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Old 04-30-2019, 10:37 AM
AFP
 
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This is true the difference is there that there is a subculture of ritual killings or killing children who are deemed "defective" or "witches" or "who are thought to bring back luck" in additionthe harvesting of body parts among some ethnic groups at least in some isolated pockets. There is no subculture of serial killings in the West.
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:05 PM
 
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AFP, you are missing my point. You asked for a solution for the ritual killings to stop. These kinds of killings happen there really isn't away to stop it other than for the governments to continue what they are doing like put people to jail etc as an example. There are so many subcultures in the west just like the rest of the world. Why don't you hear of serial killers in other parts of the world (not trying to debate this further just saying). Ritual killings happen in Mexico, Wales, UK, Louisiana, CA, etc. Not anything to be alarmed about but killings happen which is my point there isn't a solution for crazy other than to make them an example.
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
3,539 posts, read 1,741,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
This is true the difference is there that there is a subculture of ritual killings or killing children who are deemed "defective" or "witches" or "who are thought to bring back luck" in additionthe harvesting of body parts among some ethnic groups at least in some isolated pockets. There is no subculture of serial killings in the West.
Your approaching this completely wrong. First of you use the world subculture to describe this.

ďa cultural group within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at variance with those of the larger culture.ď
Their is no shared larger culture for example- we donít speak the same language mutually intelligible, we donít eat the same foods (although that is rapidly changing) we donít dress the same way, we donít have the same traditions. Arguably Yoruba culture is the culture that values twins the most in the world, with the highest rate of twins in the world. We happen to share the same country as another culture whoís main interaction with Yorubas before the federation of Nigeria was trading or no interaction at all (I would have put war but they are physically too far to even have historically been war opponents and even when Yoruba dominated its region and was the size of an average European country this group was located well past the fringes. Now imagine if Iceland and Portugal where in the same country as this is about the cultural distance between these two groups if not more. As you may or may not know Iceland while it doesnít kill of twins, it practices a more advanced version of the culture in East Africa that killed ďdefectiveĒ babies, Iím sure if this country was advanced they would just be doing what Iceland was doing today instead of murder. Iceland has a strong culture of aborting fetuses with Down syndrome detected. Now you may not have a strong opinion on this, but just to show the even mildly conservative American opinion on this... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...f68_story.html

Now would it be fair for me to ask what are you doing or your government about the genocide of children in Iceland? Asking about Ritual Killings is literally the exact same thing. Your asking about something that is as alien to me as Chinese culture as me being half-Yoruba we value twins above anything pregnancy related, but I happen to share a country with people who donít. Just like you share a Union with people who donít value babies.

Then their is the drug culture of the West, now drug use is a problem worldwide but it is endemic in many European countries, what is Europe doing about its people abusing drugs and thus allowing cartels that kill thousands of people to grow bigger in other parts of the world.

Or the Catholic Church being complicit in at this point Thousands of rapists worldwide. What is going on with this culture that allows rape.

As I live in the west I obviously donít have this view, or I would be so disgusted living here I would just go home, but my point is see how easy it is to scapegoat culture. The ritual killings are bad but their neither common unless compared with Europe and they arenít allowed either, the only thing governments can do is continue their work. But like a Portuguese citizen wonít listen to the British PM, many of these tiny rural ethnic groups wonít listen a government filled with members of different ethnic groups that are nothing like their own. In fact Catalan which is as culturally close to Spain as many of the Ijaw languages are close to each other is trying to secede today, and violence/ separation between the various subethnicities of the Ijaws whoís languages vary largely and have similar history to the formation of Spain, France or Germany has all but ended a long time ago and now violence/conflict is mostly inter-ethnic.

My main problem with threads like this is that not only does it perpetuate stereotypes, it also seems extremely arrogant from posters who in all fairness I like. Both you and Motion have some great posts on this platform.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:19 PM
AFP
 
6,934 posts, read 4,310,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayarea-girl View Post
AFP, you are missing my point. You asked for a solution for the ritual killings to stop. These kinds of killings happen there really isn't away to stop it other than for the governments to continue what they are doing like put people to jail etc as an example. There are so many subcultures in the west just like the rest of the world. Why don't you hear of serial killers in other parts of the world (not trying to debate this further just saying). Ritual killings happen in Mexico, Wales, UK, Louisiana, CA, etc. Not anything to be alarmed about but killings happen which is my point there isn't a solution for crazy other than to make them an example.
I'm interested in both things a solution to reduce these ritual killings and also I also want to understand to the underlying cultural reasons why some segments participate in them.
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Old 04-30-2019, 04:31 PM
AFP
 
6,934 posts, read 4,310,386 times
Reputation: 5900
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Your approaching this completely wrong. First of you use the world subculture to describe this.

