[stx12499]

Ever hear of the KY Derby? Louisville is in the national spotlight every year for that and gets written up in every major paper in the country. Since when are the NY Times and Dallas Morning News authorities on cities any more than the sources I cited? Did you READ my links? You do realize that many major papers have travel guides and virtually any city gets written up?

What's Doing In; Louisville - New York Times

Louisville Travel Guide - Hotels, Restaurants, Sightseeing in Louisville - New York Times Travel

http://theater2.nytimes.com/2005/04/...sions/Kentucky

I mean, seriously, a simple google search with "Louisville" and "New York Times" will produce thousands of articles. Same for any of teh other sources you think are so reliable. I cited articles from Atlanta and DC. Are they inferior to Dallas? How about Chicago? Whats more, since Birmingham has ZERO major sports venues, it hardly EVER gets mentioned in the national media. Louisville may not have pros but its flagship university brings it lots of attention for sports unlike UAB.

So you really think Birmingham is anywhere close to Louisville in development? I didn't want to have to do this, but here goes:

There are 112 floors of LUXURY condos CURRENTLY under construction in towers. This does not include all the projects in the 4-8 story range, and I will try my best to list many of those.

Museum Plaza

This one project is larger and more vibrant than all of downtown Birmingham. I am not sure why you can't see this, but oh well. 62 floors of luxury condos, office space, Westin hotel, shopping, dining, and a rotating contemporary arts Museum 26 floors in the air.

RiverPark Louisville Kentucky, Lofts and Luxury Condos

Goody Clancy: RiverPark Place Master Plan

32 floors in twin towers in Phase 1. Also two five story loft buildings in Phase 1. Phases 2 and 3 will introduce at least 4 more condo towers, each at least 16 stories high, and about four more 5 story buildings. The largest marina on the Ohio River will be here, and it will be one of the most luxurious inland marina's in the country. Restuarants and retail will locate on the river here.

Seminary Woods - Luxury Living in Louisville

11 Floor luxury Condo tower

Center City District

LouisvilleKy.gov - 2007 - $250 Million Plan To Build Housing, Retail, Office District Downtown

15-30 story luxury condo tower with at least 400 units.

Just announced, this 6 block development will have high end retail and condos to compliment the existing restaurants and entertainment you will never find in dowtown Birmingham, like Hard Rock Cafe, Hard Rock Hotel, Hard Rock Casino, Hard Rock Live, and Hard Rock Rock Shop. Hard Rock Home. and LUCKY STRIKE LANES It will also renovate a small arena to be a concert venue.

ZirMed - News Item

Zirmed Gateway Towers
12 floors

Another mixed use with a headquarters for a fast growing health industry company and luxury condos in the top.

Embassy Suites Downtown and Proposed Condo Tower (rumored around 20 floors)

Hotel could get adjacent condo and parking tower


Kentucky Home Life Building:

19 floor historic highrise, currently under conversion to office condos and residential condos at the top.

Office, residential condos planned at Kentucky Home Life Building - Business First of Louisville:

Kentucky Towers Apartments:

18 floors, currently under massive renovation after purchased by a New York investor:

Kentucky Towers undergoing $3.5 million in renovations - Business First of Louisville:


Other downtown stuff:

Louisville Arena Authority

$250 Million dollar arena currently under construction, 15 stories high with 72 luxury suites. Oh, by the way, McCormick and Schmick's will locate here ina restaurant overlooking the river. Also, Fleming's is looking hard at a suburban mall. But who needs these places when Louisville has restaurants that blow them away like this FOUR DIAMOND Seafood place?

Z's Oyster Bar & Steakhouse


Iron Quarter | Louisville, KY

15 story office tower, 120,000 square feet of luxury lifestyle shopping

Haymarket Life Sciences park, with associated apporx 10 story twin towers:

Making hay: Haymarket project would represent nearly $300 million investment on East Jefferson - Business First of Louisville:

2.5 BILLION invested just in the life sciences park downtown:

Governor announces $2.5 billion plan to benefit Louisville’s health sciences development :: News :: University of Louisville -- dare to be great

Welcome to Waterfront Park!

WaterfrontPark phase 3 and associated pedestrian bridge to Indiana.

Fairfield Inn & Suites Louisville Downtown: Earn Rewards points and stay productive when traveling to Louisville

317 rooms in twin 8 and 5 story buildings currently under construction for Fairfield Inn and Spring Hill Suites by Marriot.

Some "smaller projects"

Ice House Lofts

7 floors, and 5 floors. 52 units.

Fleur de Lis on Main - The Cornerstone of Downtown Living

5 floors. 82 units under construction now

the Mercantile

5 floors 4 floors, under construction

liberty green

6 city blocks of apartments and condos downtown with over 400 units, currently under construction

Bycks Lofts

4 floors

Gallery Square Lofts

Central Park Lofts

I mean, this list could go on for pages but I will quit here. All this, except Seminary woods, is in our downtown area. This does NOT include other nearby urban areas like Butchertown, Highlands, Crescent Hill, etc, which have their own infill projects. Just a couple examples of some Highlands infill:

The Cherokee Grande • Residential Properties • Jefferson Development Group

or the 6 floor Park Grande, just completed

The Park Grande • Residential Properties • Jefferson Development Group


Whew, I didnt come close to covering everything downtown, but I tried to list the bigger projects. And this does not count what ALREADY exists, which is already twice the urban options that you would find compared to a Birmingham. Then you have urban in the suburbs communities like Norton Commons: Norton Commons. The suburbs, likewise, have so much going on I couldn't do it justice to even try to list stuff like this lifestyle center:

Hagan Properties · Providence Point


The Urban Louisvillian

This guy keeps alot of the bigger development info, but honestly I hope you see there is so much that even I (who has such an interest) can't keep up. I am not sure why I provide all this evidence because I don't even think people are reading it. You said Louisville doesn't have hills with views of the city. You are WRONG:

Louisville Sparkling in the Night photo - Abdul Sharif photos at pbase.com

That is not just "LOuisville sparkling in the night," it is a shot from a top of a hill in a beautiful, Frederick Law Olmstead designed park. So, just like Birmingham, Louisivlle has these views. And just like Birmingham, Louisville is a golfer's paradise. When was the last time the Ryder Cup made it to the Ham?

