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I have no jollies in my assessment of this individual. And to liken what he did to the cats to people eating meat... sorry... no comparison. Whatever road got him to where he is, I still wouldn't want him next door or hanging out with my kids. Just about every well known serial killer that started out that way (killing animals) has a sad story behind their behavior. It is a sad and appalling thing and I don't condone what many of them went thru but I still don't want them next door or loosed on society.
Would you agree that Hitler was mentally ill? Ted Bundy? Night Stalker? Zodiac Killer? I'm not comparing this guy with them mind you, but they were all mentally ill as far as I'm concerned and my sympathies do not lie with them no matter their background.
I know plenty of people that have worked with the mentally ill and have some close relatives that are mentally ill and anyone that's been around a lot of mentally ill pretty much knows it's a very short step from killing animals as he did (dismembering them, putting them on display) to moving on to humans. And since he left these ones out so publicly, I'll just about guarantee you that it isn't his first time. Frequently, the first kills are hidden, even buried.
Harry, so many times I've agreed with your posts and what you've had to say..but to equate what he did to humans that eat meat?... sorry... you totally lost me there. You might as well be comparing the holocaust to putting a steak on the grill.
We are a group of people reacting to something that a young MAN did that was horrific and a well known sign of trouble to come and stating that we don't think he should be tried as a youthful offender. He needs to be seriously evaluated. We are not a lynch mob running after him with a rope to hang him. There is a vast difference.
I have no jollies in my assessment of this individual. And to liken what he did to the cats to people eating meat... sorry... no comparison. Whatever road got him to where he is, I still wouldn't want him next door or hanging out with my kids. Just about every well known serial killer that started out that way (killing animals) has a sad story behind their behavior. It is a sad and appalling thing and I don't condone what many of them went thru but I still don't want them next door or loosed on society.
Would you agree that Hitler was mentally ill? Ted Bundy? Night Stalker? Zodiac Killer? I'm not comparing this guy with them mind you, but they were all mentally ill as far as I'm concerned and my sympathies do not lie with them no matter their background.
I know plenty of people that have worked with the mentally ill and have some close relatives that are mentally ill and anyone that's been around a lot of mentally ill pretty much knows it's a very short step from killing animals as he did (dismembering them, putting them on display) to moving on to humans. And since he left these ones out so publicly, I'll just about guarantee you that it isn't his first time. Frequently, the first kills are hidden, even buried.
Harry, so many times I've agreed with your posts and what you've had to say..but to equate what he did to humans that eat meat?... sorry... you totally lost me there. You might as well be comparing the holocaust to putting a steak on the grill.
We are a group of people reacting to something that a young MAN did that was horrific and a well known sign of trouble to come and stating that we don't think he should be tried as a youthful offender. He needs to be seriously evaluated. We are not a lynch mob running after him with a rope to hang him. There is a vast difference.
You will note that in my first post, I mentioned the possibility of this progressing to something far darker. What I was hoping in the more recent post was to differentiate some simple concepts, however those can be surprisingly hard to express in a way that is easily understood. As a start, a minister might say "Despise the sin, not the sinner."
Addressing the Godwin response for the moment; From what I have read Hitler may not have been mentally ill initially, and much of what is attributed to him really comes from underlings. That doesn't deny his responsibility, any more than that of an American President for his underlings. I mention this because Hitler was a product of his environment, perhaps more than most people. In a different setting, it is quite likely he would have remained a painter and minor figure. Again, where possible, I try to separate the myths from the researched and known.
Give a boy of age six a magnifying glass, a hot sunny summer day, and a hidden field, and you are likely to have him come in smelling vaguely of fried ants. To a Janist, that is a serious sin, but it is a part of development. In a healthy setting, the desire to harm animals or even non-threatening insects usually goes away quickly. If the child is being abused, that might not happen. The power of death can become an outlet for rage that can't otherwise be expressed. Is it the child's fault that he is abused? Of course not. At an age of six and even later, the moral systems of most kids aren't developed. In a threatening or dangerous environment, that morality can be delayed and thwarted much longer. Again, "Despise the sin, not the sinner."
Is the man/boy an adult at age 20? In some ways yes, in some ways no. When I was growing up, once a boy finished high school, the parents largely let him find his sea-legs on his own, with minimal guidance other than perhaps financial support towards college. It is obvious to me that in many families today, that isn't the standard, and that many boys are still entangled in family issues well into college years. On the legal front, there is also precedent to claim the man is a boy and not a full adult. An unintended consequence of MADD raising the drinking age from 18 to 21 is that kids between those ages often do NOT feel like full adults. Call them "underage drinkers" and they are going to think, not only that they got caught drinking, but that they are underage. That mental milepost of "Am I an adult?" gets set back three years, and it gets reinforced every time a parent gets in trouble for supply beer to a party. Playing devil's advocate, I can make a case for raising the YO offender limit to age 21. (I might not agree with it, but I can still make a solid case for it based on case rulings.)
In reference to: "but to equate what he did to humans that eat meat?... sorry... you totally lost me there. "
What I was doing was trying to get folks to stand on a hill and look and think, rather than simply take common easy trench roads of "thought." I used the chicken analogy because we have a lot of chicken processing that goes on around here. Perhaps I might do better by asking questions so that you can sort things out for yourself.
