Any thoughts on moving from California to Alabama (Birmingham, Montgomery: relocation, housing)

[suicidesamurai]

Originally Posted by zenjenn

What you are saying is consistent with what I've heard a lot of people say is true except in bigger cities like Huntsville or Birmingham. Prejudice would bother me too. I didn't see any evidence of it in Huntsville, though I *DID* experience a general willingness to talk about race a lot more frankly - whereas in California people are very politically correct and try not to mention anyone's race unless cornered into doing so. It's a mixed bag, both good and bad I think. I think it is admirable to strive for a colorblind society, but perhaps also disingenuous to walk around ignoring race when there are still very real issues that need to be addressed.

But generally I think it has more to do with being rural. People in rural areas (whether Alabama or California or anywhere else) are slower to adopt change. That can be good sometimes, and it can be bad sometimes. It's easier to be a bigot when you live in a tiny area where you don't interact with the people you hate on a daily basis. People who live in modern, larger cities HAVE to learn to accept differences or things would erupt in chaos. That is why people think living in a diverse area is desirable. If it's diverse, there's less bigotry, and what bigotry there might be, people have enough social pressure to keep it to themselves. One of my concerns of moving to the "Bible Belt" was that I am a Jew, but seeing how diverse Huntsville is I no longer have any concern. I am put at ease by seeing people of many different races and background walking around and interacting without incident.

People in more rural areas in CA are much like rural people in the South. Although when I grew up in a San Diego suburb city, there was plenty of racism, it just isn't out in the open. If a white girl did "things" with a black guy she would become a walking ethnic joke, and nobody wanted to be that girl. Many of my white friends would listen to rap music in the car and then say something about a group of "n*ggers" walking down the street, especially if they were near a KFC or Popeye's (for obvious reasons). The irony wasn't lost on me.

[djknight]

I agree, zenjenn - it has a lot to do with being rural, and for some of the reasons you listed. The incident with my sister-in-law, however, happened in Mobile so...

And yes, of course there is racism everywhere - if anyone says otherwise, well ... they are very naive. We've lived in a rural area of California, and I grew up in teeny-tiny town in New York, and it was there. But what I've run into here is a more hateful strain of racism. More sinister. It isn't just a matter of a flip comment about fried chicken - it's the sneer and the hate that accompanies it.

BUT...

Within their little communities the people of our town are all very nice and helpful to one another. As long as you stay in your place, don't have any African-American friends, go to church three times a week, don't drink (we were dry until this past week), don't cuss, and generally conform to their very narrow views of what is right and good, then you fit right in.

Problem is, I'm not a conformist. So I guess the issue is mine, not the community's

And on a positive note -- only because I think you should say something positive for every negative --

When Ivan ransacked our town and blew a tree on our brand new house, a group of men in a pick up truck pulled up with chain saws and hacked the monster limbs off our house, then went on to the next one. Not for money, not for thanks - because they thought they should.

And one time, several years ago, I left my keys hanging in my trunk lock at WalMart. When I got back to the car, they were laying on the passenger seat with a note that read, "You left these in your trunk." And in my center console was about twenty dollars in cash, my ipod, a digital camera and my cell phone. Untouched.

But still - all things being relative - the prejudice outweighs the random acts of kindness for me, personally. We're here for four more years, until our youngest graduates high school and they we're tuckin' tail and headed West.

Hey ... want to buy a house?

[VMH2507]

Zenjenn really nailed it. I have seen almost no racism in Huntsville. One of my circle of friends (~25 in group) is a black woman from CA. She has been in my home on numerous occassions and no eyebrows have been raised. I've never been to her house but only because she hasn't invited me. I would have no problem going to her house.
I think that because of the southern history, southerners are able to be more open in discussing race and personally I think it is a more healthy approach.

[djknight]

I agree VMH2507 -- to some extent. We lived in Selma for a couple of years. You don't talk about race in Selma.

A few ramblings ...

It’s impossible to classify the entire population of an entire state. How can we stereotype the personality of an entire state, when that state is made up of thousands of individuals, each drawing from their own upbringing and life experiences?

