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Old 03-22-2011, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,560,731 times
Reputation: 1829

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
kids in high school here can't hardly read or do basic math.
Life requires significant reading skills... to make up for people like yourself who are not logical enough to know when they have said exactly the opposite of what they mean! (You've actually said that the kids read well.)

Quote:
Yet the teachers are getting constant pay raises, our spending per pupil is among the highest in the nation, and people are losing their homes here because of the sky high property taxes resulting from the power the unions have in this state.
Are you seriously going to try claiming that teachers getting pay raises are the cause of any of the ills you mention? Or that not giving teachers pay raises would cure any of those ills? Or that there is any justification at all for connecting those ills to teachers in any way?

Logically, this is absurd!

Quote:
If the teachers want the kind of money they're demanding here they better earn it instead of indoctrinating them with socialist ideology (something I've seen a lot of here).
You need a better education yourself... in civics.

Teachers are people who have been trained to a high skill level in the art of instructing pupils in order to effectively cause them to learn. Summary: teachers teach.

You are complaining that teachers teach what you think is the wrong subject matter; but teachers teach. Teachers do not choose the subject matter. That is what school boards, the State's Department of Education, the Federal Department of Education, and literally hundreds or thousands of University departments of Education determine. You are targetting the wrong people, which is absurdly illogical.

Quote:
Myself and my brothers had to go to private schools to get a decent education. We were hit with taxes for the bad schools and tuition, and it was a struggle. I have reasons for my opinions and they didn't come from Fox. I don't own a TV and only watch it at relatives' and friends' homes, and I don't run over there to watch Fox News.
You don't seem to have gotten your money's worth from that private school.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Barrow, Alaska
3,539 posts, read 6,560,731 times
Reputation: 1829
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
There's no reason the people should be forced to pay higher taxes while their own incomes are dropping, to pay for government workers to get pay increases. We're not talking about employees of private, for profit business here.
Right. In fact we are talking about people who on the average make less money for the same work than those in the private sector.

So you want government to pay them even less, in order to attract even fewer well qualified people, which can of course only have the effect of making government less efficient and more costly so that taxes will necessarily have to increase if essential services and functions of government are to continue.

The trouble is that you don't agree with which services and functions are a valid government activity, and illogically target the least responsible people with an irrational counter productive "solution" that will not solve any known problem.

That's perhaps not too smart, eh?

Quote:
And forget about trying the marxist class warfare thing with me, I don't buy into "class" and I don't serve another "class," and I have no desire to work for others anyways. A truly free person should have a goal to be their own "employer" anyways.
Strange you should bring that up and deny the morality of exactly what you are saying you want to do to other people.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,509,099 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
When it comes to the government, the benefit of the people as a whole should always come first, not some individual government employee. There's no reason the people should be forced to pay higher taxes while their own incomes are dropping, to pay for government workers to get pay increases. We're not talking about employees of private, for profit business here.

And forget about trying the marxist class warfare thing with me, I don't buy into "class" and I don't serve another "class," and I have no desire to work for others anyways. A truly free person should have a goal to be their own "employer" anyways.
Sooo- your kids shouldn't have teachers? And you don't want a police officer to catch the bad guy for you? How about if your house catches fire? Maybe you would prefer to not have roads to drive on? EVERYTHING about your modern life depends on public workers. You HAVE to pay taxes to get anything in return. You can't have something for nothing.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,509,099 times
Reputation: 1120
Myself and my brothers had to go to private schools to get a decent education.

Looks like your private school had the inability to teach you proper grammar.

Again- on teachers. Could it be that the society we live in has much bigger problems than teachers can possibly handle in the classroom situation? Sure- there are kids that can't read, write, and do math at the highschool level. There were 50 years ago too. Back then, they kicked them out and made them pump gas or work in a factory instead of forcing the school to babysit until they "age out". Now we've got 20 year olds sitting in freshman English with 14 year olds because of No Child Left Behind. What am I supposed to do with that? Is that because my luxurious salary has been raised to a whooping $34,000 a year... after 8 years of experience AND no raises in 3. You cannot connect the ineffectiveness of American education with the meager salaries that teachers earn.

Let me toss it to you this way- What if your house got broken into? Chances are the theif will not get caught. Does that mean that the police force is ineffective and can't catch criminals because they make too much money? How about this one- The roads you drive on are covered in pot-holes. The roads are crappy because the street crew is making too much money, right?
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Old 03-22-2011, 09:14 AM
 
21,804 posts, read 27,826,421 times
Reputation: 16429
They tell us that our tax dollars are being put to good use fighting for the "rights" of those in foreign countries but piece by piece we're stripping rights away from our own citizens. And our own citizens are doing most of the footwork to ensure that that happens. Whoever -- and whatever--pulled this off did so very well.

The war on teachers is just the beginning. The real target is public education.

God help us.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,509,099 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
They tell us that our tax dollars are being put to good use fighting for the "rights" of those in foreign countries but piece by piece we're stripping rights away from our own citizens. And our own citizens are doing most of the footwork to ensure that that happens. Whoever -- and whatever--pulled this off did so very well.

The war on teachers is just the beginning. The real target is public education.

God help us.
I have my own hypothesis about the masses' duty to God and Country.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: AK
848 posts, read 1,667,944 times
Reputation: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
When it comes to the government, the benefit of the people as a whole should always come first, not some individual government employee. There's no reason the people should be forced to pay higher taxes while their own incomes are dropping, to pay for government workers to get pay increases. We're not talking about employees of private, for profit business here.
Floyd pretty much pointed this out already, but the government workers being targeted are the ones who are being paid the least. Why isn't there public outcry to cut the benefits of politicians?
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 8,125,235 times
Reputation: 8886
Carl Gatto?? Sounds like a relative of the Gambino family.

Because of Alaska's remote location, and probably because of its climate, the state (from what I've read) has a pretty difficult task in retaining (and attracting) quality teachers.

Passing a bill like Gatto has introduced certainly won't help that cause. But, conservatives seem hellbent on privatizing the profits and socializing the losses, for just about everything.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Owasso, OK
1,224 posts, read 3,509,099 times
Reputation: 1120
Quote:
Originally Posted by bortstc37 View Post
Floyd pretty much pointed this out already, but the government workers being targeted are the ones who are being paid the least. Why isn't there public outcry to cut the benefits of politicians?
That's what I've been wanting to know too. Why are our fellow citizens making such a fuss over public employees when their own representatives are raking it in hand-over-fist with no opposition? We should all be on the same side, but the media has helped create a rift between the citizenry. A house divided cannot stand. We need to all be working together here.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:23 AM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 8,125,235 times
Reputation: 8886
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigre79 View Post
How so? Why do you have the right to require your employer to negotiate with you? Why can't they just fire everyone on the spot and hire new employees?
There's a very direct correlation between the demise of the unions and the wealth gap and inequality in America.

We're right back to where we were in 1929.
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