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Old 05-12-2013, 09:17 AM
 
Location: canada
294 posts, read 442,723 times
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Do you think this is because it had a profound impact on little to no impact on her ?
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
5,018 posts, read 8,099,506 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplelady View Post
Thanks for the responses. I am interested that you observe that KSU cintinues to keep the hippy legacy. I agree, in that there is a certain group who have made a living off this. I do not think the KSU admin has treid to cultivate this, as for a lond time they tried to minimize this. Now, the vision I see from far away is of a very preppy, tech savy community oriented university.
Generally, at least while I was there, I think the administration was indifferent to the event. They weren't trying to forget it happened like previous administrations might have. (There is/was a real effort to re-brand the university from "Kent State," to "Kent State University" or just "KSU.")

Quote:
Taylor was the journalism school when May 4 happened. So many new buildings have been bulit since.
It may have always been shared with journalism, but, just to be clear, Taylor Hall was built for the architecture program.

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They should have put the Memorial Centre, just officially opened, in Taylor or Prentice.
It is in Taylor Hall, isn't it?

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I understood that all undergrads had to take a short seminar on May 4.
I don't remember having to do this. But that was almost 18 years ago, and a lot happened during orientation week.

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So touching how you said it was hard to avoid the May 4 observances since you has to get to Taylor. That sound so much like what so many kids were trying to do that day in 1970, just get to class. I believe that is what Sandy and Bill were trying to do.
Yes, which is another reason why I'm angered by the attitude of "those hippies got what they deserved" that I've occasionally heard over the years.

Quote:
I feel very badly about all the negativity one hears about Youngstown. Glad you were able to return home and live the life you wanted. the old houses are lovely.
Thanks! Youngstown wasn't originally my home; I moved here for a job. But it has become home.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:52 AM
 
Location: SC
2,967 posts, read 4,500,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplelady View Post
Do you think this is because it had a profound impact on little to no impact on her ?
Yes, I believe it did not really impact her enough to bring it up. I -think- she said she was on spring break or something at the time, but I would have to ask her to be sure. I am almost 40 and she may have mentioned it 2 times in my life - probably because a tv show came on about it or something.

I am sure that if she was physically there at the time like her room mates, it would of left a larger impression.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:45 AM
 
Location: canada
294 posts, read 442,723 times
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JR_C

Thanks for your careful consideration of all my questions.

I misunderstood, I thought the new Memorial centre was in a small space of the Library.

Yes, I have sensed how the school has tried to re brand itself away from the Kent State moniker.

I think it was President Cartwright who finally got things into perspective for the powers that be and made the real effort to have the event and the aftermath be given proper respect. Those before may have been too close to the events yet.

As a student, when you walked around the town did you ever hear comments from town folk, referring to the events or blaming students ?

If you have not, read the Mitchner book, if you are interested in seeing your alma mater from the light of post May 4.

I remember it being said what a beautiful building Taylor Hall was.. so it makes sense that is was the School of Architecture. I can't even image standing on the portico or by the bell or in the parking lot. Or the Speech building, or Blanket Hill or even the infamous Tri Towers.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:46 AM
 
Location: canada
294 posts, read 442,723 times
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Bmachina,

Did she go back or did she graduate that spring ? She was lucky she was not on campus that day or week end.
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Old 05-12-2013, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
40,289 posts, read 49,814,219 times
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I lived close to Kent then, and was just about the same age as the victims.
Since we lived there for 30 years after, I must admit, right or wrong, that many of us locals could not continue to share the enthusiasm for the anniversary of the event, after a couple decades. We had moved on.
I am glad that May 4th is getting to be more about Star Wars Day than Kent State.
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Old 05-12-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: canada
294 posts, read 442,723 times
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Oliver Stone spoke this year. Perhaps May 4 is next in his Vietnam trilogy.
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Old 05-12-2013, 04:24 PM
 
Location: SC
2,967 posts, read 4,500,948 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplelady View Post
Bmachina,

Did she go back or did she graduate that spring ? She was lucky she was not on campus that day or week end.
Yes, she returned after her vacation and continued on. Then returned years later for a few Masters degrees. She just left here for dinner and I completely forgot to ask her about it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,914 posts, read 4,486,824 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maplelady View Post
Caleb,

Thanks for posting. I have read your oilder posts on other threads about this with interest. This subject is fascinating to me and I am not sure why. i was ten when it happened, and a Canadian. I have met many draft dodgers in my life, had some as teachers. I think my interest is partly due to my interest with all things Ohio, that middle of the country mystique about a place which on the surface, would have no mystique.

I understand that some famous musicians were right there near the gunfire , the founding member of Devo, who was an SDS member and Chrissie Hynde. Both were very close to the fallen students and both were from Akron.


Have you read the Mitchner book ? It portrayed the Akron area a redneck and vigilante after the incident.

Have you ever gone to the campus to visit the memorials or gone to any May 4 ceremonies ? I understand Oliver Stone spoke this year...perhaps he will make a movie about this.

Iread on earlier threads all the ballistic evidence, etc and have read so many accounts, reports, statements and seen the Kruppe tape. It does seem as important as the Zapruder tape. Another grassy knoll...

My own feeling is that there was confusion and if they were really aiming there would have been many more dead. I do think the students were mostly out too see what was going on. I think there was huge resentment amongst Guard toward college demonstrations about the war. I think this event became the touchstone of war being lost in the living rooms of Americans.. I think that Kent became far more known that the other incident in the south because this was the NE and there was a greater mass of media, population, and outrage amongst the Jewish community over the fact that 3 of the 4 kids were Jewish.

