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Old 09-14-2010, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,129,813 times
Reputation: 1818

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
It would be nice to see the "bush" villages become more self-sufficient via economic development, wouldn't it? If you disagree, why? Why wouldn't you want them to be economically self-sufficient?

I have been in schools in the "bush" that had more spending per child (2-3 times) than urban schools. Has that education helped the villages become more self-sufficient? When your country is running out of money, every expenditure should be on the table for review. Every one, including the military.
You aren't posting rational discussion, but rationalizations for some very tired, old, worthless concepts.

We are all Alaskans, we are all in this together. The fact that some given bush village is not currently pouring money into the State's coffers is not a reason to close it down and force everyone living there to relocate to a region that you feel should be supported.

After all, to cut the costs we might just go after the biggest expense first, eh? That would probably be Anchorage, though the Mat-Su Valley could actually be a better target. What does Anchorage produce? How, for that matter, does any urban area of Alaska contribute more than they take? The fact is that today, as it has been for the entire history of Alaska, the urban areas do not add to the economy and the money virtually all comes from the Bush.

I would point out that the Anchorage school system is almost entirely funded by State and Federal money; as opposed to the North Slope Borough that puts more than three times as much of our local money, per student, into the education system than Anchorage budgets from their government grants.

The bush is already self sufficient... to the degree that it supports the entire State, including you and the roads and other services you have that the bush does not. Maybe our first cost cutting action should be that you personally no longer be allowed to use anything provided by government. Except perhaps an airport and the road leading to it on your way out of Alaska! :-)

 
Old 09-14-2010, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,129,813 times
Reputation: 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
There are plenty of examples of wasteful spending by the Federal gov't in Alaska. Much of it is in the bush.
But none that you can specify, other than claiming nobody should get something you don't, or get more than you do.

But in fact you are a taker. The bush is where they money you take comes from.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,129,813 times
Reputation: 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Two mineral management agencies (one state, one Federal)
Two forest management agencies (one state, one Federal)
Two wildlife management agencies....and on and on.
Duplicity at all levels.
That is grossly ignorant.

First, the State manages their resources for the benefit of Alaska only. The Feds of course work for the nation as a whole. Two very distinctly separate goals. If you eliminate one of them, either the country loses or Alaska does...

But second, there is no duplicity. They do not manage the same things. If management of any given entity by one were taken over by the other there is no reason to think that any level of funding or employment would change. The only difference is that you want to burden Alaskans with the cost of supporting what rightly belongs to and should be paid for by the entire nation.

Which is to say, like most "conservative" rightwing nutcases, you like good sound bites that a fool can "understand", and won't give a moment's thought to actually solving problems.

Try being rational, rather than rationalizing a load of ideological tripe.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 04:49 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,445,432 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
But none that you can specify, other than claiming nobody should get something you don't, or get more than you do.

But in fact you are a taker. The bush is where they money you take comes from.
Other than the North Slope Borough (oil and gas), and fisheries, what other money-spinning ventures are out there in the bush? Please.

My experience with bush Alaska is limited to the villages of Hughes, Galena, Koyukuk, Allakaket, Nulato, Kaltag, Kobuk, Kivalina, Shishmaref, Bettles, Unalakleet, Wiseman, Eagle, Eagle Village, Chicken, Dot Lake, Tanacross, Mentasta, Circle, Stevens Village, Livengood, Minto, and the Brooks Range, Alaska Range, oil storage facility at Drift River, Kustatin Wildlife Refuge, and...and...I forgot some. Yup, limited experience.

Certainly the bush could be more self-reliant if the Federal gov't would convey more land to the state.

Oh, I remember now: Umiat, Prudhoe Bay, Happy Valley, Chandalar, Cold Foot, the Yukon, Fortymile, Tanana, Chena, Chatanika, Salcha, Sagavanirktok, Colville and Putuligayuk Rivers; Berry Creek, the many tributaries of the Tanana, Yukon, and Fortymile. Hmm, what else?

Oh, and those places are all places where I worked.

Last edited by Teak; 09-14-2010 at 05:22 AM..
 
Old 09-14-2010, 04:54 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,445,432 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
That is grossly ignorant.

First, the State manages their resources for the benefit of Alaska only. The Feds of course work for the nation as a whole. Two very distinctly separate goals. If you eliminate one of them, either the country loses or Alaska does...

