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Old 01-23-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
5,743 posts, read 4,078,952 times
Reputation: 4180

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedriskell View Post
Actually each state has vastly different mixes of industry. Alabama has a HUGE auto industry, different from Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida. Florida relies HEAVILY on tourism, while Alabama's tourism is just a nice supplement to our main industries. Mississippi gets a larger proportion of their revenues from agriculture than Alabama does. Tennessee also receives more revenue from tourism than Alabama. Alabama gets more revenue from hi tech industry than Mississippi.

Southeastern states have vastly different mixes of industry, tax codes, levels of urbanity, and widely varying populations. You really can't compare two states side by side and assume that they're similar in employment. Georgia and Florida have suffered greatly from foreclosures and over building in the housing industry, while Alabama's housing market is markedly more stable.

There are so many more things that go into predicting (which you can never really do) economic success.
Although I don't doubt what you are saying, I find it amusing that your post (and a few others in this thread) are actually offering praise for Alabama's economy and its ability to improve and thrive in a tough economy that has so many other states on the ropes. Even if it is in a semi-backhanded sort of way. Usually when it is time to rank states for something positive people will find every reason they can to talk about how bad Alabama is, how slow, how backward, how pitiful etc etc. But in order to keep from giving credit to something so controversial and perhaps so negative to some people (HB56) it seems some people will go out of their way to give Alabama credit for bucking the trend and doing it on its own through just hard work, dedication and dare I say it, good leadership.
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Old 01-23-2012, 10:44 AM
 
Location: AL
2,437 posts, read 1,382,522 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reactionary View Post
Praise Obama!

/s
LOL your funny...

Why is it so hard for you to believe that HB56 is helping?
Get rid of illegals and the jobless rate will fall.

Its been done before...Operation w*tback 1954 and it WORKED!
What about all our troops who will be returning..I'm sure they would like a job.

Last edited by kerrymac; 01-23-2012 at 10:53 AM..
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Old 01-23-2012, 01:39 PM
 
3,253 posts, read 5,181,909 times
Reputation: 1897
/s means sarcasm

I fully support HB56 and the legislators who passed it.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:16 PM
 
Location: AL
2,437 posts, read 1,382,522 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reactionary View Post
/s means sarcasm

I fully support HB56 and the legislators who passed it.
LOL oh I'm not up on the computer sign lingo.
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Old 01-23-2012, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
234 posts, read 444,578 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Although I don't doubt what you are saying, I find it amusing that your post (and a few others in this thread) are actually offering praise for Alabama's economy and its ability to improve and thrive in a tough economy that has so many other states on the ropes. Even if it is in a semi-backhanded sort of way. Usually when it is time to rank states for something positive people will find every reason they can to talk about how bad Alabama is, how slow, how backward, how pitiful etc etc. But in order to keep from giving credit to something so controversial and perhaps so negative to some people (HB56) it seems some people will go out of their way to give Alabama credit for bucking the trend and doing it on its own through just hard work, dedication and dare I say it, good leadership.
...... Yea, I actually believe that the reason that Alabama's economy is improving so much is because the work of leaders and legislators that relentlessly recruited industry before HB 56 was ever introduced into the state legislature. I'm not attempting to avoid giving it credit, I simply do not think that such a large drop in unemployment is due to that bill. There is no possible way HB 56 had that massive of an impact on our unemployment numbers.

Frankly, I'm confused about your post, but either way, I'll say that Alabama's unemployment rate has more to do with our tax code and economic agility than anything. Our economy is increasingly based upon industries that rise and fall in unison with the economy (autos, shipping, energy, transportation). The only way I would find the HB 56 effect a valid argument is if you could somehow correlate it with the improvement in the national economy.

BTW, I am conservative and I do not decidedly support HB 56 (AKA, I'm on the fence). So, I see no reason why I would try to AVOID crediting the bill. Rather, I think that Alabama's economy is seriously that resilient, as it always has been.

