[dijkstra]

I am in agreement with cpg35223 on all points. It is a real pain dealing with child care for all the miscellaneous breaks with the schedule the schools have been using. What is even more aggravating is when you have another child from a previous relationship that goes to school in a city within the same county you other children go to school in and all their breaks are at different times. I have had to deal with that nonsense for years and it pisses me off every year to say the least. This is the exact reason there should be one central school administration. It at least eliminates some of the disorganization and waste.

I would be 100% behind a bill that mandated eliminating city and county school administrations and going to a district plan. It would save millions as well as reducing disorganization between the multiple school systems in each county but that is a debate for another thread.

Back on topic, in high school I worked during the summers and saved enough money to buy my first car as well as many electronic gadgets I just had to have at the time. I learned the importance of a strong work ethic as well as many other skills that have been with me ever since. Of course back then, we didn't start school until after labor day so I almost 4 months of work each summer. Now with the schedule they have been using, they only have about 2 1/2 months at most. A lot of employers don't even hire high school teenagers for summer work anymore because by the time they hire them, and get them trained, they only get a few weeks of decent work out of them.

zenjenn, I am still a little puzzled as to why this change is such an issue for a girl scout troop. If you had activities planned for August, they would have been planned around school, which means they would be in the evenings or on the weekends. How does the fact that kids will not be in school affect that in any way.....wait....unless their parents are now planning to go on a beach vacation to Gulf Shores or Orange Beach during that time now.
You are obviously in different circles than many of us because most of the people I know support this change and actually were hoping for the start back date to be after labor day as was mentioned when this bill was first introduced.

[zenjenn]

The problem with all these additional days off scattered throughout the school year is the difficulties and inconveniences posed on families where both parents work. This is something that educators really never consider.

First, this is a common reaction that comes from the very misguided perspective that a school function is to provide childcare. It's not. That it serves as supervision for children while they are being educated may be an added bonus for parents, but it is NOT the job of the state to supervise children. That is the sole responsibility of parents, to either supervise their own children or delegate that responsibility to another responsible party at their own expense. I'm sorry if it's a pain, but kids can be a pain. That's part of being a parent, and it's not the state's role to universally alleviate parental hassles.

At least if you have a longer summer break, you can make long-term arrangements with camps and college kids out of school at the same time.

The same facilities that offer summer camps almost always capitalize on the opportunity to offer camps for breaks, too. At least that's the case here in Huntsville. If this is not the case in other localities, that's a fantastic argument for allowing local control. Here in Huntsville, the YMCA, Sci-Quest, Burritt on the Mountain, Gyms, Dojos, etc, all offer camps for school breaks, just as they do for the summer.

Really? Who wants to be out of school in the middle of Febraury. What exactly is there to do?

For one thing, the opportunity to take a vacation at a FRACTION of the cost of taking a vacation during peak summer times. This translates to financial savings for families, or the opportunity to take a trip when they might not normally afford to do so. Or, an opportunity for a winter vacation destination, like a ski vacation - often not feasible during the time off in December due to family obligations. And, even if you're staying home - this is Alabama. It's not like we're under 10 feet of ice in February, so I'm not sure that argument holds. Arguably August in Alabama is FAR more miserable for outdoor activities than February. (Of course, this is part of a year-round school discussion which is a bit tangential, but I thought I'd respond anyways.)

Further, there is an assumption that kids get out of school in May and stare a hole in the television until school reconvenes in August. My kids are in camps, mission trips, and a host of other activities.

So are my kids, but I've found that the 10 weeks they have is ample time to do these things.

Of course, to each their own, which is why I'd rather see these things decided locally.

[Reactionary]

It's too cold to go swimming in February, and August is the best time for swimming since the water has warmed up.

dijkstra makes a good point about kids being on the same schedule across local school boundaries. Back in my day, the all-powerful AEA essentially decided school calendars for the State (i.e., Spring Break was known as AEA week and it applied statewide). I don't mind the State legislature setting general policy for schools; it is part of their job, after all.

[zenjenn]

August is the best time for swimming since the water has warmed up.

Are you kidding? Our community pool is *vacant* in August. The water is the temperature of spit, and not at all refreshing. Our pool is much more popular in the spring and early summer.

dijkstra makes a good point about kids being on the same schedule across local school boundaries.

Based on that logic, we might as well have the federal Department of Education determine the schedule for the whole nation. Many communities straddle state boundaries, after all.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by zenjenn

First, this is a common reaction that comes from the very misguided perspective that a school function is to provide childcare. It's not. That it serves as supervision for children while they are being educated may be an added bonus for parents, but it is NOT the job of the state to supervise children. That is the sole responsibility of parents, to either supervise their own children or delegate that responsibility to another responsible party at their own expense. I'm sorry if it's a pain, but kids can be a pain. That's part of being a parent, and it's not the state's role to universally alleviate parental hassles.

Well, first of all, I realize you don't probably mean to come off as condescending, but it sure as heck reads that way. In no sense of the word do I look upon school as a glorified daycare. Neither do the vast majority of parents, and certainly none who are responding on this thread. To imply that we actually consider school as a way to slough off our kids on someone else does not really help what has been heretofore a nice exchange of views. Heck, why not throw out the unspoken supposition behind your point, namely that we're all a bunch of barefoot hayseeds too afflicted by pellagra to understand the purpose of education? Because your attempt to enlighten me on the role of education smacks of that kind of attitude. And lecture me one more time about the onerous duties of parenting and this formerly civil exchange of views will get ugly rather quickly. Given that I have a 17-, 15-, and 13-year-old, I'm pretty sure I've done an okay job so far without your edifying me on the subject.

