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Old 11-30-2018, 03:38 PM
3,774 posts, read 2,031,367 times
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Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
they have full control of their destiny something AA clearly do not have.
LOL. Some of you all will soon be in a world of hurt. You'd best be enjoying yourselves while you can.

Old 12-11-2018, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Snapshoot View Post
allow me to argue: point by point.

Highest standard of living?
the life expectancy of US black males was 74, lower than almost all the countries on that list.
specially compared with black males in the English Caribbean.

Most political power?
THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN most of the countries are self-govern black countries. they have 100% of the power.

Most opportunities for upward mobility?
well in THE ENGLISH CARIBBEAN countries all social classes are made out of blacks.

The point im trying to make is the US blacks cant claim any of those things just because they are riding the whites man wave.

Barbados, Bahamas, ect are the true and most complete example of black diaspora achievement in good government, self rule, high quality of life. not the US.
even Bermuda, a UK territory, enjoy great level of independence, it is self govern with it owns laws, immigration policy, currency, ect and it is the richest black country on earth. the (median) annual salary is about $85,000 us in Bermuda.

Very interesting!

Just to ensure that I understand correctly, are you implying that the countries such as Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda, etc. not only have black majorities but the black majority have economic wealth that surpasses the white citizens of these countries or control the wealth?

I remember when I visited the Bahamas approximately 20 years ago and thought that I was in heaven - seeing that the majority of the people were black and assumed that they had economic control as well.

The key questions that I continually asked myself throughout my visit were;

Do the black Bahamians control the shipping of food to the Bahamas?

Do the black Bahamians control the delivery and selling of food to fellow Bahamians?

Do black Bahamians own most of the real estate in the Bahamas?

Are there numerous examples of industries whereby there is black dominance throughout the various layers of the economy - vertical integration - for example, if we are focusing on food then I would expect true dominance to be the ownership of the ships that transport the food, control of freight insurance, ownership of the warehouses where the food is stored, ownership of the trucks that deliver the food to the retail establishments, ownership of the retail establishments, etc. etc.

Toward the end of my visit, the answer to my questions became apparent.

As I left the Bahamas, I pondered - Where on earth is there dominant vertical integration - control of each layer by black people - from manufacture to distribution to retail?!

I would venture to say that there are many countries throughout the world that may have people of color in the majority but the majority of the people of color may lack true economic power.
Old 12-16-2018, 05:21 PM
387 posts, read 112,882 times
Reputation: 173
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I agree. Africans enslaving other Africans doesn't change the fact that the actual slaves were still victims of the Slave Trade and their descendants continued to suffer as victims centuries later.

There were Jews that helped Nazis during the Holocaust but somehow Nazis are still held accountable for their horrific actions and are generally viewed as racists.

All Europeans descend from slaves or had slaves and serfs in their families. If you take into consideration the Roman Empire, with more than 20 million slaves, or the Feudal System in which most of the population were serfs, being Serfs practical slaves or even worse as their value was nihil, not to talk about Russian peasants...then Caucasians have more slavery points than AA.
Old 12-19-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
At the end of the day, despite the notion that being an African American is "hard," we really have no room to complain once we look at the blacks in other countries and the lack of opportunities they have compared to us. African Americans can truly make a case of being the "white people" of the African diaspora.

1. The largest black identified population outside of Africa resides in the USA (NOT Brazil).

2. The USA is the dominant country economically, politically and culturally through its powerful media. US culture and identity dominates the planet. So one will expect that black American culture, a subset of this, will also spread globally.

3. Given that blacks were present from the beginning of the USA emerging as a nation (20% of the population in 1790) and aren't a recent "immigrant" group as in Europe or even Canada then one would expect that blacks in the USA (inclusive of those of immigrant origin) would have carved out a space within this.

4. If you look at a lot of the black "firsts" you will find many to be of immigrant origin. So its not that black Americans are special. Its that blacks (both native and immigrant) are best able to make impact due to the size and power of the US.

Therefore it is no shock that black Americans will be the most powerful black group. Do you expect blacks from tiny impoverished Jamaica, or from Africa with all of their problems? Or Brazil where the majority dont even want to be called "black" (only 7% of Brazilians use black as a descriptor).
Old 12-19-2018, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MemoryMaker View Post
I would argue that blacks in Canada and Western Europe have similar if not slightly better prospects than blacks in the USA. The reason why is because: (1) Those countries have better social programs for those who need it, (2) Most of the black population there stems from recent immigrants so they are more likely to be driven and have an entrepreneurial spirit.

One of the biggest advantages that the USA and Canada have over Europe is that the average middle class family can easily buy a nice big standalone home for cheap while it is hard to do the same thing in most of Europe (obviously overpriced cities like NYC, LA and San Francisco are exceptions to this).

By region, I would say that the standard of living for blacks from best to worst is:

Western Europe = United States (tie)>
Eastern Caribbean (ex: Barbados, Bahamas, Trinidad)>
Southern Europe>
Latin America>
Southern Africa>
North Africa & Middle East>
West Africa = East Africa (tie)>
Interior Africa.