ďa cultural group within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at variance with those of the larger culture.ď
Their is no shared larger culture for example- we donít speak the same language mutually intelligible, we donít eat the same foods (although that is rapidly changing) we donít dress the same way, we donít have the same traditions. Arguably Yoruba culture is the culture that values twins the most in the world, with the highest rate of twins in the world. We happen to share the same country as another culture whoís main interaction with Yorubas before the federation of Nigeria was trading or no interaction at all (I would have put war but they are physically too far to even have historically been war opponents and even when Yoruba dominated its region and was the size of an average European country this group was located well past the fringes. Now imagine if Iceland and Portugal where in the same country as this is about the cultural distance between these two groups if not more. As you may or may not know Iceland while it doesnít kill of twins, it practices a more advanced version of the culture in East Africa that killed ďdefectiveĒ babies, Iím sure if this country was advanced they would just be doing what Iceland was doing today instead of murder. Iceland has a strong culture of aborting fetuses with Down syndrome detected. Now you may not have a strong opinion on this, but just to show the even mildly conservative American opinion on this... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...f68_story.html

Now would it be fair for me to ask what are you doing or your government about the genocide of children in Iceland? Asking about Ritual Killings is literally the exact same thing. Your asking about something that is as alien to me as Chinese culture as me being half-Yoruba we value twins above anything pregnancy related, but I happen to share a country with people who donít. Just like you share a Union with people who donít value babies.

Then their is the drug culture of the West, now drug use is a problem worldwide but it is endemic in many European countries, what is Europe doing about its people abusing drugs and thus allowing cartels that kill thousands of people to grow bigger in other parts of the world.

Or the Catholic Church being complicit in at this point Thousands of rapists worldwide. What is going on with this culture that allows rape.

As I live in the west I obviously donít have this view, or I would be so disgusted living here I would just go home, but my point is see how easy it is to scapegoat culture. The ritual killings are bad but their neither common unless compared with Europe and they arenít allowed either, the only thing governments can do is continue their work. But like a Portuguese citizen wonít listen to the British PM, many of these tiny rural ethnic groups wonít listen a government filled with members of different ethnic groups that are nothing like their own. In fact Catalan which is as culturally close to Spain as many of the Ijaw languages are close to each other is trying to secede today, and violence/ separation between the various subethnicities of the Ijaws whoís languages vary largely and have similar history to the formation of Spain, France or Germany has all but ended a long time ago and now violence/conflict is mostly inter-ethnic.

My main problem with threads like this is that not only does it perpetuate stereotypes, it also seems extremely arrogant from posters who in all fairness I like. Both you and Motion have some great posts on this platform.
1.Yes I used the word subculture in the sense that for example the Hammer are an Ethiopian subculture that participate in ritualistic infanticide.


2. That is true I'm aware that there is no shared larger culture in Africa but there are within each country. Then again the Hammer are so isolated that culturally they probably aren't part of a larger Ethiopian culture.


3. The thread is labeled Africa ritual killings which makes it more difficult to have a nuanced conversation. I've met enough Nigerians to know that there are unique different cultures within the country. I do think though that these rituals are being done because of culture and beliefs I wasn't implying that it was because of a Macro African culture.


4. Well in all honesty I am a bit arrogant in some of my opinions so there is no other way to come across. You points are well taken.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:57 PM
AFP
 
6,934 posts, read 4,310,386 times
Reputation: 5900
I would like to see this movie the trailer looks very interesting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjYG4V6EGk4
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:09 PM
AFP
 
6,934 posts, read 4,310,386 times
Reputation: 5900
This is very good


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzsKBqa_3T8
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Old 04-30-2019, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Katy,Texas
3,539 posts, read 1,741,373 times
Reputation: 2243
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
1.Yes I used the word subculture in the sense that for example the Hammer are an Ethiopian subculture that participate in ritualistic infanticide.


2. That is true I'm aware that there is no shared larger culture in Africa but there are within each country. Then again the Hammer are so isolated that culturally they probably aren't part of a larger Ethiopian culture.


3. The thread is labeled Africa ritual killings which makes it more difficult to have a nuanced conversation. I've met enough Nigerians to know that there are unique different cultures within the country. I do think though that these rituals are being done because of culture and beliefs I wasn't implying that it was because of a Macro African culture.


4. Well in all honesty I am a bit arrogant in some of my opinions so there is no other way to come across. You points are well taken.
What I meant by subculture wasnít Africa wide, but intra country. For example itís like Catalan and Spain, I donít think you can classify Catalan as a subculture of Spain/Spanish because while they have similarities now out of a country in which both groups lived they are clearly different cultures. My example wasnít meant to be the Ethiopian group but the Bassa-Komo group, for example this is the first time me personally have heard of them and while Iím not as well travelled in Nigeria as my forefathers they have never mentioned these people to me and you actually informed me of their twin killing practice which is disgusting. As in their not a subculture of Nigeria because until circa 1970s most Nigerian ethnic groups had no shared culture, their is several degrees of ethnic separation. For me the best example is itís akin to saying a government ruled by Portuguese people saying Iceland should stop killing babies with Down syndrome as a cultural practice. While the government of mostly Portuguese people as government leaders are supposed to maintain order and the like what will prompt the Icelandic people to ditch their traditions because the government filled with Portuguese, Hungarians, Serbians and Italians demand so. These people until quite recently (not including Vikings) had very little cultural interaction and were neither historical friends or enemies.