Ryder Cup 2008 » The Official Site of the 37th Ryder Cup Matches

played at prestigious Valhalla, which is always highly ranked in golf clubs:

Valhalla Golf Club - Top 100 Golf Courses of the USA

The only thing Birmingham has on Louisville is Saks. I really am serious. I am surprised Saks hasn't located here but I guess it doesn't hurt their coprorate is in the Ham. I am telling you, MERGER PAYS! 5 or 10 years ago, Birmingham and Louisville may have been more similar. Today the comparison is a stretch and 5 years from now, there will be absolutely no comparison. Birmingham is not in decline...but as SE cities go, it is getting left behind. I think merger would help the fragmented region.

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by stx12499

Ever hear of the KY Derby? Louisville is in the national spotlight every year for that and gets written up in every major paper in the country. Since when are the NY Times and Dallas Morning News authorities on cities any more than the sources I cited? Did you READ my links? You do realize that many major papers have travel guides and virtually any city gets written up?

Ever hear of the Alabama International Motorspeedway? The world's fastest speedway that has 143,000 permanent seats.

This track holds not one annual event but two - filling the city twice a year with tourists from all over the United States....

Ever hear of Barber Motorsports Park?

Here's what Automobile Magazine said about it...

"Considered to be the largest philanthropic investment ever in the Yellowhammer State, the $63-million complex is, without question, the nicest auto-racing facility in North America - and possibly the world."

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/racing/0705_barber_motorsports_park/index.html

Ever hear of the Porsche Driving School? Well its located right here in Birmingham at the Barber Motorsports Park....

http://www.porschedriving.com/track.htm

Ever hear of Indy Car driving? Well its coming to the Barber Motorsports Park next year. Last weekend - Danica Patrick and Marco Andretti were here testing their cars in anticipation of next year's Indy Car race here.

http://www.barbermotorsports.com/

Formula One racing is predicted in the next 2-3 years.

Ever hear of Formula One racing?

What's Doing In; Louisville - New York Times

Louisville Travel Guide - Hotels, Restaurants, Sightseeing in Louisville - New York Times Travel

http://theater2.nytimes.com/2005/04/...sions/Kentucky

I mean, seriously, a simple google search with "Louisville" and "New York Times" will produce thousands of articles. Same for any of teh other sources you think are so reliable. I cited articles from Atlanta and DC. Are they inferior to Dallas? How about Chicago? Whats more, since Birmingham has ZERO major sports venues, it hardly EVER gets mentioned in the national media. Louisville may not have pros but its flagship university brings it lots of attention for sports unlike UAB.

Well it looks like Louisville is catching up to Birmingham in terms of being nationally recognized in major newspapers...

So you really think Birmingham is anywhere close to Louisville in development?

From what I can tell - Louisville is catching up to Birmingham...I didn't want to spend all day researching everything, but knew that Ingram and Associates Realty is the dominant real estate firm here for selling condos so I simply went to her website and found 22 different condominum developments that she has the listing contract on...

http://ingramnewhomes.com/community.htm (broken link)

And then there's all of the other developments she doesn't have the contract on...I couldn't possibly find them all...I'm going to focus later on in this post on other issues besides how many condos are being built...
I didn't want to have to do this, but here goes:

There are 112 floors of LUXURY condos CURRENTLY under construction in towers. This does not include all the projects in the 4-8 story range, and I will try my best to list many of those.

Museum Plaza

This one project is larger and more vibrant than all of downtown Birmingham. I am not sure why you can't see this, but oh well. 62 floors of luxury condos, office space, Westin hotel, shopping, dining, and a rotating contemporary arts Museum 26 floors in the air.

RiverPark Louisville Kentucky, Lofts and Luxury Condos

Goody Clancy: RiverPark Place Master Plan

32 floors in twin towers in Phase 1. Also two five story loft buildings in Phase 1. Phases 2 and 3 will introduce at least 4 more condo towers, each at least 16 stories high, and about four more 5 story buildings. The largest marina on the Ohio River will be here, and it will be one of the most luxurious inland marina's in the country. Restuarants and retail will locate on the river here.

Seminary Woods - Luxury Living in Louisville

11 Floor luxury Condo tower

Center City District

LouisvilleKy.gov - 2007 - $250 Million Plan To Build Housing, Retail, Office District Downtown

15-30 story luxury condo tower with at least 400 units.

Just announced, this 6 block development will have high end retail and condos to compliment the existing restaurants and entertainment you will never find in dowtown Birmingham, like Hard Rock Cafe, Hard Rock Hotel, Hard Rock Casino, Hard Rock Live, and Hard Rock Rock Shop. Hard Rock Home. and LUCKY STRIKE LANES It will also renovate a small arena to be a concert venue.

Too bad you don't know about this...sorry to ruin your 'insult Birmingham' parade with more facts...

This from the Birmingham-Jefferson Convention Complex website:

"The Birmingham-Jefferson Convention Complex Board of Authority approved conceptual plans this week for a 156,000-square foot entertainment and retail development to be build adjacent to Alabama’s largest convention complex.

Performa Real Estate, Inc., which is most well know for developing the Memphis, Tenn., landmark Beale Street, is heading up the privately funded project. The development will include two hotels totaling 280 rooms between them, several restaurants, multiple entertainment venues and retail stores. The plan includes two half blocks, each of which will feature center grass courtyards available for outdoor events.

The new entertainment district at the Birmingham-Jefferson Convention Complex will include a club owned by and named after Ruben Studdard, the first of two “American Idol” winners from Birmingham. BJCC Executive Director Jack Fields announced to the BJCC board on Aug. 15 that Studdard was the first to sign a lease for the district, set for groundbreaking in the fourth quarter.