But second, there is no duplicity. They do not manage the same things.
So, a wolf on Federal land is different from a wolf on state land? What if the Federal wolf walks OUT OF the Federal land and ON TO state land? Then what happens?

Same with trees. Do the trees on BLM land in, say, the Beaver Creek Management area differ from the trees just outside the Beaver Creek Management area? Do they need to be managed by two separate gov't bureaucracies?

No, we need to eliminate gov't duplicity. I know that it is a BIG idea, but revolutionary ideas are often that way.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,129,813 times
Reputation: 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak View Post
Here is one for you. It's called 'projection'. I don't support Palin, but I do support her right to have an opinion that may be different from mine.
He'd probably agree with Palin's statement that perhaps the bush villages should be relocated (i.e., the people should be dumped off in Anchorage).

That statement does not relate my opinion and it is WRONG for you to project that onto me.
That is not an instance of "projection".

The fact is that Sarah Palin is smart enough to understand the significance of her policies. You don't seem to be. Both of you clearly state that you support actions that would simply destroy the ability of people to live in bush locations. Palin is smart enough know that is what she wants to do, and dumb enough to be very forthright in saying that is what she wants.

Of course I can't tell why you support those same policies, and then deny what they would do. You might be dishonest. You might also be that dumb. Could be you are just far to naive about how the real world functions. As long as you continue to post irrational commentary to rationalize those concept you'll have to live with the fact that everyone reading what you write is going to choose of those three options to decide where to pin the tail onto you.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 05:08 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,445,432 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
That is not an instance of "projection".

The fact is that Sarah Palin is smart enough to understand the significance of her policies. You don't seem to be. Both of you clearly state that you support actions that would simply destroy the ability of people to live in bush locations. Palin is smart enough know that is what she wants to do, and dumb enough to be very forthright in saying that is what she wants.

Of course I can't tell why you support those same policies, and then deny what they would do. You might be dishonest. You might also be that dumb. Could be you are just far to naive about how the real world functions. As long as you continue to post irrational commentary to rationalize those concept you'll have to live with the fact that everyone reading what you write is going to choose of those three options to decide where to pin the tail onto you.
Hey, if I had come onto these threads a spoutin' hatred against Palin and Miller you would all have embraced me. The fact that I prefer to present and discuss positive ideas that OPPOSE your viewpoint is what rankles, eh?

So, what policies are you talking about that will destroy the ability of bush people to make a living?

Road to Nome? Well, yes, a few trappers might have their traplines crossed, but it would make it easier for other trappers to gain access themselves. Trappers in the Fairbanks area use right-of-ways and logging roads to access their traplines.

Pebble Mine? Well, yes, digging an open pit mine could damage the headwater streams that feed into Bristol Bay. But, there are ways to mine sustainably; Fort Knox hasn't destroyed Fairbanks yet. I was around for the dire predictions about the TAPS and oil/gas development on the North Slope.

Come on, Floyd. Please discuss ideas; please stop trying to shoot the bearer of opinions different from yourself.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 05:11 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,445,432 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd_Davidson View Post
That is not an instance of "projection".
Yes it is projection. I support Miller, thus, she projects that I support every idea floated by Sarah Palin. That is the definition of projection. And it is an example of poor logic. Her premise: he supports Palin's ideas, does not derive directly from: he supports Miller. You see, Miller and Palin are two different, separate, individuals. And simply because Palin endorses Miller doesn't mean that Miller supports every idea that Palin has. And people that support Miller might not accept all of his ideas either.

Last edited by Teak; 09-14-2010 at 05:21 AM..
 
Old 09-14-2010, 05:19 AM
 
2,473 posts, read 3,445,432 times
Reputation: 2265
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree_jj View Post
McAdams would represent the status quo, i.e., fight for all of the earmark spending that he could obtain for Alaska. This continues in the tradition of Ted Stevens and Don Young.
Yes, that is what I wrote. Did you read the News-Miner article that was linked to in the first post? Scott McAdams says that he will support earmarks as they were supported in the past by Ted Stevens and Don Young. The term status quo doesn't necessarily carry a negative connotation. It does indicate, however, that he might not be as concerned about the growing Federal deficit as his opponent Joe Miller.

Example of usage: "My wife and I are happily married, going into Year 31. I like the status quo of our marriage." That is a positive statement.
 
Old 09-14-2010, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Bethel, Alaska
21,337 posts, read 30,931,907 times
Reputation: 13634
Tell us what needs to be changed out here in Bush Alaska...
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