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How about making a coherent post? Let's see. A group of Indians make a political contribution to the GOP and you want to leave the state? How is that any different that you making a contribution to the Democrats?
What's more, given how the Republicans only gained control of the legislation this year for the first time since Reconstruction, I'm not sure how you can slam the Republicans for anything. Nope, the Democratic party ran this state as its own private little plantation for more than a century and people such as you and me suffered as a result. I am an independent, but your blind obedience to the Dems in this state shows an alarming lack of grasp when it comes to history.
First off, I don't support the democrats because they are weak and they let this crap go on. I support common sense, someone who is fair and wants to move this state forward. Reconstruction! ha, more like destruction. People I talk to everyday are not jumping for joy because republicans have control of the legislator.They want economic development but these guys are tied up in their social ideals. How many jobs have been created sense the republican takeover, there has been nothing but controversy. Nobody wants a job picking crops either, people want to advance and have a job that fits the 21st century. My comment about the Po arch creek casino is simply to point out the fact that in public these politicians demonize gaming while at the same are privately taking money from them. And people where I'm from who were gaining from the industry have been once again crush by the Alabama government.
Well, I think that's a reflective argument. However, I have to disagree with many of its points. Immigration is indeed a strength of this country. But there's a fundamental difference between allowing select numbers of people to enter the country when there is a available work and throwing the gates open when there is not.
What's more, I would argue that the most compelling value in all this debate is that we should be supporting people who already live here legitimately rather than someone who snuck in.
What's more, I think the 'kids in school' is a bit of a straw dog argument designed to sway fuzzy thinking based on emotion rather than logic. Those children are essentially beneficiaries of an illegal act, just the same as if Bernard Madoff's kids were allowed to keep his ill-gotten gains. Schools in Alabama are in proration right now because of the harsh economic times, and yet pro-illegals are actually supporting the notion that schools should be teaching children that do not have a legal right to be here in the first place. Not only that, but their thinking also supposes that we're supposed to spend taxpayer dollars to support the additional and costly services required to help illegal immigrant children learn in our school system. I'm sure that's pretty galling thing for a laid-off factory worker to swallow. To that person, it's not an abstract priniciple. It's their reality.
While I typically respect your posts, Blue, I don't agree with you on this one. Because the argument you voice actually has contributed to the wage depression and unemployment in this state, causing economic privation to people who have done nothing to deserve it.
I have sympathy for the factory worker and others that have undercut by illegal labor. But that happens for many reasons. And to point it on another person looking for work, rather than the employer, is misplaced. Furthermore, like I said before, this is what e-verify and those types of the law would be for. I am not against those parts nearly as much.
I would also state that improved productivity (automation and other improvements), free-trade, and other such issues have had equally large impacts. And like I said, laws would at least be able to be enforced if immigrants would be allowed to immigrated legally. I would get angry if people from a certain state got angry when out-of-state people came and "took their jobs". The difference between interstate and international immigration is more of a lake, rather than an ocean for me.
It's hard for me to not sway too much into the general argument, but I will try to keep it Alabama-specific.
Putting aside the "right"ness and "wrong"ness of the illegal immigrants, I do believe that the education portion is the most unfair and not in the best interests of the state. I don't believe children should be held for their parent's "sins". Comparing it to Bernie Madoff doesn't quite hold for me do to the difference in the levels. Bernie Madoff's children will get to go to school no matter what. I believe a minimum level of care should be available to all, especially children, who reside in the country. This includes education. Furthermore, to further withhold education from anyone living in the state might further create that permanent uneducated underclass, which seems to be a part of the general argument (admittedly not brought up by anyone else here before I just did).
Furthermore, I believe laws should have a certain amount of emotion built into them. The purpose of laws are for the betterment of people.
As for how "poor" the state is, that's a whole other issue. I'll just say that there are other areas in the world with similar average incomes that do well enough in sectors like education. I don't think its necessary to (further) divide children into separate have and have-not groups to deliver education. I don't think that's the problem here.
Like I said, I think it really just comes don't to a value issue. Who do you see as the "other". What are your life experiences and who have you known as friends and acquaintances. Humans love to categorize, which has allowed us to come as far as we have, but in some social circumstances can be very detrimental.
CPG I don't necessarily disagree or think you're wrong, but I really get miffed when people in Alabama bring up taxes. I don't even work, and I'm positive beyond a shadow of any doubt that I pay more taxes than 99% of of Alabamians. More tax dollars go into Alabama than come out, so people there really have little to complain about.
CPG I don't necessarily disagree or think you're wrong, but I have I really get miffed when people in Alabama bring up taxes. I don't even work, and I'm positive beyond a shadow of any doubt that I pay more taxes than 99% of of Alabamians. More tax dollars go into Alabama than come out, so that just really bothers me.
But the disparity of taxes has nothing to do with the question at hand. And, to be honest, a historically poor state such as Alabama has had to rely on the Federal government, chiefly because increasing state taxes might actually hurt the economy. I mean, if you say a poor person deserves more Federal help than a rich person, then why wouldn't you draw a similar analogy with the states? And if a state such as Alabama necessarily has to keep taxes low, why would you want to commit precious revenue to support people who don't have any legal right to be here in the first place? It's not like these are legal U.S. citizens moved here from, say, Detroit to chase automotive jobs. Instead, they are people who have entered the country without the express approval of the Federal government, set down roots, and then started competing for local jobs.