When I read the Mitchner book, ( I refer to it because it was written by a famouir author with no connection to the events, who went there for a year to research, the book was widely read and some of the misconceptions and innaccuracies remain viewd as facts, but all in all, the seminal work on the event and the times) I am struck by how much society has changed. How a persons hair length could get them in trouble or how people were branded hippies and assumed to be all the same. Funny when I look at the pictures, how the styles could very much be from today.

Aside from the politics and the logistics of the attack I am very interested in any memories people have. I am interested to know if peoplem stillm talk about it in coffee shops and family rooms. I would love to hear from people who were on campus that day but also from seniors who maybe had businesses damaged in the Friday night downtown. 1970 was so long ago now in one persons life. The college kids of the day are now in their 60's and many individuals central to the event are now passed on. I think of the people who tried to quell the event and prevent or minimize the damage, such a Prof. Lewis. I ubderstand he was still teaching at Kent at least a few years ago.
Yes, Devo was from the area, Akron actually off of North Hill if I remember...State Road.....over that way....Chrissie Hynde actually went to Firestone High. Same high school that graduated Judy Resnick (Shuttle Challenger Explosion fame) 4 years earlier. When I was young, I remember me and a friend who lived 2 doors down and across the street used to camp out in his back yard and sneak over to her house watching these "demonstrative types" (think big hair bands) dressed outrageously come by her parents humble abode....I believe it was the house on Stabler at the corner of Ganyard?....no matter, very "Blossom Music Center" type of times back then....

Akron wasn't "redneck". Especially by today's standards and to say so is beyond ignorant. It was squarely middle class, blue collar, rubber factory entrenched and auto parts manufacturing related. Redneck? Wow, someone never did their homework. About as "redneck" as Cleveland at the time....Cleveland's biggest suburb....Akron.....

By the time my class was ready for school, the shooting at Kent State, like Viet Nam, was a fading memory...of course, for those that never were in either....Kent State by the late 70's was still very much a "liberal arts" fare. Akron U was much more synthetics and routine business. That whole area had a certain liberal feel with the back drop of parents from the right....of course, this was a nationwide phenomena....long hair, custom vans, crappy pot that you had to burn your lungs out over to get stoned...sorta....coors beer if you could get it was a big deal (for the life of me, I can't imagine why other than it was so far away), drinking, and believe it or not, a fairly high cerebral output.

What the area lacked in glamor it made up for, to some extent, in brains. Just never looked the part. Again, you have to remember, this was a middle-class area for the most part festooned with rusting relics from GM and Ford....no rednecks need apply. It was an anti-gay, anti-establishment world. True Dichotomy. Like most of Ohio, parochial with a cool twist comes to mind.

Like what the Amish kids of the day wished they could be. People may have pushed back on the establishment but, you could count on seeing them in church on Sunday after being belted by their parents the night before for mischief, as needed. An noooooo one called the cops.

A place where kids played Euchre on crappy days of which there was NO shortage of. Where kids played outside, threw eggs at cars and houses, (okay, maybe a tad redneck) and basically made their own fun. Very, very.......60's......

A world in motion set off by the shootings. Very, very surreal at the time. Kent State, while liberal, was just not the place you would expect a powder keg to be lit off to that degree. Berkley? Columbia? dip**** u? Sure. KSU? Never. Less so at Akron U. And you have to remember, that part of the country is LOADED with universities. Youngstown State, Akron U, Kent State, John Carrol, Mount Union, Ashland, Case Western, Hiram, Bowling Green (as in Ohio, not Kentucky), Toledo University, Cleveland State, Slippery Rock, Clarion, and a few others I can't remember all within 100 miles or so of each other.

Ohio, like Pennsylvania, is LOADED with Division III schools commonly known as liberal arts colleges.

Plenty of colleges with young, impressionable minds. Wonder how liberal they are today? My guess, not a fraction as much as most campuses. No Sheldon Awards here. Not even relatively. So, to see a bunch of kids shooting at a bunch of OTHER kids with 30-06 rifles, close range, and only killing 4 tells you just how out of step they probably were with this kind of incident.

Redneck? Maybe to someone from the Hamptons, Manhattan, or newly minted Boston "gentry". Compared to the OTHER 99% of America? Not a chance. I live in the South. And with the exception of maybe Barberton and Uniontown, Northeast Ohio "don't know redneck". They actually fix their plumbing, keep the paint up, use rust buckets only in the winter, and generally "engineer" things to work...Duct tape is an afterthought.

Within 10 years, it had all moved on but, so did most of America. By 1980, Iran was all the rage and kids never thought to light a match to anything let, alone, a university, except for a faulty dwelling or business. What a difference a decade can make, huh?

I guess they, like most of America, had "evolved". Into what? I have nooooo idea.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:14 AM
 
Location: canada
294 posts, read 442,723 times
Reputation: 61
Yup, a decade makes a big difference. I was 10 when Kent happened. By 1980, even in Canada, I was part part of the wave of Reagan era, new conservative college kids wanting go one to grad school and live the good life with a Volvo and Polo golf clothes. All very Alex Keaton, to make an ohio reference.

And yet... I sense a new wave of radicalism in the grandchildren of those who were in college in 1970.

Yes, I do remember many references to "they should have killed them all " as coming from Barberton.

I hope to go to the 50 anniversary event as part of a trip to see the sights in Ohio.
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