Now, getting back to the point I think you're trying to make, schools most certainly should take into account the working lives of parents when making up their schedules. I realize that educators live in a bubble detached from the rest of the world, which means they largely don't understand the lives of the parents. What's more, the issue of off days isn't an issue to them, for they get to be off from their jobs with pay when their children are. However, the reality is that most households are two-income houses, sometimes by choice but mostly by necessity, and don't have the luxury of their professional schedules and childcare schedules working in perfect synchronization. And to blithely sprinkle off days throughout the year like so much pixie dust makes the jobs of parents that much tougher. Therefore, the legislation is an attempt to introduce a note of reality to a profession that often operates in defiance of it.

The same facilities that offer summer camps almost always capitalize on the opportunity to offer camps for breaks, too. At least that's the case here in Huntsville. If this is not the case in other localities, that's a fantastic argument for allowing local control. Here in Huntsville, the YMCA, Sci-Quest, Burritt on the Mountain, Gyms, Dojos, etc, all offer camps for school breaks, just as they do for the summer.

To a very limited point, yes. But, as someone speaking from personal experience, these mini camps are nowhere nearly as plentiful nor available as during the summer. Why? Because the summertime camps are largely staffed by college students who are off at college during the rest of the year. So it means fewer options for the parents which means more parents are inconvenienced while more kids spend their days in front of the idiot box. What's more, you're speaking of Huntsville where abundant resources exist. What about more rural communities where those kinds of options don't exist at all?

For one thing, the opportunity to take a vacation at a FRACTION of the cost of taking a vacation during peak summer times. This translates to financial savings for families, or the opportunity to take a trip when they might not normally afford to do so. Or, an opportunity for a winter vacation destination, like a ski vacation - often not feasible during the time off in December due to family obligations. And, even if you're staying home - this is Alabama. It's not like we're under 10 feet of ice in February, so I'm not sure that argument holds. Arguably August in Alabama is FAR more miserable for outdoor activities than February. (Of course, this is part of a year-round school discussion which is a bit tangential, but I thought I'd respond anyways.)

Really? I think I can pretty much speak for everybody else here that we don't want to go to the beach or the lake or the mountains when it's forty degrees out, thanks, even if it were free. Hell, even Disney World can get pretty chilly in February. And that you are honest-to-God supposing that most Alabamians can afford to schlepp a family of four or five out to Aspen to go skiing (During peak season, no less) strikes me as unrealistic. At least during the summer, kids can play outside.

The school year in Alabama is 180 days. There is simply no good reason why it can't take place between mid-August and the end of September. Year-round school was not the panacea that some educators hoped it would be, introducing higher costs without enjoying any corresponding gains in student progress. The mini holidays are gigantic pains in the arse for two-income families faced with a paucity of options for kids.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by zenjenn

Are you kidding? Our community pool is *vacant* in August. The water is the temperature of spit, and not at all refreshing. Our pool is much more popular in the spring and early summer.

There's a good reason for that. Most kids are either in marching band, cheerleading, or football practice by that time. The University of Alabama starts classes the second week of August. Auburn isn't much behind that. Move the schedule up, and the pool will be half empty by mid-July.

[Reactionary]

zenjenn - Southerners go to the beach (or swim) because it's hot. I know that I prefer warm water, although I have gone swimming in the Tennessee River in January. The pools, creeks, rivers, lakes, and Gulf don't really warm up until July or so. We're not a bunch of cold water loving Californians or Canadians. For example, when I lived in Boston, people would go to the Cape because it was cooler at the shore (?). I stuck my feet in the water and got out because it was cold - at the same time, a carload of Canadians came running into the water because it was warm to them.

[zenjenn]

Well, as a homeschooling parent, my kids will resume their education in August, when its far too muggy outside to be enjoyable as far as I'm concerned. (Also having educated my own kids, I know that the "summer slide" business is NO JOKE. I generally keep my kids doing math and writing daily unless there is camp or a holiday or something else firmly occupying the time, because even a week or two of neglecting those subjects results in a loss of progress, gets worse with time. They are attending a month of summer camp and I'll give them a week to unwind once they are home and then it's time to resume their education.

[dijkstra]

OMG! Your kids are home schooled and you are complaining about a bill that affects public schools. lol

When I was a kid we stayed outside all day long in August and usually went to the city pool along with hundreds of other kids. Of course, our kids have been on a school bus sweating like dogs every afternoon in August for years.
We have always preferred going to the beach in August or around Labor day when the water is nice and warm. I hate the cool water and for that reason can't stand the East coast beaches such as Daytona.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by zenjenn

Well, as a homeschooling parent, my kids will resume their education in August, when its far too muggy outside to be enjoyable as far as I'm concerned. (Also having educated my own kids, I know that the "summer slide" business is NO JOKE. I generally keep my kids doing math and writing daily unless there is camp or a holiday or something else firmly occupying the time, because even a week or two of neglecting those subjects results in a loss of progress, gets worse with time. They are attending a month of summer camp and I'll give them a week to unwind once they are home and then it's time to resume their education.

Wait a minute. You don't even participate in the public school system and you're holding forth on what schedule our families should adhere to in the education of our children? You've lost all credibility here, ZJ.