starving to death, and the main reason particular European countries are rich, is the colonialism previous centuries

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...lk-reparations

If countries like uk or france paid their debt to Africa, that would explode their national debts to 200% if not more of their GDP, but i think it's fair to pay it some day.

what do you think?
Absolute hogwash. The West has been giving money to sub-Saharan Africa for decades. Where does the money go? Into kleptocrats' pockets. African countries are among the most corrupt in the world. Where would Africa be today without colonialism? Do you really think they'd even be nearly as well off as they are today? They'd all still be living mainly subsistence lives. Without the experience of European colonialism, Africans would still be tribal (as in the tribe would be the highest political order) and there would be no state.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:50 PM
 
268 posts, read 89,986 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
Absolute hogwash. The West has been giving money to sub-Saharan Africa for decades. Where does the money go? Into kleptocrats' pockets. African countries are among the most corrupt in the world. Where would Africa be today without colonialism? Do you really think they'd even be nearly as well off as they are today? They'd all still be living mainly subsistence lives. Without the experience of European colonialism, Africans would still be tribal (as in the tribe would be the highest political order) and there would be no state.
Living in a tribal way would be Africans' problem (which I think it's much better than starving to death, like they do today thanks to Europeans) the way it's European problem if they give aid to Africa or not

Europe (meaning particular countries) should pay ITS DEBTS TO AFRICA, not pretending that they help through aid
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:11 AM
 
1,593 posts, read 835,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
Living in a tribal way would be Africans' problem (which I think it's much better than starving to death, like they do today thanks to Europeans) the way it's European problem if they give aid to Africa or not

Europe (meaning particular countries) should pay ITS DEBTS TO AFRICA, not pretending that they help through aid

The EU gave $86 billion dollars in foreign aid. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aid
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Old 08-10-2018, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,658 posts, read 3,993,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giannis View Post
I already know that many fellow Europeans will reject the idea that I will promote, but the main (if not the only) reason that Africa today is starving to death, and the main reason particular European countries are rich, is the colonialism previous centuries

https://www.theguardian.com/global-d...lk-reparations

If countries like uk or france paid their debt to Africa, that would explode their national debts to 200% if not more of their GDP, but i think it's fair to pay it some day.

what do you think?
Britain is one of the few countries in the world that adheres and even exceeds foreign and developmental aid targets.

Britain currently contributes $17.88 billion of tax payers money every year, and we have already given hundreds of billions in aid over the decades.

Development aid - Wikipedia

1 in every £8 of global aid now paid for by British taxpayers - The Sun

The UK also had to contribute to hurricane disaster relief in the Caribbean last year, which due to foreign aid rules had to come from a seperate budget. We also sent military personnel, ships, aircraft and police officers.

UK aid continues to arrive for Hurricane Irma victims - GOV.UK

Britain has already exceeded it's international obligations and if you look back at British history our island was invaded numerous times by Romans, Vikings and subject to Dane Law, Anglo-Saxons, the Normans and the Dutch.

During WW2 our cities sustained massive bombing during the blitz and fought a war which left us on the verge of bankruptcy. There was no reparation for us, indeed we were left with a loan with interest following WW2.

Furthermore our own population was based on Serfdom, so few were free in Britain, whilst poverty and conditions in the industrial revolution were disgusting with an average male life expectancy of 26 in Liverpool in the 1840's.

BBC - History - London's 'Great Stink' and Victorian Urban Planning

The death rate in 1840 England was 23 per 1,000. In the early 18th century it’s estimated that the death rate was 80 per 1,000. To put that in context, Sierra Leone currently has the worst death rate in the world: 22.1 per 1,000.

As for a Legal Case, the UN International Court of Justice does not deal with such historical cases or reparation, so talk of a legal case is nonsense, whilst the UK has aready made it plain that it won't pay. In terms of the International Court of Justice they have also have very little power in terms of enforcement, indeed China has just totally ignored an ICJ ruling in relation to the building of islands in the South China Sea.

All Eyes on Slavery Reparations Case by Caribbean Nations

Reparation is not going to happen and the slave trade was banned by Britain in 1807 at which point Royal Navy ships actually stopped slave trade ships belonging to other nations thereby enforcing a total ban, a further complete ban on all slavery occurred in 1833 when the Slavery Abolition Act occurred.

Last edited by Brave New World; 08-10-2018 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 08-10-2018, 12:20 PM
 
Location: California
241 posts, read 78,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ner View Post
Absolute hogwash. The West has been giving money to sub-Saharan Africa for decades. Where does the money go? Into kleptocrats' pockets. African countries are among the most corrupt in the world. Where would Africa be today without colonialism? Do you really think they'd even be nearly as well off as they are today? They'd all still be living mainly subsistence lives. Without the experience of European colonialism, Africans would still be tribal (as in the tribe would be the highest political order) and there would be no state.
I’m sorry but you do not understand how the relationship between Africa and Europe operates. For one, if I took 100% of your check but gave you 10% back, the action of returning the funds would not be considered philanthrophy. You are classifying the action of returning partial profits from stolen goods as a charitable action so that you can feel moral about supporting thievery. Secondly, these “Kleptocrats” you are speaking on are propped up by the European governments...they are there to stop the people from rising up and nationalizing their industries. In order to ensure the “Kleptocrat’s” loyalty they give him cut of the profits for basically selling out his people. So basically you are blaming the figurehead leader and absolving the system of European exploitatio. all its misdeeds. There’s a reason why the CIA overthrew Mossadegh, Sukarto, Arbenz, Lumumba, and more because those leaders were all about putting an end to the exploitation of their resources at the hands of US corporations. When they were assassinated they were then replaced with “kleptocrats” who allowed the US corpoations to steal the resources...I’m not looking to debate on this though because there is no gray area here. This is what’s happening and if you do not want to accept it, it is something you have to grapple with on your own.
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