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Old 08-25-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Fairbanks, AK
1,479 posts, read 1,160,852 times
Reputation: 1122

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Leave it where it is, let the people who want try to find it. It's their choice what to do with their lives. It is the choice of our rescue workers to what they want with theirs. Can you say nanny state mentality? Sure, I knew you could.
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Old 08-25-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,271 posts, read 7,924,089 times
Reputation: 3193
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stimestar View Post
Leave it where it is, let the people who want try to find it. It's their choice what to do with their lives. It is the choice of our rescue workers to what they want with theirs. Can you say nanny state mentality? Sure, I knew you could.


I don't have any issue with leaving the bus there, nor with people going back to see it. What I have issue with is those that go back there and then have to be saved because of their inability to be prepared.

They should bear the cost to rescue them, not the taxpayer.
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,862 posts, read 11,566,995 times
Reputation: 6292
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
I don't have any issue with leaving the bus there, nor with people going back to see it. What I have issue with is those that go back there and then have to be saved because of their inability to be prepared.

They should bear the cost to rescue them, not the taxpayer.
Back in the 1990s we began charging people who wanted to climb Denali "rescue insurance" because we were tired of Alaskans paying on average $65,000 per rescue.

I think we should extend that requirement to any non-Alaskan resident who wants to spend more than 24 hours off the road system. They have to state their destination, when they plan on returning, and pay a small fee that includes their "rescue insurance" coverage.

This was common practice in lower-48 National Parks back in the 1960s and 1970s, except for the insurance and fees. If you wanted to travel into the backwoods of say Yellowstone or Glacier National Park, you had to file a trip ticket with the Park Rangers. The duration of your trip into the wilderness was typically determined by the Park Rangers. If you looked well equipped and had sufficient experience, they would let you stay as long as you wanted. However, I have seen them limit people to anywhere from one to three days trips into the back country, because they did not think those backpackers had the necessary experience or were adequately prepared.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:20 PM
 
49 posts, read 48,179 times
Reputation: 48
Just to let you all know...my 18-year-old son and three other seasonal workers just returned from a successful 3-day trip to the bus. My son has not read the book nor seen the movie. He just kept hearing about this "bus" that everyone kept talking about and how difficult it was to get there.

Now, even though we are from the deep south, I have been a Cub Scout Den Leader and a Boy Scout Assistant Scoutmaster. As a single mom, my two boys and I have camped and hiked extensively ever since they were small children. I, myself, have taken a 2-week long wilderness survival training course...but yes, it was in a much warmer climate.

With all of this being said, he has prepared for this trip since around the second week he arrived here this summer. He has hiked nearly ever trail surrounding us including many within DNP. He and his friends obtained a topographical map from the Backcountry Information Center, planned their preliminary route, made a detailed plan as to where they would camp each night, and their expected time of return. They shared this information with me as well as several other people. As a group they had also made an extensive list as to the equipment they would possibly need and discussed several ways of how they were hoping to cross the Tek. All four that decided to make this trek was a skilled hiker and backpacker. They had also made a decision ahead of time that if any of them felt uncomfortable crossing the river they would not take any chances and would turn around together. Initially, there was one girl who had very little experience hiking, let alone camping. She was trim and fit but very naive and became fairly frustrated when we initially voiced our concerns about her going. Thankfully, at the last moment, the four of them made a group decision to tell her she would have to stay behind because they were not comfortable about her abilities and safety.

The group arrived back approximately two hours ahead of their expected time of return, tired but exhilarated. Now, let the bashing begin...
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,964 posts, read 7,122,081 times
Reputation: 3064
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbear View Post
Just to let you all know...my 18-year-old son and three other seasonal workers just returned from a successful 3-day trip to the bus. My son has not read the book nor seen the movie. He just kept hearing about this "bus" that everyone kept talking about and how difficult it was to get there.

Now, even though we are from the deep south, I have been a Cub Scout Den Leader and a Boy Scout Assistant Scoutmaster. As a single mom, my two boys and I have camped and hiked extensively ever since they were small children. I, myself, have taken a 2-week long wilderness survival training course...but yes, it was in a much warmer climate.

With all of this being said, he has prepared for this trip since around the second week he arrived here this summer. He has hiked nearly ever trail surrounding us including many within DNP. He and his friends obtained a topographical map from the Backcountry Information Center, planned their preliminary route, made a detailed plan as to where they would camp each night, and their expected time of return. They shared this information with me as well as several other people. As a group they had also made an extensive list as to the equipment they would possibly need and discussed several ways of how they were hoping to cross the Tek. All four that decided to make this trek was a skilled hiker and backpacker. They had also made a decision ahead of time that if any of them felt uncomfortable crossing the river they would not take any chances and would turn around together. Initially, there was one girl who had very little experience hiking, let alone camping. She was trim and fit but very naive and became fairly frustrated when we initially voiced our concerns about her going. Thankfully, at the last moment, the four of them made a group decision to tell her she would have to stay behind because they were not comfortable about her abilities and safety.