Does the fact that it was cats rather than chickens disturb you?
Are you aware that cats and dogs are eaten in many areas of the world?
If the dead cats had been simply part of a commercial processing of cats for food, would that be as troubling to you?
Is the idea of a person intentionally killing an animal for any reason troubling to you?
Have you ever had to have a pet "put down?"
If so, would you ever own up to - in public - saying that you paid to have your pet killed?
What I am doing with the above questions is trying to get you to break out from self-imposed or society-imposed barriers and examine where the "sin" lies. We use language all the time to deceive ourselves, and when we do so we lose touch with our humanity and reality.
Given that the real risk to you or others is about equal, is whacking a snake over the head with a shovel more or less heinous than whacking a feral cat or dog over the head with the same shovel?
If you spend time really thinking about the subject, I think you will eventually come to a conclusion similar to mine, that the real serious question is whether or not pleasure was taken in those acts of destruction. We don't see poultry processing workers running around killing people, and I remember a butcher from childhood who was a really nice gentle guy.
If you can get to the point of recognizing that cute, fur, and dead are similar to ugly, slithery, and dead to the animal inhabiting the bodies, then again you come to: the real serious question is whether or not pleasure was taken in those acts of destruction.
I do not deny in any way that the act of killing cats is revolting. I've shared my home over the years with five of them, and was more devastated from the death of one of my friend cats than the deaths of some of my relatives.
The difference in the way I am reacting to the OP than the way others are reacting is different in that after my initial flush of anger, I recognized that the court system would likely handle this better than most cases, and that if the guy needed help he would get it, or if he was beyond that would get a consequence for his actions that would be roughly appropriate.
Lynch mobs do happen online. Because of my outspoken positions, I've sometimes been on the receiving end of them and thankful that hotheads can't push a rope through an internet connection. When I see a trend in a group of posts that is veering more and more towards lynch mob "Kill the sucker" mentality, sometimes I feel the need to step in. If you stop to consider it, group or mob violence coming from taking pleasure out of being angry is not a reasoned or adult response any more than taking pleasure out of the destruction of animals, and it can be equally destructive.
The issue I have is that (multiple) cats were killed in a horrific way and displayed for others to see. It wasn't one cat that could have been accidentally killed. And I agree 100% with writerwife in that I bet this is not his first kill. That was likely done at a much younger age and those cats/dogs/whatever animal he caught was probably buried. Is there a chance this man will not go to jail or receive medical/psychological treatment that he so desperately needs?
I agree with all of your post except the speculation. I don't know that (first kill or not) one way or the other and the incidents reported are enough anyway. I think the chances of this being a walk-away border between slim and none. High profile cases involving animals are just too much of a hot button for the public. My only concern is that the judge has a broad enough base of expertise, and enough outside competent professional help to make a proper judgment. Alabama has some seriously excellent judges in its history, so I'm hopeful.
Very sad thing to read. I am a cat owner. Last I checked killing animals is illegal. Not sure if jail is in order or mental facility? Obviously a ruling where this person can never own an animal or be near an animal. This person should be tried as a adult. Youthful offender because you're too chicken to take your medicine after what you did. Buck up! Take your medicine now! I couldn't tell by the picture if the person was male or female.
I'm getting really uncomfortable with the responses. I worked with the mentally ill when I was much younger, my wife retired from private practice counseling. Here's the thing. There are a variety of ways a person can come to such behaviors. Some of them are heinous and a strong reaction is justified. Others can be from such things as childhood abuse, where the child ends up suffering something akin to PTSD and doesn't have the same control as someone raised in a more normal environment.
I have no idea the background of this individual. We have courts and court mandated evaluations to sort that out. Yes, the acts, as described, are disturbing. I'm in agreement that tolerance to allow it continue would be very wrong. I also recognize that every one of us who eats meat also kills animals, or has them quietly killed for us somewhere where we don't see it. When you read that there were dismembered parts of a cat, remember how tasty those BBQ chicken wings at that Christian chicken fast food place were last night. Let those without sin...
Here is a concept to munch on as a side order. The core issue is one of "Was there pleasure taken out of the killing or torture of the animal?" The prelude to a mob mentality that is appearing on this thread is best responded to with a similar question: "Are you taking pleasure in the killing or torture of the individual who is accused of this crime?"
If you are getting jollies out of being angry and wishing ill will, at some level you are of the same mindset that you dislike.
Lynch mobs feed upon righteous outrage. This isn't a football game call from an umpire, this is a person's life. Disapprove, hold accountable, register your disturbance. Just do so like adults, not ten year olds.
Wanting to see this man legally brought to justice and held absolutely accountable for his actions is nothing other than being adult. The fact that anyone would attempt to try to justify his behavior makes ME uncomfortable.
? I don't think that anyone is suggesting that he doesn't need to be held accountable, or that there be a just and fair response to his heinous actions. What I rail against is recidivist knee-jerk "kill the sucker" idiocy. That is not justice in any way, shape or form. It is not my job to make you comfortable, it is your job in life to learn and grow and get beyond absolutist punitive thinking or be forever mired in hate.
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