My point is the situation isnít comparable to a European country as their has been hundreds of years of mainstream cultural interaction. While southern Nigeria had widespread cultural interaction across an area akin to Italy and Northern Nigeria as well, the middle portion of the country was filled with several smaller ethnic groups that if history had happened like Germany, France or Italy would be today considered akin to a tribe of Franks or Germanic people whoís main difference between them is accent of German and some food. But instead the middle of Nigeria developed relatively isolated from each other with no real dominant power leading to nearly a hundred smaller ethnic groups of often less than 2 million people. Of course as Nigerianization (made up word) occurs many of these small ethnic groups are disappearing and merging of into larger ones but as of now their more akin to if Portugal and Iceland shared a country.
This is why representation is important, sadly for these groups that are so infinitely small their unlikely to ever get representation in government and until they merge into a larger ethnic group through forced assimilation into the thee-ten main ethnic groups of Nigeria, youíll just have a situation of a bunch of far away leaders even being located right outside of the capital Abuja, with no ties positive or negative as far as history goes telling them that their culture is bad and they have to change it.

These groups see no difference between a Yoruba-Hausa-Igbo majority government telling them to change their ways and an American telling them to change their ways. The West through Americanization and intraciuntry Assimilation has completely eliminated this problem even most of the middle eastern countries donít have two cultures that have next to zero cultural interaction until now, the best examples I can give you of this conundrum is the Amish and Hawaiians both being part of the U.S and if President Obama as a Hawaiian was to tell the Amish what to do.

Governments can only keep trying to change the people they lead but as long as the extreme cultural separation exists in many African countries problems like this will continue to arise, were a government will be ineffective in stopping a growing crisis.
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Old 05-01-2019, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
1,208 posts, read 1,593,476 times
Reputation: 706
Quote:
Originally Posted by NigerianNightmare View Post
Your approaching this completely wrong. First of you use the world subculture to describe this.

ďa cultural group within a larger culture, often having beliefs or interests at variance with those of the larger culture.ď
Their is no shared larger culture for example- we donít speak the same language mutually intelligible, we donít eat the same foods (although that is rapidly changing) we donít dress the same way, we donít have the same traditions. Arguably Yoruba culture is the culture that values twins the most in the world, with the highest rate of twins in the world. We happen to share the same country as another culture whoís main interaction with Yorubas before the federation of Nigeria was trading or no interaction at all (I would have put war but they are physically too far to even have historically been war opponents and even when Yoruba dominated its region and was the size of an average European country this group was located well past the fringes. Now imagine if Iceland and Portugal where in the same country as this is about the cultural distance between these two groups if not more. As you may or may not know Iceland while it doesnít kill of twins, it practices a more advanced version of the culture in East Africa that killed ďdefectiveĒ babies, Iím sure if this country was advanced they would just be doing what Iceland was doing today instead of murder. Iceland has a strong culture of aborting fetuses with Down syndrome detected. Now you may not have a strong opinion on this, but just to show the even mildly conservative American opinion on this... https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.was...f68_story.html

Now would it be fair for me to ask what are you doing or your government about the genocide of children in Iceland? Asking about Ritual Killings is literally the exact same thing. Your asking about something that is as alien to me as Chinese culture as me being half-Yoruba we value twins above anything pregnancy related, but I happen to share a country with people who donít. Just like you share a Union with people who donít value babies.

Then their is the drug culture of the West, now drug use is a problem worldwide but it is endemic in many European countries, what is Europe doing about its people abusing drugs and thus allowing cartels that kill thousands of people to grow bigger in other parts of the world.

Or the Catholic Church being complicit in at this point Thousands of rapists worldwide. What is going on with this culture that allows rape.

As I live in the west I obviously donít have this view, or I would be so disgusted living here I would just go home, but my point is see how easy it is to scapegoat culture. The ritual killings are bad but their neither common unless compared with Europe and they arenít allowed either, the only thing governments can do is continue their work. But like a Portuguese citizen wonít listen to the British PM, many of these tiny rural ethnic groups wonít listen a government filled with members of different ethnic groups that are nothing like their own. In fact Catalan which is as culturally close to Spain as many of the Ijaw languages are close to each other is trying to secede today, and violence/ separation between the various subethnicities of the Ijaws whoís languages vary largely and have similar history to the formation of Spain, France or Germany has all but ended a long time ago and now violence/conflict is mostly inter-ethnic.

My main problem with threads like this is that not only does it perpetuate stereotypes, it also seems extremely arrogant from posters who in all fairness I like. Both you and Motion have some great posts on this platform.

Knowledge......
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:15 AM
 
3,157 posts, read 6,866,359 times
Reputation: 1569
Nigeriannightmare, I can't rep you enough!
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