Performa Real Estate, Inc., which is developing the district, recruited Studdard to the 156,000-square foot entertainment and retail development. The club’s working name is “Ruben’s Club 205,” and it will feature the soulful music Studdard became known for on the hit Fox TV program “American Idol.

Performa will also meet this week with representatives for Taylor Hicks, another Birmingham “Idol” winner, to work toward an agreement for a club of his own. In seven seasons, two winners and one runner up on the show, Bo Bice, have been from Birmingham."


ZirMed - News Item

Zirmed Gateway Towers
12 floors

Another mixed use with a headquarters for a fast growing health industry company and luxury condos in the top.

Embassy Suites Downtown and Proposed Condo Tower (rumored around 20 floors)

The former Regions Bank HQ is being converted into a 20 story 4 star Rennaissance Hotel...

Downtown's former headquarters will become a Marriott Renaissance hotel. The hotel's developers, Harbert Realty Services and Concord Hospitality Enterprises, announced Monday the selection of the four-diamond hotel brand for the 255-room, $52 million project.
http://article.wn.com/view/2007/07/30/Former_Regions_tower_to_become_Marriott_Renaissanc e_hotel/?template=cheetah-article%2Fdisplayarticle.txt

Hotel could get adjacent condo and parking tower


Kentucky Home Life Building:

19 floor historic highrise, currently under conversion to office condos and residential condos at the top.

Office, residential condos planned at Kentucky Home Life Building - Business First of Louisville:

Kentucky Towers Apartments:

18 floors, currently under massive renovation after purchased by a New York investor:

Kentucky Towers undergoing $3.5 million in renovations - Business First of Louisville:

Tutweiler Hotel - AFTER a major renovation....

http://www.thetutwilerhotel.com/

Which includes ICON restaurant on premises..

http://www.birminghammenus.com/icon/

Other downtown stuff:

Louisville Arena Authority

$250 Million dollar arena currently under construction, 15 stories high with 72 luxury suites. Oh, by the way, McCormick and Schmick's will locate here ina restaurant overlooking the river. Also, Fleming's is looking hard at a suburban mall.

Once again it looks to me like Louisville is finally catching up to restaurants Birmingham has had for years....congrats!!!

But who needs these places when Louisville has restaurants that blow them away like this FOUR DIAMOND Seafood place?

Z's Oyster Bar & Steakhouse

And who needs a place like that when you have Hot and Hot Fish Club written up in Bon Apetit, Gourmet Magazine and its Chef nominated by the James Beard Foundation as the best chef in the South...

http://www.hotandhotfishclub.com/pressrelease.pdf


Iron Quarter | Louisville, KY

15 story office tower, 120,000 square feet of luxury lifestyle shopping

Haymarket Life Sciences park, with associated apporx 10 story twin towers:

Making hay: Haymarket project would represent nearly $300 million investment on East Jefferson - Business First of Louisville:

2.5 BILLION invested just in the life sciences park downtown:

Governor announces $2.5 billion plan to benefit Louisville’s health sciences development :: News :: University of Louisville -- dare to be great

Welcome to Waterfront Park!

WaterfrontPark phase 3 and associated pedestrian bridge to Indiana.

Fairfield Inn & Suites Louisville Downtown: Earn Rewards points and stay productive when traveling to Louisville

317 rooms in twin 8 and 5 story buildings currently under construction for Fairfield Inn and Spring Hill Suites by Marriot.

Some "smaller projects"

Ice House Lofts

7 floors, and 5 floors. 52 units.

Fleur de Lis on Main - The Cornerstone of Downtown Living

5 floors. 82 units under construction now

the Mercantile

5 floors 4 floors, under construction

liberty green

6 city blocks of apartments and condos downtown with over 400 units, currently under construction

Bycks Lofts

4 floors

Gallery Square Lofts

Central Park Lofts

I mean, this list could go on for pages but I will quit here. All this, except Seminary woods, is in our downtown area. This does NOT include other nearby urban areas like Butchertown, Highlands, Crescent Hill, etc, which have their own infill projects. Just a couple examples of some Highlands infill:

The Cherokee Grande • Residential Properties • Jefferson Development Group

or the 6 floor Park Grande, just completed

The Park Grande • Residential Properties • Jefferson Development Group


Whew, I didnt come close to covering everything downtown, but I tried to list the bigger projects. And this does not count what ALREADY exists, which is already twice the urban options that you would find compared to a Birmingham. Then you have urban in the suburbs communities like Norton Commons: Norton Commons. The suburbs, likewise, have so much going on I couldn't do it justice to even try to list stuff like this lifestyle center:

Hagan Properties · Providence Point


The Urban Louisvillian

This guy keeps alot of the bigger development info, but honestly I hope you see there is so much that even I (who has such an interest) can't keep up. I am not sure why I provide all this evidence because I don't even think people are reading it. You said Louisville doesn't have hills with views of the city. You are WRONG:

Louisville Sparkling in the Night photo - Abdul Sharif photos at pbase.com

That is not just "LOuisville sparkling in the night," it is a shot from a top of a hill in a beautiful, Frederick Law Olmstead designed park. So, just like Birmingham, Louisivlle has these views. And just like Birmingham, Louisville is a golfer's paradise. When was the last time the Ryder Cup made it to the Ham?

