Miller "I'm Not Talkin'" (Hope: school, moving, food)

[AADAD]

You are full of facts, few of them accurate.

All children in America now have health insurance
No person can be excluded from coverage
No condition pre or current can exclude a person from coverage
Insurance companies have voluntarily insured previously uninsured children
Medicare health care clinics for the elderly now are funded and doctors are reimbursed at higher rates. More clinics are being built
Chronic conditions leading to high cost admissions and stays will be controlled
by a system of doctor patient relationship....

There are nearly 100 more benefits of the bill which I could name.


Your emotions IMO have gotten the best of your thought process. Thanks for staying on topic.

[Sapperdoc]

Would you like to specifically refute those stated facts, or just hand wave them generally?

I find few of the facts in your response accurate. See, I can do it too.

Believe what you like, sir. I agree that there are some good consequences of this bill. I never stated that blanket health care for children was bad. But I still maintain that governmental regulation will invariably lead to, amazingly enough, more governmental regulation. The same cost analysis assessment process which (ironically) led privatized insurance companies to rate or refuse based on what it would likely cost them to have you as a customer, will be applied to the national health system by the governing agency in order to keep costs DOWN. Now, if you don't believe that will happen, well, then you are not as smart as I give you credit for. Like I said, it already started. Don't take my word for it, go ask your nearest tanning salon owner. HE felt the difference immediately. Sooner or later, most of us will.

As far as my emotions, yeah, screwing with my individual freedoms will make me crankier than usual. Just consider it a consequence of my background. You and I will have to agree to disagree on the socialist health care bill, and we'll continue to not agree to the litigation forthcoming in support of maximizing that bill.

Ironically, it sounds like we will continue to agree that Miller is NOT here to help. In the spirit of staying on topic.

[AADAD]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts. Here is the law. It is important that people are not influenced by people who don't know what they are talking about.....agree on Miller.

Implementation Timeline - Kaiser Health Reform

[bmw335xi]

Originally Posted by AADAD

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, not their own facts. Here is the law. It is important that people are not influenced by people who don't know what they are talking about.....agree on Miller.

Implementation Timeline - Kaiser Health Reform

I used to live in Australia and experienced their health care first hand. I thought it was great. I was so impressed because I received the same level of care I do in the states. Health care isn't a big issue like it is here. The majority of people are happy with their system. People who need urgent care or prefer next day appointments can go to any private clinic/hospital. You can even buy private health care insurance.

The problem with our health care bill and the reason it needs to be reformed or repealed is it puts the burden on businesses to pay for it. Forcing businesses with 50+ employees (not large at all) to pay for their employees health insurance or pay a fee per employee. This will take a huge chunk of change away from them, which will hinder hiring, hurt our economy, and pass the expense to the customer. If we want a universal health care it needs to be funded by the government and not businesses small and large. This can be done by increasing taxes on tobacco products and liquor products.

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by AADAD

You are full of facts, few of them accurate.

All children in America now have health insurance
No person can be excluded from coverage
No condition pre or current can exclude a person from coverage
Insurance companies have voluntarily insured previously uninsured children
Medicare health care clinics for the elderly now are funded and doctors are reimbursed at higher rates. More clinics are being built
Chronic conditions leading to high cost admissions and stays will be controlled
by a system of doctor patient relationship....

There are nearly 100 more benefits of the bill which I could name.


Your emotions IMO have gotten the best of your thought process. Thanks for staying on topic.

The way it was, nobody, including illegal aliens, could be denied emergency care and ambulance transportation.

The way it was, the same applied for the handicap, elderly, or anybody in S.S., Medicare, Madicaid, Welfare, and so forth. All of these already had "government" health coverage.

A lot of clinics and doctors are refusing Medicare patients, because the Government does not pay treatment cost fully.

Under Obamacare, "children" to the age of 26" must have health coverage under the parent's or parents insurance.

20 States that don't want Obamacare:
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion...a1vYcuhyKUdoDO

The way it's now, several insurance companies have decided not to provide health insurance. For example, this is one in Boston, is one of several:
Firms cancel health coverage - The Boston Globe

[Sapperdoc]

Gosh, that's a neat website. Shiny wrapper. It is a presentation, an interpretation, a simplification if you will. I'm not saying that it is wrong, but I AM saying it is not the whole story. There are several things wrapped into that bill that didn't show up on Kaiser's helpful little slideshow. Like a whole slew of new IRS jobs. And that taxation. But whatever. You can base your stance on a website built by a company to help "Joe Plumber" understand his new medical care package, and how it works. Me, I read the draft of the bill. It was big, it was complicated, it read a lot like stereo instructions.

You can point at facts which support your stance, while summarily dismissing the facts that might give credence to mine. Interesting. And ironic, given that they came from the same document. Whatever. "I'm rubber you're glue" makes for a boring debate. So go and be right in your own little world man, and for the record I sincerely hope that *you* are correct and *I* am wrong. Problem is, past experience tells me otherwise. "Help" very rarely comes without "strings" when our government is concerned. Be right. Please be right.

Since we can't seem to agree to disagree, I'll step out of the thread, get your last word in and enjoy yourself. As Pops used to say "Boy, you can't argue with idjits, they'll pull you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Oh, and Miller still sucks. In deference to the topic gods.

[AADAD]

next time you fly on a plane or go into an emergency room you may learn about what facts are relevant and which are not. good luck youngin'

[RayinAK]

Originally Posted by AADAD

next time you fly on a plane or go into an emergency room you may learn about what facts are relevant and which are not. good luck youngin'

I have a good one for you, posted by Mouser at the Political Forum. The last paragraph tells you why so many people oppose Obamacare. But instead of reading "Democrat" and "Republican," just imagine that it's "liberal" and "conservative" since not all Republicans are conservative, and not all Democrats are "as" liberal:

Posted by Mouser at another forum:
If a Republican doesn't like guns, he doesn’t buy one.
If a Democrat doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.


If a Republican is a vegetarian, he doesn’t eat meat.
If a Democrat is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.


If a Republican is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A Democrat wonders who is going to take care of him.


If a Republican doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Democrats demand that those they don't like be shut down.


If a Republican is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A Democrat non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced.


If a Republican decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A Democrat demands that the rest of us pay for his.

[RedJacket]

Originally Posted by Sapperdoc

Maybe Richard Pryor had the right idea, and we should get a "none of the above" option on the ballot.

You do. Its called a write-in.

[Sapperdoc]

Originally Posted by AADAD

next time you fly on a plane or go into an emergency room you may learn about what facts are relevant and which are not. good luck youngin'

"Youngin?" Really? This just took a turn for the hilarious. You know what they say about assumptions. I assure you I'm quite familiar with both airplanes and ERs, sir. I've had more than my fill of both to last a lifetime. I suppose you think everyone who disagrees with your POV is living in their mother's basement. Gosh you sure pegged me quick.

As far as the Richard Pryor thing goes, I guess some people have no sense of humor.