Some of Alabama's highest growth, both economically and population wise, has come after times of economic instability. Alabama's current unemployment trends do nothing but corroborate that fact.
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Old 01-23-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
5,743 posts, read 4,078,952 times
Reputation: 4180
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedriskell View Post
Frankly, I'm confused about your post, but either way, I'll say that Alabama's unemployment rate has more to do with our tax code and economic agility than anything.
Well, I guess you would be if you are honestly a person who thinks Alabama has had good leadership up until this and that our state's economy is at least as good as if not better then most every other state in the union. And on top of that have always had something good and positive to say about it/them.

In my experience in reading comments on this board and on al.com, there are more pundits out there who seem to post the most negative thing possible, even if it is contradictory to what they've said before.

Quote:
I simply do not think that such a large drop in unemployment is due to that bill. There is no possible way HB 56 had that massive of an impact on our unemployment numbers.
I don't agree with this, although I'm open to seeing more studies and evidence to the contrary. It seems an unlikely coincidence that right at the same time the bill goes in to affect, the unemployement drops. If someone could point out where Mercedes, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai suddenly hired that many more works or where US Steel, ACIPCO or whoever suddenly posted that many hirings, then I would see where you are coming from. But what is more likely to me is that all the restaurants, dry cleaners, hotels, shopping centers, malls, cleaning services, porters, etc etc suddenly had to fill positions because of thousands of illegals fleeing the state.

Not saying would. But I swear, if unempolyment WAS NOT dropping, or if it were slower then the national average, there would be posts saying "Ah HA! HB56 did not work, bad legislation is bad and has FAILED." Very few would lay the blame at the feet of our leadership for their deeds in other areas.
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Old 01-23-2012, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
234 posts, read 444,578 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Well, I guess you would be if you are honestly a person who thinks Alabama has had good leadership up until this and that our state's economy is at least as good as if not better then most every other state in the union. And on top of that have always had something good and positive to say about it/them.

In my experience in reading comments on this board and on al.com, there are more pundits out there who seem to post the most negative thing possible, even if it is contradictory to what they've said before.



I don't agree with this, although I'm open to seeing more studies and evidence to the contrary. It seems an unlikely coincidence that right at the same time the bill goes in to affect, the unemployement drops. If someone could point out where Mercedes, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai suddenly hired that many more works or where US Steel, ACIPCO or whoever suddenly posted that many hirings, then I would see where you are coming from. But what is more likely to me is that all the restaurants, dry cleaners, hotels, shopping centers, malls, cleaning services, porters, etc etc suddenly had to fill positions because of thousands of illegals fleeing the state.

Not saying would. But I swear, if unempolyment WAS NOT dropping, or if it were slower then the national average, there would be posts saying "Ah HA! HB56 did not work, bad legislation is bad and has FAILED." Very few would lay the blame at the feet of our leadership for their deeds in other areas.
Well, as for that last paragraph, I wouldn't be one of those people.

As for the auto employment... Mercedes, Honda, Toyota, and Hyundai have all had workers returning to work after auto sales have continued to rise from their low point at 468,000 during the recession. By early December 2011, output had reached 677,000. Hyundai's capacity is 300,000 and by early December 2011 had reached 317,000. Mercedes plans to add it's C-class by 2015, and work is ongoing on the construction of expansions of the main plant (which will eventually employ about 4,500) and the suppliers that surround it.

Mercedes announced in late November 2011 that it would add a 3rd shift in order to increase output capacity to 185,000 in 2012.

For the above two paragraphs: LINK

Also in November 2011, Honda announced it would increase capacity output from 300,000 to 340,000. Also, remember that Honda is adding assembly lines (LINK).

The Port of Alabama is also expecting to take in almost $20 Million more than the previous fiscal year. This is largely due to shipping from new and expanded industries like Nucor, ThyssenKrupp, etc... LINK

Austal USA also broke ground last year (March 2011) in Mobile on an expansion that will add about 2,000 more workers once finished. No doubt, this allowed for an increase in construction spending and related employment. LINK

Also in August of 2011, the University of Alabama and Auburn University recorded their largest student populations in their histories. AUBURN LINK BAMA LINK

Alabama's foreclosure rate is significantly lower than the national average. About 3 times lower than that of the rest of the US. Alabama has 1 foreclosure for every 1,945 houses, while the national average is 1:634. LINK (You can look at that link if you want to see how the state compares to others nationwide.)