Ryder Cup 2008 » The Official Site of the 37th Ryder Cup Matches

played at prestigious Valhalla, which is always highly ranked in golf clubs:

Valhalla Golf Club - Top 100 Golf Courses of the USA

Shoal Creek here in Birmingham (#50) is higher rated by Golf Digest than Valhalla (#68). It has hosted two PGA Championships.

http://www.golfdigest.com/rankings/courses/greatest/2007/100greatestcourses_gd200705

Additionally, Birmingham has the number #67 Public Course in the U.S. according to Golf Digest - Limestone Springs....Louisville has no public courses listed.

http://www.golfdigest.com/images/rankings/gd200705100greatestpublic.pdf

Additionally Birmingham has the #39 Toughest Course in America according to the Golf Digest ratings - Ross Bridge...once again, Louisville has none...

http://www.golfdigest.com/rankings/courses/toughest/2007/gd50toughestcourses?currentPage=5

And Birmingham is home to one of the nation's finest golf resorts....Ross Bridge - which is home to three Robert Trent Jones golf courses...[SIZE=2]Proclaimed as "the best thing ever done for public golf" by Golf Digest magazine, the Robert Trent Jones Trail is arguably the golf phenomenon of the nineties.[/SIZE]

The only thing Birmingham has on Louisville is Saks. I really am serious. I am surprised Saks hasn't located here but I guess it doesn't hurt their coprorate is in the Ham. I am telling you, MERGER PAYS! 5 or 10 years ago, Birmingham and Louisville may have been more similar. Today the comparison is a stretch and 5 years from now, there will be absolutely no comparison. Birmingham is not in decline...but as SE cities go, it is getting left behind. I think merger would help the fragmented region.

Now here are the things Birmingham has on Louisville...and its a lot more than Saks. It's the stuff that has a tremendous impact on a citizen's quality of life...a lot more than condo development.

1) Better public schools:

A) Mountain Brook High School

Recognized for the nationally prestigious Blue Ribbon School Award during two school years, 1983-84 and 1992-93. Additional honors for MBHS include these:

• <LI style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Selected by REDBOOK magazine as one of 155 schools named America’s Best High Schools for Overall Excellence <LI style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Recognized by NEWSWEEK magazine as one of the nation’s Top 100 High Schools <LI style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Honored by The College Board’s AP Program for the academic excellence and outstanding support and participation in the Advanced Placement Program.
• Graduated three Rhodes Scholars and one Fulbright Scholar.

B) Jefferson County IB School named by Newsweek as the #4 high school in the United States....

C) The top rated public school in Louisville was Eastern that came in at #662.

2) Better climate - obvious - no snow, in January I am playing golf and your courses are closed.

3) Better economy/job market -
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics - The Birmingham-Hoover metro was rated #4 in unemployment. Louisville was rated #48, just two notches above Detroit.

http://stats.bls.gov/lau/malrgrank06.htm

4) Better healthcare
Eight UAB Hospital specialty programs are among the nation’s top 50 — seven are in the top 25 — of the 16 categories evaluated at America’s 5,462 hospitals this year by U.S. News & World Report. The rankings appear in the magazine’s 18th annual “America’s Best Hospitals” issue, released July 13, 2007.

5) Better location - I can reach the beach in 4 hours...you cannot.

[Reactionary]

Note to self - bring lunch when debating with Bravo or stx :-)

Barbour Motorsports is awesome! The lobby inspires a real 'WOW' experience. And they don't have metro government...

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by Reactionary

Note to self - bring lunch when debating with Bravo or stx :-)

Barbour Motorsports is awesome! The lobby inspires a real 'WOW' experience. And they don't have metro government...

Hehehehehe....thanks....just defending my hometown from an inaccurate onslaught of misinformation!

[stx12499]

HAHAHA this is hysterical! That 152,000 sq. foot entertainment district is miniscule! Louisville's new district will be over 500,000 sq feet and will include retail. Louisville has one block that is more vibrant than anything in Birmingham already, and it is not even that cool!

Nothing in Birmingham's history gets the national media attention that the Derby festival does. E news reports live here every year, and the Barne-Stable Brown Party draws some pretty decent celebrities. Extra, MTV, you name it, they are all here. Remember Larry Birkhead, father of Anna Nicole's baby? That's a Louisville boy and of course brings in a lot of tabloid media to the city. Of course, Louisville sees nowhere near the national attention of a slightly larger city like Nashville, though...but at least I can admit that. About the only national attention you'll ever see the Ham get is for its American Idol singers. Most of American has no idea about Louisville or Birmingham...but at least they've heard of KY Derby!

Louisville has chefs in the James Beard House every year.

The James Beard Foundation Events: April 2006

If you think Birmingham restaurants come even close to Louisville's, I suggest you go to this site and post in the forums:

LouisvilleHotBytes.com

By the way, does Birmingham have a foodie community large enough to sustain a message board? I haven't seen one. Here are few local restuarants that have banded together. Is there a Birmingham chapter? Most major cities in teh region have a chapter.

Louisville Originals

The fact is, Louisville's restaurant scene is more in line with Atlanta's!

Valhalla has hosted PGA Championships as well, with the PGA in 2000 and the Senior PGA in 2004. Again, your point?

Where's your arena's? Arent they kind of old??

Greater Louisville Sports Commission > Sports Venues & Facilities

I mean, Birmingham doesn't even compete in AAA baseball! Its in the minors of the minor leagues! Oh, and your park is located in some generic suburb? Well here's Louisville's

Louisville Bats: Home

Glad you are expanding the convention center..it needs it.. Louisville has one of the largest convention centers in tier two cities (outside convention centers of NY, Chicago, Atlanta, NO, Orlando, and Vegas).

Kentucky Exposition Center

we also already have a downtown convention center which is actually adjacent to nightlife and restuarants, AND multiple hotels.

Do you seriously think some never heard of race track compares to a historical venue like Churchill Downs? How about the nation's largest firework's festival? How often do you have 750,000 people come down to the waterfront?

Thunder Over Louisville - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What, no reply to RiverPark Place or Museum Plaza? Didn't think so.

How is Louisville catching up to a smaller city and metro? I think not. It is Birmingham who has long lagged behind the entire SE and comprable cities.

You keep talking schools...I am NOT buying it. Louisville has one of the top rated Catholic and parochial school systems in the region. Also, you are forgetting several suburban districts like Oldham County are comprable to anything in the Birmingham metro. Furthermore, schools in teh actual CITY of Birmingham are crap and that is why they have declined by almost 10,000 students in a decade per your alt weekly magazine, Birmingham Weekly.