The group arrived back approximately two hours ahead of their expected time of return, tired but exhilarated. Now, let the bashing begin...
What bashing?? Sounds as if it was a well-thought out and planned trek.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:36 PM
 
161 posts, read 132,443 times
Reputation: 111
I don't think anyone is going to bash you. The people who go out there unprepared and then have to be rescued are the ones that the members on here get upset about. I think it also bothers them that a lot of the people who go out to see the bus view McCandless as some sort of hero...when in fact he was the opposite. The movie certainly glorified his actions...which is unfortunate because they got him killed. I saw a picture of McCandless that he had taken of himself probably days before his death...he literally looked like a skeleton. I'm surprised he could even stand up. It was awful. They didn't show that pic in the movie.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Interior alaska
6,271 posts, read 7,924,089 times
Reputation: 3193
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbear View Post
.

With all of this being said, he has prepared for this trip since around the second week he arrived here this summer. He has hiked nearly ever trail surrounding us including many within DNP. He and his friends obtained a topographical map from the Backcountry Information Center, planned their preliminary route, made a detailed plan as to where they would camp each night, and their expected time of return. They shared this information with me as well as several other people. As a group they had also made an extensive list as to the equipment they would possibly need and discussed several ways of how they were hoping to cross the Tek.

Your key words were "He Prepared", that hadn't been the case for most of those that had to be rescued or died trying.

Good for him! And you!

Hundreds of people have gone out there including myself before McCandless went there and died. They, nor I, have had any problems with the trip or multiple trips there.

But there are those that saw the movie or read the book and figured that if he could make it there, so could they... He died there.

Alaska is very unforgiving to "Stupid", clearly you son was ready to go there and back! I hope he got a lot of good photos that maybe he can post.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Fairbanks, AK
1,479 posts, read 1,160,852 times
Reputation: 1122
Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite9 View Post
I don't have any issue with leaving the bus there, nor with people going back to see it. What I have issue with is those that go back there and then have to be saved because of their inability to be prepared.

They should bear the cost to rescue them, not the taxpayer.
I certainly understand this. It does suck that we have to pay for the rescue of idiots. I am really, really not arguing that fact. But I do feel that I have to weigh that against asking for more government into our lives, ruling where we can and can not go, measuring us against some arbitrary standard; set by who?
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:50 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,862 posts, read 11,566,995 times
Reputation: 6292
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonbear View Post
Just to let you all know...my 18-year-old son and three other seasonal workers just returned from a successful 3-day trip to the bus. My son has not read the book nor seen the movie. He just kept hearing about this "bus" that everyone kept talking about and how difficult it was to get there.

Now, even though we are from the deep south, I have been a Cub Scout Den Leader and a Boy Scout Assistant Scoutmaster. As a single mom, my two boys and I have camped and hiked extensively ever since they were small children. I, myself, have taken a 2-week long wilderness survival training course...but yes, it was in a much warmer climate.

With all of this being said, he has prepared for this trip since around the second week he arrived here this summer. He has hiked nearly ever trail surrounding us including many within DNP. He and his friends obtained a topographical map from the Backcountry Information Center, planned their preliminary route, made a detailed plan as to where they would camp each night, and their expected time of return. They shared this information with me as well as several other people. As a group they had also made an extensive list as to the equipment they would possibly need and discussed several ways of how they were hoping to cross the Tek. All four that decided to make this trek was a skilled hiker and backpacker. They had also made a decision ahead of time that if any of them felt uncomfortable crossing the river they would not take any chances and would turn around together. Initially, there was one girl who had very little experience hiking, let alone camping. She was trim and fit but very naive and became fairly frustrated when we initially voiced our concerns about her going. Thankfully, at the last moment, the four of them made a group decision to tell her she would have to stay behind because they were not comfortable about her abilities and safety.

The group arrived back approximately two hours ahead of their expected time of return, tired but exhilarated. Now, let the bashing begin...
I agree with Alaskapat528 and EllaRose. It sounds to me like your son and his three friends were well prepared and experienced. The very fact that they felt uncomfortable taking someone with less experience than they, tells me that they understood the possible difficulties they may encounter.

I do not think anyone has any objections with people hiking into the Alaskan bush, providing, of course, that they know what they are doing and are reasonably well prepared. The objections I have, and have read others post, is when some Yahoo that has never camped outside of a designated campsite in a campground wants to take his "day-back" for a week excursion into the bush. And I would not even mind that, if we did not have to pay for their rescue.

At least Chris McCandless had the common deceny to starve to death, rather than put Alaskans to any major expense rescuing his sorry ass.
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,862 posts, read 11,566,995 times
Reputation: 6292
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stimestar View Post
I certainly understand this. It does suck that we have to pay for the rescue of idiots. I am really, really not arguing that fact. But I do feel that I have to weigh that against asking for more government into our lives, ruling where we can and can not go, measuring us against some arbitrary standard; set by who?
When people are too stupid to figure it out for themselves, someone needs to tell them that if they attempt to go where they want they will most likely die. I certainly would not stop them from going, if they wanted, I would simply inform them that they are dead-men/women walking, and ensure they had sufficient funds to pay for their own rescue/funeral.
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