We can debate about Canada but Europe definitely not. The UK experience most closely parallels that of the USA but continental Europe blacks are in the main locked in an "immigrant" identity and in Europe being an immigrant isnt a good thing. The black middle class is smaller and has much less leverage to negotiate its interests than they do in the USA.

Canada and the UK, both closely entwined with the USA, have black middle classes that have been able to capture the leverage of the US black to advance their goals, given that Canadians and the British are highly aware of and impacted by events in the USA.

The condition for blacks in parts of Latin America (that is those who look purely "African" as the others aren't considered "black") its quite dire.

Also the infant mortality rates in parts of the Caribbean is lower than it is among black Americans and their relative socio economic status being better. In these places being "black" is almost a non factor when the dominant leadership is in fact black. I am not sure that living standards are necessarily lower than the average in black America when one considers the problems of the inner cities. Are blacks in Miami better off than those in Nassau? We can debate on this.

Last edited by caribny; 12-19-2018 at 01:02 PM..
Old 12-19-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
Sup Tiger....while I agree in your dissention of the original post, I kinda have to disagree that the inference is that ALL white people are rich. I dont think he/she reached that far.


His use of "white" shows a colonial mind. He is trying to imply that black Americans are the best blacks on that planet. He doesn't take into account that WITHIN the USA black immigrant groups almost always have higher indices of socio economic progress, and that even includes Haitians.

Yes using the term "white" is quite sad. He is an apologists as if white Americans can and so complain about conditions in the USA I fail to see why he thinks that blacks shouldn't if they feel that there is a better way.

His Confed flag is probably in hiding somewhere.
Old 12-19-2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Agbor View Post
In terms of culture, AAs have the LEAST African retentions of Diaspora Blacks, Haitians the most. In Africa some Africans might
consider AAs as "White" Due to their Western Culture, racial admixture and lack of a tribal identity. The Africans might identify
Jamaicans and Haitians as a misplaced African more than as a white person as there are more obvious elements of African culture in those societies that Africans can identify with ( I was watching a you tube video of a Jamaican man in Ghana talking
to a local market woman, they discovered that they used the same word for kola nut in both countries, the market woman said
("See you are an African!). Also, AAs are living in the same NON Tropical environment as Whites which also shapes culture.
I note the "misplaced" African comment. I was told by several West Africans that blacks from the English and French Caribbean are like Africans who " lost their language and their tribe". When I asked about black Americans the response was that he didn't know how to classify them as he couldn't find much that was obviously African.

Based on the headline I thought that it was the fact that black Americans have the least obvious African retentions of the major African diasporic groups would have been the direction. And I was preparing a response such that most American blacks are descended from people brought here when we had 13 colonies, whereas sizeable numbers of enslaved peoples were still entering Cuba and Brazil as late as 1860. And that numeric dominance plus a similar climate and plants allows a Caribbean person to better bond with an African than a black American would, given the similarity of the environments.

But instead its something about black Americans being the best blacks in the world, in a colonial mind meaning the whitest.
Old 12-19-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by treemoni View Post
Also, the reason AAs could have the least African retention is because... their ancestors were not African. They simply lived on the continent. .
You need to stop this nonsense. While black Americans mightn't be culturally African they are phenotypical African, at least in part. They look NOTHING like an Amerindian. Just under 500k people were kidnapped from Africa shipped directly to the USA, and many others also arrived via the Caribbean.
Old 12-19-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post

For Canada to surpass the United States, IMO, it would need a larger black community.

What inspires blacks the most is to see successful blacks, arguably America provides that platform more than any other country. I mean we just had 8 years of a black president.
If you knew Canada you would know that they benefit mightily from the black presence in the USA. The Canadian establishment is very aware of the need to allow civil rights and to mouth the need for diversity and multiculturalism. Because they are familiar with demands made by black Americans and other nonwhite, including immigrant groups.

Most Canadians black and white are as familiar with the relative status of blacks in the USA as are the American equivalent. After all 99% of their media is out of the USA and so they have the same info as do people living in the USA.

Your assessment is more applicable to France which lies outside of the US media and therefore the relative smaller black population ( no one knows its size as it is illegal in France to collect ethnic or religious data) and its poor mobilization has reduced its ability to press for greater access. The French establishment sees no need for dialogue on diversity or civil rights as in their view the concept of "race" doesn't exist in France.
Old 12-19-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
No, I'm talking about the African diaspora.

Yes, and being an African American is one of them when we factor in the African diaspora.

1. You don't need finances to apply for a job. And uncle sam loans you money for your education
2. You're not allowed to put race on you job application.
3. Airport security, never been an issue for blacks
4. Airline security, never been an issue for blacks
5. Visa application. Ok now you're just getting off the subject.

We're not talking about intersecitonality or airline security. We're talking about the African diaspora.
I know that you aren't that nave. Race remains a social construct in the USA and it does impact one's ability to get and keep a job. Does it bar one from employment? No, but you better believe that some white kid from the PRIVATE country club has more access than some black kid whose father was a bus driver and whose mother is a nurse.

And you do know that job interviews are part of the process so the employer will fully well know who you are (race, gender, social class, and culture) before he decides whether to hire you. Studies show that black Harvard MBAs start off with only moderately low salaries then do their white counterparts but that 2 decades later a significant gap emerges. This is true also with even the model minority group, Asians.
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