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Old 09-12-2011, 04:00 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,381,051 times
Reputation: 6446

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
I said return the fishing to the subsistence users. The people that actually live in the area. As it is now the vast majority of fishing goes to carpetbaggers from down south. The come in, steal the fish and then take the money back down south.
I agree completely. This goes back to the days before Alaska was a State. Washington State and Oregon literally raped Alaska of its resources for decades. When Alaska was granted statehood, those fishing permits were handed out in perpetuity, and they continue to rape Alaska's resources.

Alaskan waters and Alaskan salmon belong to Alaskans first and foremost, not the lesser-48 scum. It is another fine example of how corrupt Alaska's legislature is to allow this rape of our resources to continue. Only Alaskan residents should be allowed to obtain fishing permits. This corrupt perpetuity nonsense also needs to end.
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Old 09-13-2011, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,330,114 times
Reputation: 1955
Default Something To Think About

Quote:
Originally Posted by warptman View Post
This is sick....

The Mudflats | State of Alaska Supports Pebble Partnership’s Attempt to Silence Alaskans (http://www.themudflats.net/2011/08/08/state-of-alaska-supports-pebble-partnerships-attempt-to-silence-alaskans/ - broken link)

Basically, I am neither for nor against "Pebble", but let me throw this thought out there to ponder over:

I think most people are looking for a "final" ruling by the courts or other authorities as to whether Pebble is going to happen or not. Well, when is a ruling by man ever final? Any "final" ruling can be overturned, voted out, amended, or changed by future generations. Pebble may very well be "defeated" and left unmined in our life-times. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is literally billions of dollars worth of copper and gold in that deposit...it is amazingly huge...it may very well be the largest such deposit in the entire world. What's going to happen when the value of that deposit becomes trillions of dollars, instead of "merely billions"?

With that huge carrot dangling out there, sooner or later they are going to come back and mine it. Maybe not for 20, 50, or even 100 years. Might very well be later than sooner, but they will come back. When other sources for copper become depleted, the price of copper will eventually skyrocket...it's the simple law of supply and demand. When there is no other place left to get copper, they will come back.

I don't see how this fight is ever going to be over...not in our lifetimes. For our generation, it will never be "over", it will be ongoing and never ending. There is just too much at stake, on both sides, to think it will be "finalized" by some ruling of a court, politician, etc. It's like tossing a big juicy steak in the back yard of a hungry dog...and telling him "ok, we'll let you look, but don't touch".
I can see the justification and logic on both sides of this...what a dilemma.


Bud
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Old 09-13-2011, 01:05 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,381,051 times
Reputation: 6446
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Basically, I am neither for nor against "Pebble", but let me throw this thought out there to ponder over:

I think most people are looking for a "final" ruling by the courts or other authorities as to whether Pebble is going to happen or not. Well, when is a ruling by man ever final? Any "final" ruling can be overturned, voted out, amended, or changed by future generations. Pebble may very well be "defeated" and left unmined in our life-times. However, it doesn't change the fact that there is literally billions of dollars worth of copper and gold in that deposit...it is amazingly huge...it may very well be the largest such deposit in the entire world. What's going to happen when the value of that deposit becomes trillions of dollars, instead of "merely billions"?

With that huge carrot dangling out there, sooner or later they are going to come back and mine it. Maybe not for 20, 50, or even 100 years. Might very well be later than sooner, but they will come back. When other sources for copper become depleted, the price of copper will eventually skyrocket...it's the simple law of supply and demand. When there is no other place left to get copper, they will come back.

I don't see how this fight is ever going to be over...not in our lifetimes. For our generation, it will never be "over", it will be ongoing and never ending. There is just too much at stake, on both sides, to think it will be "finalized" by some ruling of a court, politician, etc. It's like tossing a big juicy steak in the back yard of a hungry dog...and telling him "ok, we'll let you look, but don't touch".
I can see the justification and logic on both sides of this...what a dilemma.


Bud
The Alaska Supreme Court has already ruled. In a 3-1 decision the court ruled to allow the vote on the initiative. If the initiative passes, it will be ruled unconstitutional. If the initiative does not pass, then there are no constitutional issues.