I mean seriously, I enjoy a good debate, but you are a blind Birmingham booster. I would never say that Louisville has the amount of growth or urban development as Nashville. Why? Because the facts clearly point otherwise. Louisville has a good ways to go to catch up to the development in Nashville, and the size difference between Louisville and Nashville is similar to the difference between Louisville and Birmingham.

And your idea of citing all these random rankings means nothing. When you start getting multiple entertainment districts, hundreds of floors of condos, and some semblence of a nightlife outside a tiny area of the southside, you will be attractive to young professionals. Louisville is equally as beautiful as the Ham with lots of trees and gorgeous parks, and rolling topography. Both are great cities to raise families, and overall, the school offerings are about the same. Louisville has Blue Ribbon schools every damn year, it just changes which get nominated:

Holy Spirit among 3 earning Blue Ribbon honors

Also, I am not just judging my experience based on a few visits. I know several people from Birmingham now living in Louisville. I used to date one of them, and went back there often for holidays with her family. I have only been in Louisville for about five years and I have seen this city grow tremendously in urban, sustainable development. The Ham is a nice city but just not there yet (or at least on the level of a Louisville).

Let me add a disqualifier...if you are comparing Birmingham to the Louisville of five years ago, it may have been mroe of a fair comparison. Both were relatively stagnant, stay as you are areas. The difference now is night and day. All the stuff you listed for downtown...Louisville already has. The Marriot, the entertainment district, and not one but two 1920's hotels that are both AAA four diamond. One has a four diamond restaurant and one has a five diamond one.

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by Bravo35223

Hehehehehe....thanks....just defending my hometown from an inaccurate onslaught of misinformation!

Inaccurate? Hardly. I never attacked Birmingham, I just provided facts as to why Louisville is out of its league in terms of development and vibrancy, and attractiveness to those who enjoy that. You are looking like a hometown booster. I have lived all over and did not even grow up in Louisville. But ALL of this is to make my point that the Ham needs to merge with its county!!!! Seriously, look at this site:

The Urban Louisvillian

If you can HONESTLY sit here and tell me the Ham has the same activity after looking at all the projects there, I will eat my hat!

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by stx12499

HAHAHA this is hysterical!

It really is hysterical because you continue to fail to support your arguments with objective data...

t 152,000 sq. foot entertainment district is miniscule! Louisville's new district will be over 500,000 sq feet and will include retail. Louisville has one block that is more vibrant than anything in Birmingham already, and it is not even that cool!

Nothing in Birmingham's history gets the national media attention that the Derby festival does. E news reports live here every year, and the Barne-Stable Brown Party draws some pretty decent celebrities. Extra, MTV, you name it, they are all here. Remember Larry Birkhead, father of Anna Nicole's baby? That's a Louisville boy and of course brings in a lot of tabloid media to the city.
Yes and if you are proud of a redneck like this - then well.....

Of course, Louisville sees nowhere near the national attention of a slightly larger city like Nashville, though...but at least I can admit that. About the only national attention you'll ever see the Ham get is for its American Idol singers. Most of American has no idea about Louisville or Birmingham...but at least they've heard of KY Derby!

That's fine...it is not part of my value system. I don't need a sporting event to make my feel better about where I live. I value good schools, low crime, low taxes, good climate, good weather and good local government. You and most of the people who come to City Data have very different values.

I've been to the Kentucky Derby. I had a wonderful time. I bet on Genuine Risk to win and made a lot of money that day. But - honestly - in the day to day scheme of things a 2.5 minute horserace held as the 11th race on a Saturday afternoon card, has very very little to do with
the day to day issues which define what makes a good place to live.

Louisville has chefs in the James Beard House every year.

The James Beard Foundation Events: April 2006

If you think Birmingham restaurants come even close to Louisville's, I suggest you go to this site and post in the forums:

LouisvilleHotBytes.com

You DO A WONDERFUL JOB of citing Local sources but fail ONCE AGAIN to cite sources like Bon Apetit, Gourmet etc.

I cannot possibly believe they allow you to be a MODERATOR on a forum

By the way, does Birmingham have a foodie community large enough to sustain a message board? I haven't seen one. Here are few local restuarants that have banded together. Is there a Birmingham chapter? Most major cities in teh region have a chapter.

Louisville Originals

The fact is, Louisville's restaurant scene is more in line with Atlanta's!

Valhalla has hosted PGA Championships as well, with the PGA in 2000 and the Senior PGA in 2004. Again, your point?

WE have a very different way of looking at things:

I CITE INDEPENDENT REFERENCES FROM OUTSIDE THE AREA: You dont...

Golf Digest's ratings of Birmingham golf courses blew away Louisville' and you have nothing to show for it...NO PUBLIC COURSES THAT ARE RATED.

SORRY.

And No Nationally rated golf resort like Ross Bridge....

SORRY>

Where's your arena's? Arent they kind of old??

Greater Louisville Sports Commission > Sports Venues & Facilities

No they're not.....hehehehe.....

http://www.hooveral.org/Default.asp?ID=435

I mean, Birmingham doesn't even compete in AAA baseball!

OH MY GOSH AA vs AAA - I hope your ego feels better....it's obvious you are very very insecure. NEITHER ONE ARE MAJOR LEAGE

Its in the minors of the minor leagues! Oh, and your park is located in some generic suburb?

Its in one of the finest suburban areas in the United States....I've never seen someone clutch at straws like you do....you have no business moderating a forum...

Well here's Louisville's

Louisville Bats: Home

Glad you are expanding the convention center..it needs it.. Louisville has one of the largest convention centers in tier two cities (outside convention centers of NY, Chicago, Atlanta, NO, Orlando, and Vegas).

Kentucky Exposition Center

we also already have a downtown convention center which is actually adjacent to nightlife and restuarants, AND multiple hotels.

