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Old 12-08-2010, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,419,110 times
Reputation: 1828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
At mid day, the sun doesn't come up above the horizon, but you can read book in the light that does come up, and nowhere do you show a photo of that "twilight" I referred to, instead you are giving the impression that it is total darkness for the entire winter which is misleading.

Didn't you understand when cjg5 even pointed out the twilight picture as a favorite. It shows twilight particularly well because there are street lights and the headlights from vehicles to compare to, all with a partly cloudy sky, thus providing a good perspective on just exactly how bright it is.

That isn't "misleading", and it certainly indicated something other than total darkness. (It's a vastly superior image to the one you posted, in virtually all respects.)

Quote:
Legally it is dark because the sun doesn't rise above the Horizon, but there is still "daylight" regardless for a few hours a day, and you aren't showing that which is disingenuous on your part, trying to portray it as something else.
It is not "legally" dark. That's just stupid. It's known as "Civil Twilight", which means the sun is within 6 degrees of the horizon.

Quote:
Here is a photo from the Barrow Sea Cam with the time date stamp on the bottom (2:19 PM in the afternoon)... Seems it isn't all the darkness you like to pretend it is.
Big deal. I provided a picture with Exif showing it was taken at "2010:11:27 15:27:38" and it wasn't as dark as the picture you show from December 12. Are you getting "the picture" yet?

In addition to all of the above stupidity, you seem to have missed the simple statement that I made about waiting until December 21, 22, and 23 to spend time photographing twilight. The point is, who cares how light it is one November 27 or December 12! What people actually will want to look at is how dark it is at Noon on the shortest day of the year.

Use your head, be patient, and you'll not look like that post made you!

Last edited by Rance; 01-24-2011 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,419,110 times
Reputation: 1828
Quote:
Originally Posted by SityData View Post
There are lots of people that believe Barrow has 30 days of night.
there is a whole group of people that still believe that the people of Alaska live in six months of darkness and six months of light.

Showing how it 'really' is with a camera can be very deceptive in many different ways & methods. Best bet is just talk to locals to find out the truth.
The best bet is a local with photographs.

Durn... I think there are some of those!

(It is necessary to actually look at the photographs, and to read what is said about them though. Ignoring the discussion and not even bothering to look at the pictures will get you an article from Starlite9.)

Last edited by Rance; 01-24-2011 at 07:02 PM..
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Point Hope Alaska
4,320 posts, read 3,523,348 times
Reputation: 1146
I have worked in Barrow many times - I must admit I would never want to live there, I am no photographer that is for sure, I can't compete with Floyd, it is obvioius he is an expert.

This is typical of what it looks like once the day is "dusk" or twilight or whatever the correct word is. I don't claim to be an expert but as I remember Barrow; there is light everyday of the year, although it is very short lived on the shortest day of the year in December, it might last perhaps one and a half hours, if that.

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Old 12-08-2010, 08:42 PM
 
5,564 posts, read 7,660,527 times
Reputation: 5830
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
At mid day, the sun doesn't come up above the horizon, but you can read book in the light that does come up, and nowhere do you show a photo of that "twilight" I referred to, instead you are giving the impression that it is total darkness for the entire winter which is misleading.

Legally it is dark because the sun doesn't rise above the Horizon, but there is still "daylight" regardless for a few hours a day, and you aren't showing that which is disingenuous on your part, trying to portray it as something else.

Nothing changes with you at all.

Here is a photo from the Barrow Sea Cam with the time date stamp on the bottom (2:19 PM in the afternoon)... Seems it isn't all the darkness you like to pretend it is.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Actually the time stamp says 5:04 right now, and it's showing the same pictures that is live. I think you somehow embedded the camera?


Now please tell me why does everything always have to be a fight? I mean really! Just find something better to do. If you actually read, and take the time to comprehend what's been posted you would not think there is actually total darkness 24/7.
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,419,110 times
Reputation: 1828
Isn't this just too quaint for words:
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9
One might get the distinct impression that someone never changes, alright!

It would be correct, would it not, to say that you are trying to mislead people into believing that
  1. It's always pitch black in Barrow on December the 8th,
  2. That you can read a time stamp, and
  3. That you do know how to post valid HTML code.
Clearly not one of the three are true.