So the end result will be the same, only the State is allowed to determine whether resources will be developed, not boroughs, cities, or towns. But at least they get their vote.

Source: Supreme Court Allows
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Old 09-15-2011, 11:52 PM
 
18,999 posts, read 24,517,429 times
Reputation: 10421
Let's put it this way. A hell of a lot of Alaskan residents would be put out of work if it weren't for the west coast salmon industry and we can't do it without Washington State. I just put an entire freezer van on the barge for Seattle full of premium grade smoked salmon (And that's just a portion of the commercial stuff.), much of it caught by Washington seiners but quite a bit by Alaskan permit holders as well...most of it worked by village residents, and I pay a better wage than average to the people who work in processing. Just paid a $2000 electric bill for one month and a water bill about half that size to the local municipality and local taxes up the ass.

I work with about ten different sports lodges, all of which provide jobs to locals and sometime the local labor force can't fill all those jobs, so evil lower 48ers come up to do that. Gives college kids and retirees and people simply in between some income and in turn they put money into the local economies here.

There are quite a few businesses here on POW and in Alaska as a whole that would curl up and die without the salmon industry and like it or not...that industry highly depends on -48 involvement.

My neighbor has five cabins he rents to people coming up to hunt and fish and makes a decent living doing so. So go tell him that he can only rent them to Alaskan residents, or tell the restaurant owner down the street that they are going to have to find a way to stay in business without the fishermen and hunters. This place would be a ghetto in short order if only Alaskan citizens had access to the fish.

The commercial fishing industry is a community in it's own right and not much is ever said about state boundaries...financially and culturally, SE Alaska is closer to Washington than it is to the rest of Alaska. Even our tribal headquarters are in WA.

Yeah, sometimes it bothers me when I'm rattling around in my fish truck worrying about how to pay the next repair bill while trying to keep one of the last family owned processors alive...that especially hit home when I was broke down by the side of the road with a truckload of King salmon that had been flown in from Sitka...no cell phone reception, no traffic going by. I could have sat in the truck and cried ..which I actually did for about five minutes. Then I got to work getting that fish home and while I was doing so, the Trident Lear jet flew right over me.

The dust is starting to settle and the numbers are coming in. It's been the biggest money year in SE Alaskan history.

And we all had a part in that, from the high school kids who had their first job here this summer to the seiners's who've been fishing these waters for generations, the waiters/waitresses and the other workers in the local restaurants, the innkeepers, the charter guys, the workers in the grocery stores, the gas station people, the airlines and the Alaska Marine Highway...and anyone I've left out.

We pulled it off. And we did so without any state vs state bs.

Because we're all in it together. I'll go home to Oregon soon and I'll be damned happy to be there. The lodges will close and most of the seiners have already gone to Washington waters (including Alaskan permit holders). Some of the restaurants will close for at least part of the winter and many of the other local businesses will lay people off or even close for the season.

But Fish and Game is tentatively predicting an even bigger run for next year.

And we'll be back.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
6,283 posts, read 10,886,103 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metlakatla View Post
Some of the restaurants will close for at least part of the winter and many of the other local businesses will lay people off or even close for the season.

But Fish and Game is tentatively predicting an even bigger run for next year.

And we'll be back.
Now, tell us how you propose to put people in western Alaska back to work? Especially in areas where the unemployment rate is over 25% year round. Or is it that same old attitude, "I got mine, **** on everyone else". Pebble would provide year round jobs for an area of the State of Alaska where people live in poverty. You can go back to the fair weather of Oregon. These people live here year round.
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Old 09-16-2011, 12:48 AM
 
18,999 posts, read 24,517,429 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stiffnecked View Post
Now, tell us how you propose to put people in western Alaska back to work? Especially in areas where the unemployment rate is over 25% year round. Or is it that same old attitude, "I got mine, **** on everyone else". Pebble would provide year round jobs for an area of the State of Alaska where people live in poverty. You can go back to the fair weather of Oregon. These people live here year round.

The unemployment rate in Bristol and in other parts of Alaska is deceptive. The area has a lot of seasonal workers that all apply for benefits when the season ends...kind of like what you used to do in Ketchikan, doing tours or whatever.