Do you seriously think some never heard of race track compares to a historical venue like Churchill Downs? How about the nation's largest firework's festival? How often do you have 750,000 people come down to the waterfront?

Thunder Over Louisville - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What, no reply to RiverPark Place or Museum Plaza? Didn't think so.

Oh yes, one of the largest municipal owned art museums in the United
States.. I know so -

Welcome to the Birmingham Museum of Art

How is Louisville catching up to a smaller city and metro? I think not. It is Birmingham who has long lagged behind the entire SE and comprable cities.

You keep talking schools...I am NOT buying it.

Sorry you cannot buy it because you cannot back it up with any nationally respected rankings from outside your area. You - once again - have provided nothing in terms of rankings from any sort of indepedent organization....your credibility is sinking because you continue to provide anecdotal information.

The schools I listed are:

1) Nationally ranked by Newsweek magazine, Redbook magazine and others.
2) Are available to all students - not just CATHOLICS.

3) Are FREE....no tuition.

Louisville has one of the top rated Catholic and parochial school systems in the region. Also, you are forgetting several suburban districts like Oldham County are comprable to anything in the Birmingham metro. Furthermore, schools in teh actual CITY of Birmingham are crap and that is why they have declined by almost 10,000 students in a decade per your alt weekly magazine, Birmingham Weekly.

I mean seriously, I enjoy a good debate, but you are a blind Birmingham booster. I would never say that Louisville has the amount of growth or urban development as Nashville. Why? Because the facts clearly point otherwise. Louisville has a good ways to go to catch up to the development in Nashville, and the size difference between Louisville and Nashville is similar to the difference between Louisville and Birmingham.

And your idea of citing all these random rankings means nothing.

And now your entire way of bringing your arguments here has fallen down. You are in the same pattern you have been in this entire discussion.

You are unable to deal with rankings that are done independently - outside of Louisville and Birmingham. I am sorry you are unable to deal with this - but it shows you are unable to deal with reality

When you start getting multiple entertainment districts, hundreds of floors of condos, and some semblence of a nightlife outside a tiny area of the southside, you will be attractive to young professionals.

And when you start to understand that the fundamentals of quality of life are:

1) Good Public Schools
2) Good Healthcare
3) Good Climate
4) Good location
5) Good economy/low unemployment rate

Then, you will begin to understand that these are the cornerstones of a good place to live....I love your statistics on condos....read mine.

But I think most people on City Data are looking for the 5 criteria I listed above....not condos...which Birmingham has been overrun with for years

Louisville is equally as beautiful as the Ham with lots of trees and gorgeous parks, and rolling topography. Both are great cities to raise families, and overall, the school offerings are about the same. Louisville has Blue Ribbon schools every damn year, it just changes which get nominated:

Holy Spirit among 3 earning Blue Ribbon honors

Also, I am not just judging my experience based on a few visits. I know several people from Birmingham now living in Louisville. I used to date one of them, and went back there often for holidays with her family. I have only been in Louisville for about five years and I have seen this city grow tremendously in urban, sustainable development. The Ham is a nice city but just not there yet (or at least on the level of a Louisville).

Let me add a disqualifier...if you are comparing Birmingham to the Louisville of five years ago, it may have been mroe of a fair comparison. Both were relatively stagnant, stay as you are areas. The difference now is night and day. All the stuff you listed for downtown...Louisville already has. The Marriot, the entertainment district, and not one but two 1920's hotels that are both AAA four diamond. One has a four diamond restaurant and one has a five diamond one.

YOU STILL HAVE FAILED to ADDRESS THESE ISSUES OBJECTIVELY.

1) Better Public Schools

2) Better Healthcare

3) Better Economy

4) Better Climate

5) Better Location.

Rant all you want....I know you are frustrated.

[stx12499]

Originally Posted by Bravo35223

YOU STILL HAVE FAILED to ADDRESS THESE ISSUES OBJECTIVELY.

1) Better Public Schools

2) Better Healthcare

3) Better Economy

4) Better Climate

5) Better Location.

Rant all you want....I know you are frustrated.

And that is why young professionals flee from Birmingham...we don't care about schools. We care about DOWNTOWNS, JOBS, VIBRANCY, and NIGHTLIFE. This includes cool, modern condo communities. Skyscrapers. Transit. Cities that don't die after 5 PM. Downtown ARENAS to socialize at.

Louisville is in Gourmet and Bon Appetit all the time. How about this month's issue for starters?

Romantic/Special Occasions at Gourmet Features at Epicurious.com

Do a google search next time, I am not doing your homework for you. But seriously,

1) So how are Birmingham public schools better? Birmingham city schools are crap. Pure Crap. One of the fastest declining enrollments in the country as all but the poorest of the poor have left the city limits. You haven't proved anything. Why don't you address this?

Louisville metro has 5 schools listed on the US NEWS top high schools. You are very wrong to think Catholic schools are only open to Catholics, and that is the type of discriminatory comment that makes people not like southern states like Alabama. Do you even read my links? Louisville has lots of US Blue Ribbon Schools. If you read my "local link" you'd see that.

Birmingham has better education? Hmm, then why is it when you compare Jefferson County KY to Jefferson County Alabama, you see that Jefferson KY has a higher percentage of college graduates and high school graduates.

Jefferson County, Alabama - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder

2) Better healthcare? Huh? How? Louisville is investing in a 2 billion research park downtown. The city did the first hand transplant, the first artifical heart transplant, and invented the gardasil vaccine. All in the past decade or less. Louisville and Birmingham each had one hospital ranked on US NEWS...but who says US NEWS is the authority on this stuff anyways? Much of their methodology is flawed anyways. Google it for criticism of it all around. Anyways, both cities seem equal here. Oh, how many Fortune 150 Healthcare companies are headquartered in Birmingham?

Humana - Guidance when you need it most.

3) Better Economy?