I have never seen anyone leave anywhere in a drove.
I'm in more or less agreement as well, but I understand that it is a horrible fate on others if completely enforced, at the same time it is a slap at the Federalies for not doing their job. Que sera sera.
Federalies are gonna need more of your money if you want them to focus more on that aspect of the laws on foreign and inter-state immagration control.
really? i cant get past all the sob stories on the English stations... And I very much doubt a state like Alabama attracts any people anyway.
You're just a college student. What you know about employment, Alabama, or illegal immigration would fit on the head of a pin.
Tell you what, my pious friend. Why don't you hop in your car and drive down to the nearest employment office, walk up to a guy who's been laid off from his job at the factory or the construction site and tell him that you support both the rights of illegals to stay in this country and compete for work? While you're at it, tell that same blue collar worker that you think the downward wage pressures by the illegals is a pretty good thing.
But the disparity of taxes has nothing to do with the question at hand. And, to be honest, a historically poor state such as Alabama has had to rely on the Federal government, chiefly because increasing state taxes might actually hurt the economy. I mean, if you say a poor person deserves more Federal help than a rich person, then why wouldn't you draw a similar analogy with the states? And if a state such as Alabama necessarily has to keep taxes low, why would you want to commit precious revenue to support people who don't have any legal right to be here in the first place? It's not like these are legal U.S. citizens moved here from, say, Detroit to chase automotive jobs. Instead, they are people who have entered the country without the express approval of the Federal government, set down roots, and then started competing for local jobs.
I don't necessarily think anyone "deserves" help. Rich or poor, ideally we should all make our own way. Again, ideally. But frankly, businesses in Alabama pay nothing for taxes - especially property taxes. Alabama would have an increase in revenue if they would just change the tax structure to something realistic. Alabama, along with some of the other Deep South states, are poor because of their own doing. I know this is besides the point, but I think it must be said.
Also, I fully understand that there are always going to be those that have and those that have not. It's just the nature of life. Unless McDonald's starts paying $12.00 an hour or something. But, I honestly feel like there is large segment of American people that feel jobs like McDonald's and the aforementioned chicken processing plant are beneath them. If it wasn't true, we wouldn't have this issue of Hispanic people taking these jobs. To them, I think they feel a job is a job. I can't say the same thing about Americans. When it comes down to it, I'm ALWAYS going to side with the hardworking illegal immigrant over the lazy, self-absorbed, think they're super special American. I don't know what that makes me, but that's just how I feel.
I don't necessarily think anyone "deserves" help. Rich or poor, ideally we should all make our own way. Again, ideally. But frankly, businesses in Alabama pay nothing for taxes - especially property taxes. Alabama would have an increase in revenue if they would just change the tax structure to something realistic. Alabama, along with some of the other Deep South states, are poor because of their own doing. I know this is besides the point, but I think it must be said.
Also, I fully understand that there are always going to be those that have and those that have not. It's just the nature of life. Unless McDonald's starts paying $12.00 an hour or something. But, I honestly feel like there is large segment of American people that feel jobs like McDonald's and the aforementioned chicken processing plant are beneath them. If it wasn't true, we wouldn't have this issue of Hispanic people taking these jobs. To them, I think they feel a job is a job. I can't say the same thing about Americans. When it comes down to it, I'm ALWAYS going to side with the hardworking illegal immigrant over the lazy, self-absorbed, think they're super special American. I don't know what that makes me, but that's just how I feel.
Sorry you have such contempt for your erstwhile fellow citizens. But let me tackle the other points one by one.
"But frankly, businesses in Alabama pay nothing for taxes - especially property taxes." As a business owners for the past 17 years, that's news to me. I have to pay privilege taxes, payroll taxes, ad valorem taxes, SUI, et al. What's more, as an LLC my businesses net profits are reflected in my personal return. The same would be true if I were a subchapter S.
"Alabama, along with some of the other Deep South states, are poor because of their own doing." Actually this has changed pretty radically over the past 15 years. As a matter of fact, if trends continue, Alabama is due to pass Michigan in per capita income in the next couple of years. Because of their own doing.
"Unless McDonald's starts paying $12.00 an hour or something. But, I honestly feel like there is large segment of American people that feel jobs like McDonald's and the aforementioned chicken processing plant are beneath them." See, this argument actually proves my point. You might not remember this, but before the big influx of illegals into the state, there was actually close to full employment, with unemployment dipping down into the 2.5% range in many areas. Because of the labor shortages, I saw a McDonald's hiring help starting at $11/hour and a Shop-A-Snak hiring counter help for $25K a year with full benefits. But when you flood the market with illegal labor willing to undercut local citizens, you automatically preclude ordinary working class folks from making that kind of money, in effect denying them a living.
Recently, I have been reading myriad of stories about illegal immigrant workers, who have succeeded when given a break. One recently, became a Nobel Prize Winner.
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Alabama give them a break