And that goes both ways -- a state cannot be completely open minded, nor can it be completely close minded. It is irresponsible to say, “Alabama is entirely racist” because there are rural pockets of extreme prejudice, such as there is in my area. But on the same hand, its irresponsible to say, “Racism doesn’t exist in Alabama,” because the truth is that it does.

BUT…

There are pros and cons to every region, of every nation, in the world. Neither Heaven nor Hell exists on Earth. The problem, as I see it, is that people approach those cultural perspectives that vary from their own - differences they do not understand - as “bad” rather than “different.”

For example: In New York, if you start tossing the “n” word around, you’ll quickly find yourself delegated to a social class normally reserved for lepers and hardened criminals. But you can use the “f” word in casual conversation, with total strangers, as a noun, adjective, verb … and sometimes a term of endearment. And while the visiting Southerner might turn purple from head to toe, no native New Yorker is going to bat a single eyelash.

Try that in the south, and you might as well pack your bags and check in to the local leper colony. But -- you can say your neighbor is an “n” word and nobody thinks twice about it, except for the visiting Yankee, who is turning apoplectic in the corner.

Which is right and which is wrong? Neither. It depends who you ask, because it’s totally a matter of cultural perspective.

And I’m not so sure it’s a good idea to try to change a person’s cultural perspective. Racism, yes of course -- but taking that out of the equation -- does anyone really want to approach a New Yorker for directions to Soho and hear “Well, bless your heart, let’s pray for guidance…” I don’t think so. Come on -- attitude is part of what makes New York unique.

What makes the world so interesting is that we are all different and that we approach things differently based, in part, on the region where we were raised, and the things we experienced growing up. Would the world really be a better place if everyone saw things from the same cultural perspective?

Personally, I think that would be very sad. We would lose so much and become so shallow - pale imitations of one another. How would we learn about different cultures, if they were all the same? More to the point, where on Earth would you go on vacation, to “get away” from the norm, if everyplace was exactly the same? I wouldn’t want to live in that world.

There was a thread around here somewhere, started by a man wanting to know if Southerners would have a problem with his wife, as she is heavily tattooed. He wasn’t being rude; he was being direct - he just approached the topic from his cultural perspective. As a Yankee, he is a forthright guy. Is that wrong? Or is it just different?

It seems to me that if more people were more accepting of each other’s differences, there would be a lot less anger and hatred in the world. Rather than being cultural tourists - taking snapshots and judging an entire region by that one, still photograph; how much better to be a cultural student - taking notes and discussing the experience with a sincere desire to learn about it.

Not everyone is going to find peace in the South. And not everyone will find it in the North or the West. There are too many variables to say. It is up to the individual to weigh them and see what works best for them. I think it’s a great idea to try out as many cultures as possible -- it makes life that much richer. Absorb what you like about an area and try to block out the rest.

In the end, if it doesn’t make you happy, wish everyone the best, pack up your fondest memories, and find your peace elsewhere.

[mp33]

As a few of you know, we just moved to Trussville (20 min. northeast of Bham) 2 weeks ago from Orange County, California, and I've been an on-and-off-again mess. I'm trying to figure out whether it's the area/town/culture/people that has me so perplexed and non-adjusted OR just that I left gobs of precious family and friends back in my native land (I know, I know...cry me a river).....because my problem certainly isn't our beautiful house with gigantic forested yard OR the "kudzu" (is that what it's called? I love that stuff no matter what the locals may say) OR the balmy nights OR the people who wave OR my children's great school OR the cute villages over in Mountain Brook OR the anticipation of a pretty fall OR my husband's great job WITHOUT financial stress OR even the noisy bug-filled nights with thunder in the background -- love it. Hmmm...everything else is just not me YET. I'm having a bad case of well-that's-not-how-we-did-that-in-Callifornia. Hang with me here, it's been only 2 weeks...if I sound a tad snooty then so-be-it. Even though I am close to Birmingham, my experience is that, even though I've met some, I haven't met very many transplants...most people are from HERE or just one state over. AND just as many people warmly welcomed us to the state, I also lost count over how many people here in Alabama wonder why-on-earth did I move away from California anyway -- come on, show some pride in your beautiful surroundings! The grass is always greener, I guess. Anyway...I was telling threestep that I met a woman who moved from Germany 4 years ago and it was so exciting to talk to her because she, like me, also didn't have Alabama-college-rivalry-on-the-brain nor did she joke about going honky tonkin' the night before. Yeah, what's with the whole college thing anyway? People are even already asking ME where I went to college and I'm like, "Cal State Fullerton, ever heard of it?" But hey, a focus in that direction throws off all poor education stereotypes. So! Yes...I have a few kinks to emotionally work out and will let you know in a few months how it's all going down. I do have a few ignorant and kinda-sorta opinions regarding the churches, prejudices, etc...good and bad thoughts...but no need to talk about something I haven't been around long enough to give a fair analysis.
Thanks for all the great threads on the subject!

