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Old 03-23-2019, 06:52 AM
 
Location: Meredith NH
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Another racism troll...….nobody took the bait after the first post so he had to remind everyone in his second post
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,506 posts, read 7,309,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Ancient Libya was not Africa, but Northern Africa west of Egypt. Berber land basically.
Well, a very large swath of sub-saharan Africa was not yet known, but Libya was perceived as to be North Africa west of Egypt, much of Mali, Sudan, and the horn of east Africa. Ancient Libya was basically two branches: Northwest Africa and Ethiopia.

"If then we judge alright of these matters, the opinion of the Ionians about Egypt is not sound:but if the judgment of the Ionians is right, I declare that neither the Hellenes nor the Ionians themselves know how to reckon since they say that whole Earth is made up of three divisions, Europe, Asia, and Libya because they ought to count in addition to these the Delta of Egypt, since it belongs to neither to Asia nor to Libya: for at least it cannot be the river Nile by this reckoning which divides Asia from Libya[or Africa], but the Nile is cleft at the point of this Delta so as to flow round it, and the result that this land would come between Asia and Libya." 2.16 The Histories

Last edited by Chicagoland60426; 03-23-2019 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 03-23-2019, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Miami-Dade
396 posts, read 135,896 times
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Egypt and North Africa are mixed which is why they aren't seen as black. Many Latin Americans don't identify as black even though they are descendants of African slaves

Egypt is still primarily Africa. That wasn't on accident.
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Old 03-23-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,366 posts, read 19,293,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoland60426 View Post
Well, a very large swath of sub-saharan Africa was not yet known, but Libya was perceived as to be North Africa west of Egypt, much of Mali, Sudan, and the horn of east Africa. Ancient Libya was basically two branches: Northwest Africa and Ethiopia.

"If then we judge alright of these matters, the opinion of the Ionians about Egypt is not sound:but if the judgment of the Ionians is right, I declare that neither the Hellenes nor the Ionians themselves know how to reckon since they say that whole Earth is made up of three divisions, Europe, Asia, and Libya because they ought to count in addition to these the Delta of Egypt, since it belongs to neither to Asia nor to Libya: for at least it cannot be the river Nile by this reckoning which divides Asia from Libya[or Africa], but the Nile is cleft at the point of this Delta so as to flow round it, and the result that this land would come between Asia and Libya." 2.16 The Histories
The Egyptians clearly depicted Libyans differently from black Africans.
Libya did not stand for black African regions such as Mali. In fact, black West Africa (except for the coast) used to be referred to as Sudan. The Egyptians were very aware of black Africa south of Egypt, they traded a lot with each other and there were also lots of power struggles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Frustratedintelligence View Post
Egypt and North Africa are mixed which is why they aren't seen as black. Many Latin Americans don't identify as black even though they are descendants of African slaves

Egypt is still primarily Africa. That wasn't on accident.
There are lots of studies on genetics of ancient and modern Egyptians.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_history_of_Egypt
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Old 03-23-2019, 08:43 PM
 
6,551 posts, read 9,065,861 times
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Some good insights. He's an Algerian who has lived in west Africa.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=zmQ0S2VO_SQ


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Old 03-24-2019, 01:38 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
15,504 posts, read 17,716,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Some good insights. He's an Algerian who has lived in west Africa.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=zmQ0S2VO_SQ


I can't seem to get the video to play. Can anyone provide a summary of his viewpoint?
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:43 PM
 
603 posts, read 464,496 times
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Its not exactly a one way street. How many black Africans view the northerners as being of the same identity or even true Africans?


I don't understand the relevance of this thread topic. Why exactly would black Africans care to be associated with Egypt, what is it that Egypt has that they need? Is it to lay claim in some degree to their ancient history? I suppose some of the so called "afrocentrist" loons covet the association for that reason alone but why would anyone else desire closeness to modern Egypt.


In my opinion black Africa is better off without a sense of common identity with Egypt, north Africa and the middle east. Too many undesirable cultural, ideological currents in those regions. One only need look to northern Nigeria to see the effects of that influence.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Northern Nigeria is infected with Islam
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Chicago metro
3,506 posts, read 7,309,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
The Egyptians clearly depicted Libyans differently from black Africans.
Libya did not stand for black African regions such as Mali. In fact, black West Africa (except for the coast) used to be referred to as Sudan. The Egyptians were very aware of black Africa south of Egypt, they traded a lot with each other and there were also lots of power struggles.


The Egyptians may have been more specific on who they referred as Libyans, but to the ancient Greeks, like Herodotus, also defined it as all of known Africa. In that sense, ancient Ethiopia(included modern day Sudan) by default was a sub-division of Libya, because only three continents- others being Europe and Asia- were known to them. Even wikipedia points this out. The map of ancient Libya clearly extends to south of Egypt

This really comes down to context. It's like in modern times, we(at least from an American perspective) mainly just see Africa synonymous with Black Africa, or Asia as just the East and Southeast Asians(contrast with the ancients).
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:39 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,366 posts, read 19,293,025 times
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Right under your image it says "Ancient map from Herodotus showing the area of Libya in north Africa, circa 450 BC"

Libya never went beyond North Africa. It never included what is now Nigeria, the Kongo etc., whether known or unknown back then.

Generally speaking, I get the impression that Herodotus knew less than the Egyptians knew long before him, which is odd.
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