How again? With your less college graduates? How?! Please tell me. Because you have one year with a slightly better unemployment? Care to post the unememployment stats for the CITY of Birmingham? Yes, Birmingham has a better unemployment rate in its metro due to its suburbs I guess? You got me on one point. Still, how is this a measure of the total economy? It is only one measure. Why isn't the Ham building infill like Louisville then?


4) Better Climate?

Wrong again. How are more hot and humid summers making for a better climate? Some people prefer more of four equal seasons. Some people even like snow. Louisville averages about 16 inches a year...not much. This is totally subjective, and these two cities are not that far apart. Seriously, Chicago or Denver has a more desirable climate for many. There you go again with a "southerncentric" viewpoint.

5) Better Location?

You CANNOT prove that Birmingham has a better location. For people like me, being closer to cooler, large cities is much better. Louiville is closer to Chicago, which blows away Atlanta. You can get to Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Nashville really fast for some more entertainment. Brimingham is isolated, and since there is not much vibrancy there, no wonder I got bored. Besides Atlanta, what is around? Mobile? Huntsville? Jackson? Yawn! You act like Louisville is so far north, yet it is only 5-6 hours from Birmingham. Again, you can't prove better location. We don'd need to drive when our convenient airport offers cheap, nonstop flights to the best parts of Florida like Orlando, Miami, and Ft Lauderdale. I am sure many people fly to the beaches from the Ham as well.

Me frustrated? Wrong. You just can't admit the obvious. Birmingham is not an attractive city for young professionals because it lacks urban growth and vibrancy. Merger would help that. I never brought up schools and the other stuff, but you are starting to go over the top here with accusations.

My case rests on the facts of development I provided before. I do not appreciate you accusatory tone at this point in the conversation.

[stx12499]

More about declining center city Birmingham, and the majority of its growth being suburban:

USA Major Metropolitan Areas: Suburban and Core City Growth: 2000 to 2004

[Bravo35223]

Originally Posted by stx12499

And that is why young professionals flee from Birmingham...we don't care about schools. We care about DOWNTOWNS, JOBS, VIBRANCY, and NIGHTLIFE. This includes cool, modern condo communities. Skyscrapers. Transit. Cities that don't die after 5 PM. Downtown ARENAS to socialize at.

Here is what the Dallas Morning News said about Birmingham. Sounds plenty. There's no doubt from this article that the city doesn't die after 5 PM - because it mentions activity at 3 a.m, The problem is - you are completely unable to accept references like this...

"On a recent weekend, the events listings for Birmingham filled pages and pages in the local papers. Part of the problem, if you can call too many options a problem, is that many venues multitask.
The Safari Cup, for example, doesn't just serve coffee and sandwiches; it also sells African objects, displays art and hosts jazz-jam nights. The sushi restaurant Sakura in Five Points South adds some edge to its raw fish with live punk bands. WorkPlay, which opened in 2001, also has multiple personalities: Besides housing media businesses, it packs in the people at its low-key bar and cavernous club.

In Birmingham, day can easily run into night, then back into day without pause for sleep or a change of clothes. At the Nick, a hole-in-the-wall club, bands often start around midnight and play until 3 a.m. If you crave a burger afterward, Marty's is still flipping patties."


Louisville is in Gourmet and Bon Appetit all the time. How about this month's issue for starters?

Romantic/Special Occasions at Gourmet Features at Epicurious.com

Do a google search next time, I am not doing your homework for you. But seriously,

1) So how are Birmingham public schools better? Birmingham city schools are crap. Pure Crap. One of the fastest declining enrollments in the country as all but the poorest of the poor have left the city limits. You haven't proved anything. Why don't you address this?

There you go again with your insults. And you are a MODERATOR on this forum....I am going to report you to the Administrator....this post will be referenced.

I will patiently address this once again.

Birmingham does not have metro form of government. It is organized like Atlanta. The Atlanta metro population is 4+ million with the actual population of the City of Atlanta, Georgia being approximately 450,000....therefore 9 out of 10 Atlantans don't live in Altanta. The City of Atlanta has poor public schools and high crime. Atlanta's good public schools are located in the suburban areas.

Birmingham's metro population is 1.1 million, located in five counties. The population of the City of Birmingham, Alabama is 240,000. The City of Birmingham's public schools are not of high quality - like Atlanta's. Birmingham's good public schools are located in the suburban areas - like Atlanta's

So I have very much indeed addressed the point about public schools. What you have failed again to do - is to find schools SOMEWHERE in the Lousivlle area that are rated equally to the one's I listed. The Jefferson County IB school is part of the Jefferson County Board of Education and has no tuition. The Mountain Brook High School is part of the Mountain Brook School system and has no tuition.

I saw your link to the Catholic school in Louisville. We have a fine one here too...tuition for Catholics is $6,000 per year....non-Catholics $8000.

Louisville metro has 5 schools listed on the US NEWS top high schools. But they are lower rated than the ones in Birmingham You are very wrong to think Catholic schools are only open to Catholics, and that is the type of discriminatory comment that makes people not like southern states like Alabama.

Well, since I am Catholic - I certainly do not appreciate your insult. I do not have my children at John Carroll Catholic High School here because the tuition is $6000 per year per student. I have my children in Mountain Brook schools which are free.

You have insulted me and I am reporting you to the Administrator.


Do you even read my links? Louisville has lots of US Blue Ribbon Schools. If you read my "local link" you'd see that.

Birmingham has better education? Hmm, then why is it when you compare Jefferson County KY to Jefferson County Alabama, you see that Jefferson KY has a higher percentage of college graduates and high school graduates.

Jefferson County, Alabama - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder

2) Better healthcare? Huh? How? Louisville is investing in a 2 billion research park downtown.

Billions have already been invested in Birmingham's UAB medical center over DECADES - which is higher rated than the University of Louisville. Once again, Louisville is catching up.

The city did the first hand transplant, the first artifical heart transplant, and invented the gardasil vaccine. All in the past decade or less. Louisville and Birmingham each had one hospital ranked on US NEWS...but who says US NEWS is the authority on this stuff anyways?

