[marmac]

Southlander says-----"Start at $17 an hour "--------"The plant is closing"-------"Starting pay used to be $34 an hour"------

That tells me that even cutting wages in half wasn't enough to keep that plant open.

would wage concessions of cutting wages in half one more time made any difference ?-------($8.50 an hour)


Many times, wage concessions, ( in my long work experience of 45 years in the work force) buys you a few more years of lower wages til the plant closes anyway.

[MonkeyButler7000]

I am from Michigan and find this thread very interesting. For a long time, probably from the end of the Civil War, until very recently, much of the South was poor and lagged far behind the industrial North econoically. While people in Michigan were riding high on the manufacturing boom, they didn't lose any sleep about the problems people faced in Alabama. So don't feel bad about enjoying your state's success. The UAW and Michigan are reaping what they have sewn. As far as water resources go, at the rate things are going now, in the future all anyone will have to do is wave a $20 bill at Michigan and they can get all the water they want because Michigan will be so desperate for any money they can get. It's my home state, but a lot of people right up to Granholm and Co. have certainly made a mess of it.

[Bluefly]

^
I think you took my comment out of context - or perhaps I just wasn't clear.

I don't like unions. I think they serve a valuable purpose (or at least did) but overstepped their bounds a long time ago. They have crippled Michigan, an otherwise beautiful and quite livable state. This shake up will be good for lessening the grip of unions on Michigan.

My only point - perhaps poorly conveyed - was that the South is running out of water. It has mismanaged its growth and population and will soon need help in the same way Michigan has mismanaged its economy and needs help now.

I'm just saying that we're all going to need each other at some point so it's in our best interest to help one another through tough times (Michigan's now, perhaps Alabama's in 30 years if water keeps running dry) with a clear vision of using assistance to fix deep rooted problems.

[Southlander]

Back when that Delphi plant was paying $34 an hour wages, they'd have a layoff...yet some employees were working overtime at, yes, time and a half wages, plus more for holidays.
There were other tales of parts being trashed for no reason, jobs for which there was no work etc. etc.
It's the same as the overall story for General Motors: lots of waste, lots of mismanagement.

[MonkeyButler7000]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

^
This shake up will be good for lessening the grip of unions on Michigan.

I agree that they need a shake up. It is the only way things are really going to change. Unfortunately with a bailout, everyone gets a pass, as opposed to filing for bankruptcy which would force them to restructure labor agreements. It is another classic example of politicians of rboth parties punting the football on the though decisions so that way we will just have to go through the same thing a few years down the road. I do think that Alabama's Jeff Sessions tried to be a voice of reason, but the influence of the unions in the Democrat party (and even some of the Republicans in Michigan, if they want to get re-elected) was too powerful in this one

[Frankie117]

I think one problem is once you receive your first bailout (Chrysler in the 80's) you are suddenly less compelled to improve plant efficiency or productivity because there is an available safety net.

I know that "millions" of jobs rely on the big 3, but even if they file for bankruptcy, those jobs won't disappear over night. They still have tons of orders to fill for the railroads, they have contracts with the military, there is still some demand for their vehicles abroad. So I have doubts that the jobs would just go away. It is not possible.

But in the end, you can't really prevent economic downturn, no matter how much we try. It doesn't improve our situation much if we get further into debt.

On a further note, Kia is doing their hiring now. I wonder how many of those 50,000+ who applied will get the job to fill the 2,000 positions available?

[Southlander]

[quote=Bluefly;6732538My only point - perhaps poorly conveyed - was that the South is running out of water. It has mismanaged its growth and population and will soon need help in the same way Michigan has mismanaged its economy and needs help now.[/quote]
I think you're wrong here, although I have no authoritative references to back that statement. Atlanta has mismanaged growth (I don't know how you'd do that, though, with a big corrupt city government and dozens of surrounding county and city governing bodies) and is running out of water.

But Alabama has not. We haven't grown that fast.

As my old geology professor used to state, the South will rise again because the water is here. Alabama has many rivers, not just those tapped by or lusted after by Atlanta.

Economic slowdown will be good for growth and water usage, too.

[xlabel]

Originally Posted by Bluefly

This thread is rather sad. There was a time when Americans stood by one another shoulder to shoulder for the common good of all.

The Big 3 and UAW made mistakes, but taking joy and justification in undermining the livelihoods of families in a region that made the entire auto-dependent sprawling South even possible is deplorable.

You all might want want to keep in mind that water in the South is running out and the Great Lakes are the largest reservoir of fresh water in the world.

There's going to come a day when your politicians and business leaders come begging for a handout from the seven Great Lake states and two Canadian provinces responsible for stewarding the water, islands, sand dunes, cliffs, and beaches of the Great Lakes.

We will ask why you deserve such a handout after years of mismanaged and uncontrolled suburban development in a region that clearly could not sustain such development.

We will ask how your leaders didn't see this coming and what a little water is going to do when the culture has proven unwilling to adjust over the previous two or three decades.

You, too, will not have answers. You, too, will just need help to get through another week.

The people of the Great Lakes will not soon forget how they were treated through this ordeal. Best not bite the hand that may soon be filling your water bowl.

Wishful thinking, there are a myriad of solutions to the South's water problems without touching a drop of the Great Lakes. It's not even cost effective to move water from the Great lakes to the deep south. Methinks the hardworking non-Great lakes people of America will not soon forget the scam that is bailout and it's going to show on the dealership floor.