The seasonal workers leave Alaska, apply for UI, and that brings up the unemployment rate. The seasonals who remain often do the same thing, most often by design. It's kind of the way things go in the North...cram as much work as possible into the summer months; it's part of the rhythym of life in Northern latitudes.

We have a high unemployment rate here on POW as well. Funny thing is is that local businesses are often crying for help. Anyone who wants to work year round here can certainly do so. My seasonal employees are constantly being approached by other businesses wanting them to work for the winter.

As far as putting people in Western Alaska "back to work"...in what way have they been displaced?

The Pebble Mine may provide jobs all right, but the jobs for the most part won't go to locals.

And...if it were a matter of me having "mine"...I'd be all for the Pebble Mine. The runs in Bristol don't affect ours. The best thing that could happen to me financially would be if Bristol were out of the picture.

If that ever comes to pass, SE Alaskan salmon will sky rocket even more in price. I have every selfish reason in the world for wanting the Pebble project to come to fruition. If the runs in Bristol die...I'll be the one riding around in a Lear.

But yet I'm against it as of yet. It ain't all about loot, Stiff.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:02 PM
 
18,999 posts, read 24,517,429 times
Reputation: 10421
By the way..about 23 percent of the limited entry permits are held by non Alaskan residents.

The numbers of rural Alaskans holding permits has declined in recent years. The reason for that...is that they've moved out of state, yet continue to hold their permits and to use them. I know a lot of them...they all come from families that built this place, some of them work the same boats that their fathers and grandfathers fished. One in particular donates enough salmon to the school in Hydaburg that the children have it on their lunch menu about once a week. They're hardly carpetbaggers.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,852 posts, read 18,381,051 times
Reputation: 6446
Alaskan resources belong only to Alaskans, according to the Alaska State Constitution. Not lower-48ers. If you move out of the State, your fishing permit should be automatically forfeit, returned to the State, and auctioned to another Alaskan resident.

Non-Alaskan commercial fisheries should only be able to obtain permits if all the permits have not been awarded to other Alaskan residents, and that permit should only be valid for the one season.
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:48 AM
 
18,999 posts, read 24,517,429 times
Reputation: 10421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
Alaskan resources belong only to Alaskans, according to the Alaska State Constitution. Not lower-48ers. If you move out of the State, your fishing permit should be automatically forfeit, returned to the State, and auctioned to another Alaskan resident.

Non-Alaskan commercial fisheries should only be able to obtain permits if all the permits have not been awarded to other Alaskan residents, and that permit should only be valid for the one season.
Alaskan residents aren't exactly lining up for permits, sorry.

And I'm sure that the resident permit holders would squeal to beat the band if they were told that they couldn't fish in WA waters simply because they're Alaskan residents. It works both ways....they run down to WA this time of year.

Again, Alaska and Washington are so intertwined that restrictions of the type that you suggest would be detrimental to us all.

The west coast salmon industry is not state specific and never has been. It's a very healthy industry, providing jobs and income for a lot of residents...but those jobs and income wouldn't exist if it weren't for the Seattle/Ballard connection.

And that's just commercial fishing...sports fishing...that's about 98% of state loot and almost all of that money stays in state.

We all live in the United States and we're all interdependent on each to any extent. At least the salmon industry. for the most part, is specific to the PNW. The Pebble Mine project traces back to other countries, mainly Britain and Canada.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:27 PM
 
Location: 112 Ocean Avenue
5,706 posts, read 7,445,939 times
Reputation: 8846
Alaska voters weighing in: salmon vs. gold

The battle over a copper and gold mine near one of the world's premiere salmon fisheries is headed to the ballot in a vote next week that has turned a normally sleepy local election into a national environmental debate.

The mine would be directly above Iliamna Lake, the largest producer of sockeye salmon in the world.

Alaska voters weighing in: salmon vs. gold - US news - msnbc.com (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44747960/ns/us_news/ - broken link)

One day the wildlife of Alaska is going to figure out a way to get rid of all the minerals in Alaska so they call live happily ever after.
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