This continues to be YOUR PROBLEM. When I reference INDEPENDENT SOURCES that rate Birmingham higher than Louisville - you attack the source.

Much of their methodology is flawed anyways. Google it for criticism of it all around. Anyways, both cities seem equal here. Oh, how many Fortune 150 Healthcare companies are headquartered in Birmingham?

One....Healthsouth Corporation

http://www.healthsouth.com/

Humana - Guidance when you need it most.

3) Better Economy?

How again? With your less college graduates? How?! Please tell me. Because you have one year with a slightly better unemployment? Care to post the unememployment stats for the CITY of Birmingham? Yes, Birmingham has a better unemployment rate in its metro due to its suburbs I guess?

Yes this is true....on City Data yesterday, I answered a query about someone who is considering moving to Birmingham. Her husband is taking a job at Mercedes Benz in Tuscaloosa County, which is contiguous to Jefferson County. These are high paying jobs. The Honda manufacturing facility also has high paying jobs. At & T has 7000 employees in Birmingham as it is the Technical HQ for AT&T Southeast. These are high paying jobs.


You got me on one point. Still, how is this a measure of the total economy? It is only one measure. Why isn't the Ham building infill like Louisville then?

Once again, I am sorry that you cannot deal with statistics from independent sources. Alabama - as a state - has done a phenomenal job of recruiting industry


4) Better Climate?

Wrong again. How are more hot and humid summers making for a better climate? Some people prefer more of four equal seasons. Some people even like snow. Louisville averages about 16 inches a year...not much. This is totally subjective, and these two cities are not that far apart. Seriously, Chicago or Denver has a more desirable climate for many. There you go again with a "southerncentric" viewpoint.

Well I am not from the south. I was born in Kansas City and we moved here from Chicago. I have also lived in San Antonio. So I do not appreciate your personal insult.

I'll say it again....while you are dealing with snow in January - I will be playing golf here.

5) Better Location?

You CANNOT prove that Birmingham has a better location. For people like me, being closer to cooler, large cities is much better. Louiville is closer to Chicago, which blows away Atlanta. You can get to Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and Nashville really fast for some more entertainment. Brimingham is isolated, and since there is not much vibrancy there, no wonder I got bored.

This is what the Dallas Morning News said about Birmingham

On a recent weekend, the events listings for Birmingham filled pages and pages in the local papers. Part of the problem, if you can call too many options a problem, is that many venues multitask.
The Safari Cup, for example, doesn't just serve coffee and sandwiches; it also sells African objects, displays art and hosts jazz-jam nights. The sushi restaurant Sakura in Five Points South adds some edge to its raw fish with live punk bands. WorkPlay, which opened in 2001, also has multiple personalities: Besides housing media businesses, it packs in the people at its low-key bar and cavernous club.

In Birmingham, day can easily run into night, then back into day without pause for sleep or a change of clothes. At the Nick, a hole-in-the-wall club, bands often start around midnight and play until 3 a.m. If you crave a burger afterward, Marty's is still flipping patties

I am sorry you get bored. It is obvious you have spent very little time here and you continue to insult myself and our city.

Besides Atlanta, what is around? Mobile? Huntsville? Jackson? Yawn! You act like Louisville is so far north, yet it is only 5-6 hours from Birmingham. Again, you can't prove better location. We don'd need to drive when our convenient airport offers cheap, nonstop flights to the best parts of Florida like Orlando, Miami, and Ft Lauderdale.

The Birmingham International Airport has non-stop service to the following cities...the dominant carrier is Southwest airlines which has served the city since 1986. It offers cheap, non-stop flights.

Atlanta ATL
Baltimore BWI
Charlotte CLT
Chicago MDW
Chicago ORD
Cincinnati CVG
Dallas/Ft. Worth DFW
Dallas Love Field DAL
Denver DEN
Detroit DTW
Houston HOU
Houston IAH
Jacksonville JAX
Las Vegas LAS
Louisville SDF
Memphis MEM
Nashville BNA
New Orleans MSY
Newark/New York EWR
New York LGA
Orlando MCO
Philadelphia/Wilmington PHL
Phoenix PHX
Raleigh/Durham RDU
Salt Lake City SLC
St. Louis STL
Tampa/St. Pete TPA
Washington Dulles IAD

And here are the cities served DIRECT - which in the case of Southwest airlines, means the plane stops for 25 minutes to deplane/plane passengers and then proceeds to the next destination. Not non-stop, but close because you do not get off the plane....

• Albany ALB
• Albuquerque ABQ
• Baltimore BWI
• Baton Rouge BTR
• Buffalo BUF
• Chicago MDW
• Chicago ORD
• El Paso ELP
• Ft. Lauderdale FLL
• Grand Rapids GRR
• Greensboro GSO
• Greenville/Spartanburg GSP
• Harrisburg MDT
• Kansas City MCI
• Los Angeles LAX
• Manchester MHT
• Miami MIA
• New Bern EWN
• Oklahoma City OKC
• Omaha OMA
• Ontario ONT
• Richmond RIC
• Savannah SAV
• Shreveport SHV
• St. Louis STL
• Washington National DCA
• Wikes-Barre/Scranton AVP
• Wilmington ILM

I am sure many people fly to the beaches from the Ham as well.

No....people drive. It is only a 4.5 hour drive. Why would you want to fly when you would have to rent a car when going to your condo? Why would you want to spend $300-$400 on an airline ticket when you can drive for $50?

Me frustrated? Wrong. You just can't admit the obvious.

It is obvious to me that this is a better place to live. It has a better climate, better economy, better public schools and better healtcare as referenced from my independent sources.

Birmingham is not an attractive city for young professionals because it lacks urban growth and vibrancy. Merger would help that. I never brought up schools and the other stuff, but you are starting to go over the top here with accusations.

My case rests on the facts of development I provided before. I do not appreciate you accusatory tone at this point in the conversation.

Moderator cut: removed comment