[Southlander]

Hi mp33, glad to see you back on here again!
Hang in there, it will get better. You've taken on a LOT in moving. Give it at least a year! Once you figure out your favorite dry cleaners, find a dentist and a doctor, analyze all the grocery stores, etc...in other words, settle in, you'll feel better. As for that college thing...it's true, in Alabama you have to declare your loyalty to either Alabama or Auburn. Doesn't matter where you went to college or where you're from, LOL! We demand a declaration! (repeat after me: "Roll Tide. Roll Tide. Roll Tide.")

[zenjenn]

mp33, I am a fellow Cal State Fullerton alumni. Well, I did my first 2 years at UCLA and my second 2 at Cal State Fullerton - it's such a communter school, there's no sense of school pride at CSUF.

Anyways, I think if you move ANYWHERE it takes a good year for a place to start REALLY feeling like "home" - even if you just move 50 miles away.

[Robsinal]

I moved here about a year ago from Cali and I love Alabama (Land, Lakes, Rivers) and the cost of living but let me tell you the schools are the absolute worst. My kids had 2 classes last year with subs the entire year and they basically had to teach themselves. Alabama ranked 49th in a national review last year. They paddel your kids in school here no matter what age. They dont allow "grouping" in malls. I was shopping for clothes with my 2 daughters and a friend and was told by security that we had to split up because they did not allow groups of 3 or more in the mall. The people are really nice to your face but talk and gossip like mad behind your back. Its ok as long as they end it with "bless her heart". If you are not a free mason well then you are not right. I am a christian I am not religious. Here there are few christians but a lot of religious nuts. They go to church on sundays and talk so nice but will be the first to attend a klan rally on the weekend. There was a black teenager stabbed to death here last weekend by a son, father and a uncle ... all white... because the kid was dating a white girl. The kicker is they were playing in the church band a hour before they killed him in a baptist church. The high schools in our town were just desegregated 2 years ago. I cannot say enough about this state. Dont be fooled like I was. Cheaper is not always better. We live one hour west of Huntsville Al.
http://www.timesdaily.com/article/20...NEWS/708070331
Rob

[zenjenn]

I would suspect an hour west of Hunstville is a big difference from Hunstville itself. I spoke with a rabbi who was very forthright with me that Alabama's schools are "not the most sophisticated" statewide, but that in Huntsville there are excellent schools due to the highly educated staff and demographic. Rocket scientists and engineers have bright spouses that teach, and bright kids that attend school.

I have been told (warned?) by some that Hunstville is great but the rest of Alabama isn't. I'm not saying if that's true or not, but if it is, that's OK with me. I don't drive more than 20 mintues from my house here in California except to visit relatives and to go to Disneyland, so I dont' see much reason for me to affected by situations an hour away from Hsv. I mean, less than 30 minutes from me is one of the biggest gang hotbeds in the country, and a high school that is so awful that it was reported in the local paper that students have to go across the street to a Starbucks to use the bathroom because the school bathroom is smeared with excrement by vandal students on a daily basis, and almost every student there has at least witnessed a gang-related shooting. Yet the schools where I live are stellar and the crime is nil. A short distance can still be a BIG difference in school quality, crime rates, etc.

I honestly don't see living an hour away from klan members as any better or worse than living an hour away from the gangs. They are both equally useless in my book.

[Keeper]

Funny you should mention college football in AL. I met a lady who had just moved to N. AL and she said when she went to visit friends they all had a picture of this man in a checkered hat on their wall. Were they all related to him? Then someone told her he was the famous coach of Alabama "Bear Bryant" Now that is how serious some people take football here.