(Plus you apparently didn't even know what you posted! Hence I guess it comes as no surprise if you didn't know what I posted, even when you quoted it! )

Oh, the irony of it all...
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,419,110 times
Reputation: 1828
Quote:
Originally Posted by SityData View Post
This is typical of what it looks like once the day is "dusk" or twilight or whatever the correct word is.
Well, great works of art aside, your photograph is a very good bit of documentation. There's a lot of "stuff" in the picture which might only be of interest to a photographer, and one in Barrow for that matter. The moon looks odd in the haze. There are all sorts of interesting things in the snow drift, one of which is the service access to the sewer/water lines from the utilitor. I find pictures like that one to be just fascinating!
Quote:
I don't claim to be an expert but as I remember Barrow; there is light everyday of the year, although it is very short lived on the shortest day of the year in December, it might last perhaps one and a half hours, if that.
Today, December 9th, the start of Civil Twilight will be at 11:32 AM and will last until 3:07 PM, for 3 hours and 35 minutes during which the light is at least barely enough to read by. On December the 21st, it starts at 11:55 AM and lasts until 2:55 PM, for exactly 3 hours of twilight, and of course that is the least amount of twilight we'll get. We lose 35 minutes of twilight, but a bigger distinction between December 9th and December 21st will be that any day with heavy cloud cover will be much darker than any day with only little or no cloud cover. (And most days will be much like it is right this moment, with light snow and an overcast that reduces visibility to 4 miles; which is to say at midday it is going to be very very dim.)

Yet, regardless of that, it makes no sense at all for me to waste any amount of time documenting the twilight available on December 9th. Nobody cares!

On my webpage is a photo showing what December 21st looks like. This one has been there for three years, and was taken in 2007. It isn't as useful as the one referenced earlier simply because there are no other lights to compare the brightness to.



And it is certain that, all things being equal, with a project to show what Barrow is like after the sun sets on November 18th it is reasonable to think I might just spend 3 hours on December 21st photographing twilight in Barrow. I even know which book I'm going to get a shot of!

But, poor dimlite will have to wait for exactly the right twilight.
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
52 posts, read 143,709 times
Reputation: 68
Nice photos. I have been to several places in Alaska, but not there. I would like to visit one day. Is the Top Of The World hotel still there?
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,419,110 times
Reputation: 1828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesd1967 View Post
Nice photos. I have been to several places in Alaska, but not there. I would like to visit one day. Is the Top Of The World hotel still there?
Barrow is definitely a great place for the adventurous to visit.

The Top Of The World Hotel is still here. There are also both the Airport Inn and the King Eider Inn downtown. Actually those two are very close to the Alaska Airlines terminal, which makes them convenient in that respect. All three of the hotels have a character all their own. I personally would most highly recommend the Top Of The World Hotel, but would not discourage anyone who chose one of the other two.

There is also the NARL Hotel, but it's a different bag of worms altogether. It's actually a dormitory style place run by the Barrow Arctic Science Consortium (BASC) to house visiting scientist. If they are not full (which they might be in the summer) they will rent a room to anyone. The biggest problem is that it is located 6 miles from town, out at NARL (well, actually on the Ilisagvik College campus, as there is no Naval Arctic Research Lab anymore, but it's still NARL to everyone anyway). Rates are cheap, services are non-existant, and it sometimes is the best place or the only place.

Whatever, Barrow is an all day adventure, every day.
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Point Hope Alaska
4,320 posts, read 3,523,348 times
Reputation: 1146
Wow what an awesome photograph floyd; Dec 21st and the sun is high in the sky ???? blink blink; um, er, is that the sun in the photograph ? it can't be. You said the sun doesn't come back above the horizon until near the end of Jan the 23 or24,

Something doesn't make any sense with your 'photo'. what is that yellow ball in the sky ? the moon ? A street light ?

How is it possible that your photograph was taken on Dec 21st ???

something doesn't make sense the EXIF data says Dec 21st

and the sun is visible !!! wow you are an expert !! The sun appears a month early !!! and it is HIGH in the sky !!!



It may surprise you: The shortest sunset is not the same day as the shortest day.

Year's Earliest Sunset not on Year's Shortest Day

http://www.idialstars.com/eass.htm

The shortest day is Dec21st NOT DEC 22ND.

Last edited by SityData; 12-09-2010 at 10:44 AM.. Reason: Added link
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
5,737 posts, read 12,052,098 times
Reputation: 3848
I have never been to Alaska but all these photos are really cool. This thread just happened to catch my eye so I wanted to drop in and say great pics

Being from Florida (originally) I dont think I could handle Barrow cold lol
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