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Old 07-12-2018, 07:33 AM
Status: "Didn't work out as planned, eh?" (set 4 days ago)
 
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Let me clarify what I mean by "standard". It should not be assumed that Europe is the measure by which other cultures should evaluate themselves. Why would the master measure himself according to the progress of the student? Let's not be silly.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:04 AM
Status: "Thinking of the future..." (set 7 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Why is it assumed that Europe is the standard? Africa had civilizations long before anyone thought about a Europe. And they spoke Semitic languages. Africa is the standard. Some have forgotten; others have been miseducated.
Are there any cities, even if in ruins, of those ancient African civilizations?

In Europe there are places such as Pompeii, which is a testament to the advanced nature of the Roman Empire (they evolved enough to build cities of stone with sewer systems, aqueducts, etc.) In the Middle East there are similar cities and ruins, the same in many parts of Asia and even in the Americas (not all native american people had advanced civilizations. The Tainos had a civilization in the Caribbean islands, but you would be hard pressed to find a ruin of a Taino town, because they were an inferior civilization compared not just to the European/Asian ones, but also to other native american civilizations such as the Navajo, the Aztecs, the Mayans or the Incas.)

There is Egypt with its ruins and relics from the era of the Pharaohs, but I'm talking about Sub-Saharan Africa.

I have never heard of an ancient African city or ruins that exist today. Perhaps one exists and I simply don't know about it. How evolved were those ancient African civilizations?
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cebuan View Post
They are very selectively and aggressively choosing a European language to interact with the broader world, some even rejecting those of their colonizers..

Some are actually in the process of changing their common European language to English, from that of their colonizers. In 2008, Rwanda officially changed their language of school education from French to English. Nobody speaks Italian in Ethiopia or Somalia, it's all English. The Dutch never colonized South Africa, where the majority speaks Dutch (Afrikaans). Togo and Tanzania were once German colonies.
This isn't much different than what the Europeans are doing. In Sweden and other European countries university courses are taught in English and most of the population are multi-lingual. It is viewed as a practical arrangement and not an issue of ethnic pride. Learning English does not diminish the indigenous culture in any way. India and Singapore are also doing the same.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:53 AM
Status: "Didn't work out as planned, eh?" (set 4 days ago)
 
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I am not really familair with Africa like that. I can only speak to what limited info I have about the Americas. Many of the ruins were destroyed and paved over because a certain segment of the population doesn't want you to know who really inhabited those lands and built those civilizations. They want you to think the Europeans created everything, so it benefits them to leave European monuments and ruins in place as a reminder of their history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Are there any cities, even if in ruins, of those ancient African civilizations?

In Europe there are places such as Pompeii, which is a testament to the advanced nature of the Roman Empire (they evolved enough to build cities of stone with sewer systems, aqueducts, etc.) In the Middle East there are similar cities and ruins, the same in many parts of Asia and even in the Americas (not all native american people had advanced civilizations. The Tainos had a civilization in the Caribbean islands, but you would be hard pressed to find a ruin of a Taino town, because they were an inferior civilization compared not just to the European/Asian ones, but also to other native american civilizations such as the Navajo, the Aztecs, the Mayans or the Incas.)

There is Egypt with its ruins and relics from the era of the Pharaohs, but I'm talking about Sub-Saharan Africa.

I have never heard of an ancient African city or ruins that exist today. Perhaps one exists and I simply don't know about it. How evolved were those ancient African civilizations?
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by treemoni View Post

Let me clarify what I mean by "standard". It should not be assumed that Europe is the measure by which other cultures should evaluate themselves. Why would the master measure himself according to the progress of the student? Let's not be silly.
How do you feel about European languages being the national language of most sub-Saharan African countries? Should these African countries have an African language as their national language? If so,how should they decide which African language it should be?
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by AntonioR View Post
Are there any cities, even if in ruins, of those ancient African civilizations?

In Europe there are places such as Pompeii, which is a testament to the advanced nature of the Roman Empire (they evolved enough to build cities of stone with sewer systems, aqueducts, etc.) In the Middle East there are similar cities and ruins, the same in many parts of Asia and even in the Americas (not all native american people had advanced civilizations. The Tainos had a civilization in the Caribbean islands, but you would be hard pressed to find a ruin of a Taino town, because they were an inferior civilization compared not just to the European/Asian ones, but also to other native american civilizations such as the Navajo, the Aztecs, the Mayans or the Incas.)

There is Egypt with its ruins and relics from the era of the Pharaohs, but I'm talking about Sub-Saharan Africa.

I have never heard of an ancient African city or ruins that exist today. Perhaps one exists and I simply don't know about it. How evolved were those ancient African civilizations?

What does any of that have to do with the use of European languages in African today?



I don't know anything about "inferior" and "superior" and such, but the information you ask about is not hard to find for the genuinely interested. How ancient is ancient? How far South of the Sahara? Since in large parts of the region people built with materials that are more perishable, they don't last as long. But there is archaeological evidence of those people such as the sculpture of the Nok civilization in what's now Nigeria. Then there are remains in Ethiopia and in Sudan. Civilizations there had trade with Rome and the armies of Rome and Kush fought with each other. Maybe Aksum did too, I don't recall, but Aksum did have important trade with Rome. The remains of Zimbabwe are actually quite well known as Are Timbuctu and Jenne. Are they far enough South? And then there are the Swahili cities.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:06 PM
Status: "Didn't work out as planned, eh?" (set 4 days ago)
 
3,774 posts, read 2,046,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
How do you feel about European languages being the national language of most sub-Saharan African countries? Should these African countries have an African language as their national language? If so,how should they decide which African language it should be?
Yes, I think they should have pride in their own languages and customs...but unfortunately, it is very difficult to untrain a colonized mind. I don't see these countries ever exerting independence. At least not in the foreseeable future. Most of their citizens are too busy chasing fortune in the West. The only country I can see this happening in is South Africa...and it will be due to the Shemitic tribes (and it will also be a struggle). The Hamitic ones have different origins and values.

(Yes, I'm aware that some don't believe in "Hamite/Semite" origins, but I do and happen to think it explains a lot.)
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
4,490 posts, read 1,709,298 times
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If an African country is going to enforce the boundaries imposed by colonial powers (which they do), and those boundaries disregard traditional cultural and linguistic region, (which they do), why should not the "country" observe all the other trappings of European organiztion that they inherited?

Try explaining how an optical mouse works, or how to refine petroleum into motor fuel, to somebody in Bambera, without using any words of Latin/Greek origin, and have them fully understand the concept well enough to reproduce it. .
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