Additionally, we had about $4 Billion of damage in Alabama from the April tornadoes. It is expected that recovery will inject about $5 Billion in to the state economy and it is not unreasonable to assume that the recovery has given and will give the state a significant economic boost as we continue to rebuild.

I can go on and on, and I'm sure you can go on and on about ways that I'm wrong. The fact is, we'll never really know. It's nearly impossible to tell. Either way, it is ridiculous to peg such a dramatic drop in unemployment on a single law.

As for our leadership, I never said our leaders were spectacular until Bentley's administration. If I did, please tell me, cause that isn't what I intended to say. Rather, what my post said was that they tirelessly recruited industry and investments to our state, and those efforts are paying off in extraordinary fashion. It's like a football coach (IE: Ed Orgeron at Ole Miss) who can recruit the heck out of great high school talent, but it doesn't mean he/she is a great coach. Of course, industry is different because it operates independently and is allowed to profit off of things that it does, but I think you get what I'm saying.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
5,743 posts, read 4,078,952 times
Reputation: 4180
I don't see how more students and announced plans for factories that are just breaking ground would add a significant number of jobs. The factories will eventually, but if they haven't opened yet - how does that help?

Also, the auto plants have been in a slump. The imports try not to lay people off so they can always look good in the press against the domestics, but I don't think they have added people now that auto sales are growing - I think they've just taken back their people they've had on paid vacations or out planting trees or doing training and haven't added many more.

But in the end, I at least agree with you that other factors already in play have helped. I just believe that HB56 is what has caused us to be that much better at putting people back to work faster. If I am not mistaken, you seem to not want to give the law any credit at all for putting people back to work. Right or wrong?

Last edited by Tourian; 01-26-2012 at 02:27 PM..
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Tuscaloosa, Alabama
234 posts, read 444,578 times
Reputation: 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I don't see how more students and announced plans for factories that are just breaking ground would add a significant number of jobs. The factories will eventually, but if they haven't opened yet - how does that help?

Also, the auto plants have been in a slump. The imports try not to lay people off so they can always look good in the press against the domestics, but I don't think they have added people now that auto sales are growing - I think they've just taken back their people they've had on paid vacations or out planting trees or doing training and haven't added many more.

But in the end, I at least agree with you that other factors already in play have helped. I just believe that HB56 is what has caused us to be that much better at putting people back to work faster. If I am not mistaken, you seem to not want to give the law any credit at all for putting people back to work. Right or wrong?
I give it some credit. I just don't think it has had such a substantial effect on our unemployment rate.

Our auto plants are no longer in a slump. In 2010, output was at 698,000 and peak output was 739,000 in 2007. As of Dec 11, 2011, the total number manufactured was 677,000, which easily makes for more than 700,000 by the end of the year. Our plants are expected to reach an output of around 900,000 within the next few years. The amount of jobs that go into constructing factories, training employees, supplying things to actually build those buildings and supporting infrastructure are important job sectors that have a tremendous effect on tax bases and local spending.

Though, I think we both generally agree that the law has had at least some effect. We just differ in how much.
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Old 01-27-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
5,743 posts, read 4,078,952 times
Reputation: 4180
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedriskell View Post
Our auto plants are no longer in a slump.
I get that, which is what I was saying in my last post. I should have said "used to be" However, I don't think they added new workers so much as they've gotten more productivity out of what they had. Because they are very careful not to lay people off because it is bad publicity. They know the media loves to villify the domestic companies and the unions and the imports want to portray the stigma that they don't lay people off but put them to work in the community or have them doing training, blah blah blah.

But I do see we are about on the same page. I do give credit to the natural growth of Alabama's economy due to the fact that the nation's economy is slowly crawling back - and the fact that because we aren't a boom or bust state, maybe we shouldn't experience the wild swings that a Detroit/Michigan would or Las Vegas/Nevada or California would - but because of that, I wouldn't expect us to make any headlines about leading the nation in reducing unemployment (or at least trending that way) but since we seem to be, I'd look to some other outside force that makes us different from every other state - which in my mind has to be HB56.
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