[Historic Bessemer]

Spare the rod, spoil the child!!!

[zenjenn]

"rod" in Biblical terms refers to a shepherd's crook, a tool for guidance more than punishment.

Nicole, in theory I agree with you, but in practice there are a lot of people out there who have children and are unable and/or unwilling to discipline them at home. Yet those children still have a right to education. I have myself been a victim of being in the same classroom with children that disrupted, teased, offered me drugs, etc, as a student. And in California, it is the opposite - not only is there no corporal punishment, but a teacher dare not breathe wrong for fear of damaging a child's feelings and being sued for emotional abuse. These students went largely undisciplined and the teachers had their hands tied as to what to do about it. Unless the child is caught literally red-handed with drugs, weapons, or in a physical altercation with another student, they are free to run amok. My stepfather to this day is a public high school teacher in California, and a girl can come in wearing a bikini and he can't say anything about dress code infractions lest he be sued for sexual harassment!

I have known a few people who have attended schools with corporal punishment, including my husband (he attended private religious school in California). In no case have I ever heard of this sort of punishment being used frequently, commonly, or for any minor infraction. There was always a "process" in place (including a call to parents) before corporal punishment is employed. I'm sure there is some school someplace that takes it to the point of being abusive, but I wouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater because of that. I've seen the *other* extreme, where staff can do nothing, and it slowly erodes into a chaotic environment, and allowing that to occur is abusive to the OTHER kids who ARE behaving and trying to get an education.

I would love to be able to honestly believe that every kid is a good kid and that every parent will adequately handle discipline at home, but sadly that is just not the reality. I'm afraid there's a kid here or there who, even if by circumstance more than nature, are unlikely to respond to anything short of the treat of being humiliated in front of their peers. (And that is what the corporal punishment is more about, according to everyone I know who went to a school that allowed it. It wasn't a fear of pain that kept people in line - it was the EMBARASSMENT of being SPANKED by the principal. EVERYONE would know.) Obviously anyone utilizing corporal punishment that ends up sending a kid to the emergency room in stitches has crossed the line into child abuse. I don't think that kind of aberration plays into the larger issue here.

[MonaLisaVito]

I live in Morgan County and they do have it at my kid's school. You really have to be really bad here to get a paddling. My kids have never got one. They do know that it's done at their school and they are very aware of it.
I'm not crazy about someone else spanking my kid either, but I'm not worried at all that they will ever get one. I know how they behave at home and they know how they're expected to behave at school.

[NicoleC]

I guess I have been on the far end in my school experiences. Personally. I was subject to bullying and drugs and other bad influences in school, but somehow I managed to do the right thing. I thank my parents for that, not the paddle in the principles office that they were too scared to wield against the bullies, but were sadistic enough to wield against the more helpless kids.

But I don't agree about a "right" to a taxpayer funded education so I see no harm in kicking the spuds out of school and back into the hands of the people responsible for them: their parents. Even if it's a "right," rights can be removed for bad behavior. Ask any prisoner.

<snip: libertarian rant removed>

Anywho... I guess we have drifted way off topic here.

[leavin_florida]

When I grew up in Montana it was legal to use a paddle on kids. In high school the drilled holes in the paddle so the air would move through it faster. I think they could swat you 10 times - Most kids who got the paddle made the mistake of saying it didn't hurt and bore the brunt of the instructors anger. When my first husband was a kid, his mother said they brusied him pretty good. I doubt that it did anything more than make him embarassed and angry.

The worst abuse I've seen happen over and over in class rooms is emotional abuse. The wounds that go the deepest haunt us well into our adult years. On principle in East Fairview Elementry in North Dakota had a punishment box build in the entry of the school "bad kids" had to sit in the windowed box all day to feel the same of every soul that glanced at them.

[deesonic]

Got paddled a few times at school growing up in Huntsville in the 80s. I don't necessarily condone corporal punishment, but I'm not scarred for life by the experience either. The principal in my middle school (Stone Middle, the city's "inner city" middle school) carried his paddle in his back pocket. He was a serious disciplinarian and was hired to get our school under control.

I can remember him walking into the lunchroom with a stern look on his face, pointing to some kid who was acting up and motioning for him to follow into the hallway. After the principal and student exited, the lunch room would hush and you'd hear "WHAP...WHAP...WHAP!!!" Most of the time the kid would return with a smirk on his face and everyone would point and snicker. I think the real punishment was ridicule from your peers upon returning more than the paddling itself.

Again, I don't necessarily condone corporal punishment. But for some kids in some areas, it's the only discipline they receive from adults. Bottom line is, if parents discipline their kids at home, there's less chance an administrator or teacher will have to. But I think parents can opt out of corporal punishment in most districts now. And it is becoming less common to find school districts that practice this anymore.

[acrossthepond]

The lack of discipline in schools creates an atmosphere which is not conducive for learning. I doubt most of the people who are against corporal punishment see their kids in the true light in which they behave in school.

This reminds me of an incident while living in Germany where a young child was being disruptive in a department store in a checkout line. His mother went as far as to say she was allowing her son to grow up as a free spirit. A man behind her in line unscrewed a top off a jar of honey and dumped it over the kid's head. He looked at her and said " My mother allowed me to grow up as a free spirt"

I grew up in schools that allowed corporal punishment and was on the receiving end of a few "paddlings". Probably deserved them all. Bottom line is no teacher ever sought to create any kind of bodily harm. They were just establishing control of their classrooms.

So many of today's parents abdicate the necessary discipline of their children to the schools and then complain about the way it happens. Corporal Punishment is probably not necessary, but parents need to be involved in their childrens behavior at school. Meet with the teachers when there are parents meeting. Ask the hard questions "How does my child behave in class". Does he/she contribute to the learning environment or does he/she distract. Don't be a complainer, be a contributer to the learning of your children.

[HerbG]

Reading some of the comments in these posts reminds me of why I am so happy to be retired from school administration!

[MonaLisaVito]

There is a pretty lengthy thread going on about corporal punishment. It's a pretty interesting thread and has some thoughts from both sides.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/polit...al-should.html

[hed11877]

I went to Fairview high school for 7th to 10th grade. The school is right out side of Cullman. I got my arse wore out at least 3 times a week. They would paddle for anything,, late 3 times paddle, talk back paddle. I was there from Philly ( hick step dad) and the first thing that was asked when I when to school is "Why do I where my pants like a n!gger" They were a little baggy but not hanging off my butt or anything. So yes they paddle and yes I used to wear jogging pants under my jeans to ease the pain.